OK! OK! I will do a 2nd run of M6-R's
- Thread starter js
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Jim, remember the advice I gave you when you were trying to decide about making battery chargers. Do the design work and let the people who do these things for a living handle the build! Do only the final assembly or whatever is necessary for the unique product. Your design is what we want and is not available any place else. Yes, it may cost us a little more, but we get it much faster and you lower your stress levels back to normal.
andrewwynn
Flashlight Enthusiast
i agree with starlight.
-awr
-awr
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
All of this is fine for the 2nd run, and for the most part I am favorably inclined towards the suggestions made. For example, if at all possible, I will have the packs be welded packs, made up by another company. And I will have the LVR boards customized a bit more to make things easier on me. And I can have the copper end caps made by another company.
However, none of this has anything to do with the 1st run for several very important reasons:
1. I already have all the LVR's and they are the way they are, so I'm locked in to remote mounting the FET with lead wires.
2. I already have all the 2/3A cells striped of their insulation, and prepped for end-to-end soldering. Or are already waiting for final assembly in the form of completed bare packs.
3. I WILL ONLY SELL PACKS CONFIGURED LIKE THE ONES THAT WERE FIELD TESTED. This is important. I am conservative by nature, and I have seen way too many instances of Murphy's laws in action. I simply will not change horses mid-stream. Willie offered to change the PCB back before I ordered the LVR's for the production run. I had the chance. But I didn't do it, because I was worried about whether or not he would get it right, and what it would imply for construction and longevity. Quite simply, it hadn't been field tested, and thus I wasn't going to go changing it.
I have one rule, and one rule only: make the highest quality, most reliable item I possibly can, everything else is secondary.
Each M6-R pack has its own number and label. Each one feels to me like a work of art, like something I am justly proud of. I am a craftsman at heart. I am inordinately proud of every single thing I send out to people. If I'm not, I don't send it out. Period.
I got out of piano tuning, repair, and rebuilding as a living because the pressures of earning enough money undercut my very strong principles about doing only good work, no matter what. I simply will not allow the same thing to happen to my flashlight hobby. I want to earn money, at least $4 or $5 an hour plus expenses, but mostly I want to do good work, and to have people appreciate my work. If that means I can't meet demand, so be it. Obviously someone else can step in and try to meet the demand, too. AWR can sell a ton of simplified and streamlined rechargeable M6 packs if he wants. I have no problem with him selling them, or people buying them. But I will not downgrade a single thing about my M6-R packs. Not one. If there is something inferior or lower quality about using welded packs, I won't, although I can't think what the problem would be. I expect I will be using welded packs for the 2nd run almost for sure. But I'm not going to use 4 oz PCB material for the end caps (!!!). No way. The LOTC springs will rip that up but good in no time.
I won't be changing anything essential about the way I put the 1st run M6-R packs together. I have already streamlined and assembly-lined as much of the build process as I can.
I'm happy to hear suggestions--although they are probably best saved until after I post my construction details thread. But I don't want to get into any arguments about changing the 1st run packs. I have said two or three times already that if anyone is tired of waiting that I will refund their money (if they have paid--there was no requirement to pay early) and/or release them from their signup commitment.
Once this is all over and I've had a bit of time to recover, I won't remember how grueling it was, but only how pleased I was with the results, and how happy the people were who recieved my stuff. I aspire to having my name on something guarantee quality. I'm obviously not in the same leauge as tvodrd, but that's what I aspire to. I want to make good stuff.
However, none of this has anything to do with the 1st run for several very important reasons:
1. I already have all the LVR's and they are the way they are, so I'm locked in to remote mounting the FET with lead wires.
2. I already have all the 2/3A cells striped of their insulation, and prepped for end-to-end soldering. Or are already waiting for final assembly in the form of completed bare packs.
3. I WILL ONLY SELL PACKS CONFIGURED LIKE THE ONES THAT WERE FIELD TESTED. This is important. I am conservative by nature, and I have seen way too many instances of Murphy's laws in action. I simply will not change horses mid-stream. Willie offered to change the PCB back before I ordered the LVR's for the production run. I had the chance. But I didn't do it, because I was worried about whether or not he would get it right, and what it would imply for construction and longevity. Quite simply, it hadn't been field tested, and thus I wasn't going to go changing it.
I have one rule, and one rule only: make the highest quality, most reliable item I possibly can, everything else is secondary.
Each M6-R pack has its own number and label. Each one feels to me like a work of art, like something I am justly proud of. I am a craftsman at heart. I am inordinately proud of every single thing I send out to people. If I'm not, I don't send it out. Period.
I got out of piano tuning, repair, and rebuilding as a living because the pressures of earning enough money undercut my very strong principles about doing only good work, no matter what. I simply will not allow the same thing to happen to my flashlight hobby. I want to earn money, at least $4 or $5 an hour plus expenses, but mostly I want to do good work, and to have people appreciate my work. If that means I can't meet demand, so be it. Obviously someone else can step in and try to meet the demand, too. AWR can sell a ton of simplified and streamlined rechargeable M6 packs if he wants. I have no problem with him selling them, or people buying them. But I will not downgrade a single thing about my M6-R packs. Not one. If there is something inferior or lower quality about using welded packs, I won't, although I can't think what the problem would be. I expect I will be using welded packs for the 2nd run almost for sure. But I'm not going to use 4 oz PCB material for the end caps (!!!). No way. The LOTC springs will rip that up but good in no time.
I won't be changing anything essential about the way I put the 1st run M6-R packs together. I have already streamlined and assembly-lined as much of the build process as I can.
I'm happy to hear suggestions--although they are probably best saved until after I post my construction details thread. But I don't want to get into any arguments about changing the 1st run packs. I have said two or three times already that if anyone is tired of waiting that I will refund their money (if they have paid--there was no requirement to pay early) and/or release them from their signup commitment.
Once this is all over and I've had a bit of time to recover, I won't remember how grueling it was, but only how pleased I was with the results, and how happy the people were who recieved my stuff. I aspire to having my name on something guarantee quality. I'm obviously not in the same leauge as tvodrd, but that's what I aspire to. I want to make good stuff.
andrewwynn
Flashlight Enthusiast
All good stuff.. i'm sure we are not talking about any degradation in quality, that would definitely be unacceptable... I think we are just trying to figure out if there is a way other people can help make your job easier to make the same exactly quality product to the same exact specs, just with far less man hours. I think the welded packs really will help in that regard, having the end caps made to your specs but by somebody else, that sort of thing.
Neat how you mention you won't remember how grueling.. so true that is.
you are correct on the neg. end-cap.. a solid plate for the back side sounds like a good requirement with the way the contact works on that light.. with all that surface area i'd bet that a 4oz copper with silver content solder on top would last longer than you'd expect, but there is nothing wrong with over building...
I totally agree with sticking with the program for the first run, most people would not have that attitude but i agree with that philosophy.. doing it right is more important than doing it fast.
-awr
Neat how you mention you won't remember how grueling.. so true that is.
you are correct on the neg. end-cap.. a solid plate for the back side sounds like a good requirement with the way the contact works on that light.. with all that surface area i'd bet that a 4oz copper with silver content solder on top would last longer than you'd expect, but there is nothing wrong with over building...
I totally agree with sticking with the program for the first run, most people would not have that attitude but i agree with that philosophy.. doing it right is more important than doing it fast.
-awr
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm canceling the 2nd run. When I finish with the 1st run and the USL projects, I'm done. I'm truly sorry that I won't be able to provide those who want rechargeable M6's with M6-R packs, but there are a number of other choices in the offing.
Most recently, Lunarmodule has a good idea going (and there were similar ideas before this thread) with his R123's and FM holder: See it here
You guys can get FM to make up holders and be all set, for cheaper. And he'll get it done on schedule, and FAST.
Or get AWR to do something. Or whatever.
In any case, I just do not, at all, want to commit to another round of this. No more. I'll be emailing everyone on the Notify list sometime next week.
Most recently, Lunarmodule has a good idea going (and there were similar ideas before this thread) with his R123's and FM holder: See it here
You guys can get FM to make up holders and be all set, for cheaper. And he'll get it done on schedule, and FAST.
Or get AWR to do something. Or whatever.
In any case, I just do not, at all, want to commit to another round of this. No more. I'll be emailing everyone on the Notify list sometime next week.
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Jim,
I can understand your desire (probably a burning need) to get out from under what has been a tedious, skill intensive process. I would guess that the first few were fun and challenging but can see how that original excitement would turn to drugery.
I'm glad to see that you're encouraging others to take up the challenge. It seems that the job at this point has evolved into one of applying mass-production techniques to the task. That makes it a different kind of problem, in my view, and I know that we have CPFers who enjoy finding solutions of that sort.
I hope you'll be up to sharing what you have learned with these folks. In fact, it would be good to pass that information on to pack owners as well. I got to thinking the other day about what I'll do when the cells in my pack wear out. They won't last forever, and I'll want to replace them. And then I began to wonder about the circuitry and other odds and ends involved in such a replacement. For example, what size shrink wrap would I use to seal the pack after cell replacement. I was considering asking you for a parts list.
Hmm. I'm rambling. I don't know how I could help, but if you could use some assistance in organizing an information package, feel free to send a PM. Although I'm pretty bad at soldering, I do have some skills in eliciting, organizing, and formally presenting information.
So, I think you've made a wise choice. Losing sleep over completing yet another round of packs could not possibly be good for your health and peace of mind.
Paul
I can understand your desire (probably a burning need) to get out from under what has been a tedious, skill intensive process. I would guess that the first few were fun and challenging but can see how that original excitement would turn to drugery.
I'm glad to see that you're encouraging others to take up the challenge. It seems that the job at this point has evolved into one of applying mass-production techniques to the task. That makes it a different kind of problem, in my view, and I know that we have CPFers who enjoy finding solutions of that sort.
I hope you'll be up to sharing what you have learned with these folks. In fact, it would be good to pass that information on to pack owners as well. I got to thinking the other day about what I'll do when the cells in my pack wear out. They won't last forever, and I'll want to replace them. And then I began to wonder about the circuitry and other odds and ends involved in such a replacement. For example, what size shrink wrap would I use to seal the pack after cell replacement. I was considering asking you for a parts list.
Hmm. I'm rambling. I don't know how I could help, but if you could use some assistance in organizing an information package, feel free to send a PM. Although I'm pretty bad at soldering, I do have some skills in eliciting, organizing, and formally presenting information.
So, I think you've made a wise choice. Losing sleep over completing yet another round of packs could not possibly be good for your health and peace of mind.
Paul
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Jim - I know that building packs is outside of my own skills, but I do know how to get items mass produced and maintain quality, as do others.
Perhaps you can find someone who is willing to license the information from you and put the concept into production. I am open to that discussion.
Perhaps you can find someone who is willing to license the information from you and put the concept into production. I am open to that discussion.
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
I'm not speaking for Jim, but mass production is not what this is about.
AT MOST, there maybe is call for another 100 packs or so, setting up any type of production line is not likely to be a challenge anyone who does mass production is going to be enthused about, not to mention that Willie Hunt is going to be very reluctant to allow someone besides Jim to even buy them.
I don't think that there are many options for having more built with the Willie Hunt regulator.
Bill
AT MOST, there maybe is call for another 100 packs or so, setting up any type of production line is not likely to be a challenge anyone who does mass production is going to be enthused about, not to mention that Willie Hunt is going to be very reluctant to allow someone besides Jim to even buy them.
I don't think that there are many options for having more built with the Willie Hunt regulator.
Bill
HarryN
Flashlight Enthusiast
Hi Bill. Just an FYI, Willie Hunt is not the only one who offers a PWM or other types of voltage controllers, he is just the most famous in the forum. I truly wish JS would continue making these packs, even though I don't (yet) own an M6. I also understand the strain of this kind of build challenge. I have offered to help before, and that offer is still open. This was just "another offer" in a different way in an attempt to take some strain off of JS.
bwaites
Flashlight Enthusiast
HarryN,
I understand that Willie is not the only game in town, but it is the only one Jim has used, so he will be understandably reluctant to consider another provider or recommend any other parts besides the ones he has used.
If nothing else, Jim is a perfectionist who will ONLY recommend and build the very best.
Nevertheless, I too wish that more would be built, and hope someone will come up with the right options to do so.
I also suspect that Jim is tired of listening to all the people who malign the M6 as too expensive. It is too expensive for those who don't want to pay for the best available light of it's type, but it isn't for those of us who recognize that it is the "top of the food chain" so to speak, when it comes to production based lights.
Anyone can build brighter lights, (even me) but no production light I've seen comes close in all the things that the M6 is so good at!!
Bill
I understand that Willie is not the only game in town, but it is the only one Jim has used, so he will be understandably reluctant to consider another provider or recommend any other parts besides the ones he has used.
If nothing else, Jim is a perfectionist who will ONLY recommend and build the very best.
Nevertheless, I too wish that more would be built, and hope someone will come up with the right options to do so.
I also suspect that Jim is tired of listening to all the people who malign the M6 as too expensive. It is too expensive for those who don't want to pay for the best available light of it's type, but it isn't for those of us who recognize that it is the "top of the food chain" so to speak, when it comes to production based lights.
Anyone can build brighter lights, (even me) but no production light I've seen comes close in all the things that the M6 is so good at!!
Bill
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Right on, Bill.
js
Flashlight Enthusiast
PaulW,
Once you're in, you're in. I will continue to support my mods for as long as needed. If your cells wear out, you send the pack back to me, and I will install the regulator and end caps on a new battery pack and re-shrinkwrap everything.
I stand behind what I sell. Just ask any of the people who own my TL mods.
I won't ever get rid of my jigs and equipment and materials necessary to maintain my mods. The pictures in my threads won't suddenly go away. I will always be available to answer questions or provide service to those people who own my stuff.
No worries.
Once you're in, you're in. I will continue to support my mods for as long as needed. If your cells wear out, you send the pack back to me, and I will install the regulator and end caps on a new battery pack and re-shrinkwrap everything.
I stand behind what I sell. Just ask any of the people who own my TL mods.
I won't ever get rid of my jigs and equipment and materials necessary to maintain my mods. The pictures in my threads won't suddenly go away. I will always be available to answer questions or provide service to those people who own my stuff.
No worries.
PaulW
Flashlight Enthusiast
Now that's a surprise. I had no idea you would be willing to do that. IMO, that's going way beyond the norm or what might be expected.
I was not worried. I had just assumed that I would simply replace the cells when needed. But thanks for the reassurances. This is a good time of the year to feel comfy.
Paul
I was not worried. I had just assumed that I would simply replace the cells when needed. But thanks for the reassurances. This is a good time of the year to feel comfy.
Paul
Leef
Enlightened
Who are "FM" and "AWR" you refer to as to making rechargeable M6 kits?:thanks:
wquiles
Flashaholic
FM - fivemega. Go to the Group Buys subforum and you will find plenty of excellent offerings from him.
AWR - Andrew Wynn. Designer of the nano lights, and many other things, including most recently the incandecent regulators
Will
AWR - Andrew Wynn. Designer of the nano lights, and many other things, including most recently the incandecent regulators
Will
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js
Flashlight Enthusiast
For those who wanted one, now is the time to get your hands on one of Willie Hunt's LVR3I pulse width modulated regulators. B/S/T thread is up and running.
