Poll: Would this bother you?

[Lebkuecher]

I think the bottom line to all of this is that for now anyway if you want to buy a Arc LS then expect it to have a stripe. For most people I don’t think it will be an issue if they know up front. It’s all about setting expectations. The only thing that I might suggest to Peter, in the future if you know that something like this happening then let the people know.

 

[javafool]

If you are talking about HAII coating, you ARE by definition talking about utility. That is what a HAIII coating is!

 

[McGizmo]

If I have followed this correctly, it sounds that the clear anodizing is showing regions of variation in density of the material. This is a cosmetic signal or indicator of the density of the substrate. This has happened with extruded tube stock. Presumably the variation in density is not enough to compromise the structural properties of the part. To the best of my knowledge, these variations in density will not be manifest, at least in a symetrical pattern like this, if the parts are machined from solid bar stock. This is in keeping with Peter's statement but it seems others have seen these stripes in the body of an AAA that is machined from solid bar?? Is this true?? IF these stripes are the result of clear anodizing of tube stock, I suggest either going to solid bar stock or changing the anodize to black. (not that anyone asked for my opinion /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

 

[IlluminatingBikr]

[ QUOTE ]
luxlover said:
[ QUOTE ]
IlluminatingBikr said:
I am not too happy. An LSH-S arrived at my house, so I was already expecting something other than the best tint/brightness. I was expecting it to look perfect though. It doesn't; it has three dark stripes down the sides.

What would be a LSH-S second? A light that completely doesn't function, or didn't get anodized at all?

It seems that if you classify my light as a first, there isn't much that can be a second. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I like the way your mind works, Aaron! Do you think Peter will?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Arc was the best. I was under the impression that is was THE ABSOLUTE BEST there is. When that LSH-S arrived at my door, I was very excited!

Now I'm not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

This is all $80 can get me from Arc? Dark lines down the side? The tint isn't great either, but at least I was prepared for that because it is a standard, not a premium. But it is a first, not a second, so why should it have three dark lines down the side of the whole light? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif

My dad's AAA-LE also has a line down the side of it. How come that only my Arc lights have this? No other light I have seen has this. And for this, Arc is the best?

I was thinking about maybe getting a LSH-P someday for my EDC. "Get your foot in the door with Arc" the sale was called, but Arc just got both of my feet out. That LSH-P won't happen now.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif

 

[IlluminatingBikr]

I just thought of something.

Say somebody was selling a LSH-S in B/S/T. They say that it is a first, that it has been used for less than five minutes, comes with a new battery, and has no user-inflicted marks, scratches, etc. You buy the light, for a fair amount of money. It shows up, and you see three lines down the side. Wouldn't you feel like the seller neglected to tell you this, and should have? Wouldn't you feel slightly ripped off? Maybe even lied to, or at least deceived?

I would. I think this is even worse, when it is directly from the manufacturer.

BTW, Peter, what exactly would a LSH-S second be? What classifications do they have to fall into, specifically?

 

[Gransee]

[ QUOTE ]
Lebkuecher said:
I think the bottom line to all of this is that for now anyway if you want to buy a Arc LS then expect it to have a stripe. For most people I don’t think it will be an issue if they know up front. It’s all about setting expectations. The only thing that I might suggest to Peter, in the future if you know that something like this happening then let the people know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point Lebkuecher. I updated the LSH-S, LSH-P and LSHF-P pages with pictures of the flaw so people will know before they purchase.

Peter

 

[Dave Wright]

Peter's lights are expensive because their raw materials are somewhat expensive, they are made in small batches, and their manufacture is labor-intensive. Arc might have sold 10K AAA/AA and 5K LS lights over the last couple years. They employee maybe 10 people. They have overhead, and this isn't a hobby for them. No day jobs to put bread on the table. A lot of subcontractors are involved, which adds pass-through costs. Do the math. They're not laughing off to the bank here. Add a QC department, pump up the packaging, hire a marketing & distribution department, and you'll simply make a marginally justifiable expense even more outrageous.

Peter, IMO your priorities are in the right place. Please keep your focus on innovation, function, and durability.

 

[luxlover]

So, Peter. Why not take the advice of "metalhed?" He makes perfect sense. You would be able to get rid of your stock of thousands of "vroom racing stripe" LSH lights, much faster than trying to sell them at full price after word gets out that there is a major problem. I guarantee you that you will not lose your"skivvies' on the deal, and you would be able to sell the real nice properly anodized LSH lights for full price again, very soon. Is it a deal? Make a "virtual gentleman's agreement" with us........ Shake!

 

[chamenos]

dave: well said /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[carmel]

A new LSH-S I bought for a gift has those precise lines; they don't really bother me, but I'm not sure they should be so pervasive on these lights.

carmel

 

[PluckyPleco]

OK folks,

If anybody feels that the stripes on their unit are unacceptable, I will pay for the postage for you to send the unit(s) to me. You CAN'T accept them (by your own definition) so send them back to Peter for a refund or send them to me.

When the Arc4 becomes the million seller that it is likely to become, I will then auction the special "first and second run 'racing stripe' versions" at great profit.

It isn't a bug, it's a feature!

Plec
(And yes *I* paid full price for one and I couldn't give a rodent's rear-end about the stripe. I would gladly do so again, given the need to buy another one.)

 

[Slaro]

Gransee said, "I updated the LSH-S, LSH-P and LSHF-P pages with pictures of the flaw so people will know before they purchase."

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Peter, you finally did the right thing!/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Too bad he won't call them seconds though. You are going to spend $150.00 on a LSH-P (Premium), even though it isn't really a Premium. It is a second.

 

[LightScene]

Double post deleted.

 

[LightScene]

Without a doubt, this issue should have been revealed to the public by Arc before they sold ANY cosmetically defective lights, whether Premium, First, or Second. The customer should know what to expect before they buy. The fact that the issue was kept hidden, is DISHONESTY, plain and simple, cut-and-dried.

People who are not happy with cosmetic defects can return their lights, but they should be made aware that if they purchase a replacement, they will get the same poor quality.

 

[357]

[ QUOTE ]

Without a doubt, this issue should have been revealed to the public by Arc before they sold ANY cosmetically defective lights, whether Premium, First, or Second. The customer should know what to expect before they buy. The fact that the issue was kept hidden, is DISHONESTY, plain and simple, cut-and-dried.

People who are not happy with cosmetic defects can return their lights, but they should be made aware that if they purchase a replacement, they will get the same poor quality.

[/ QUOTE ]


I think the line looks like horse manure, but OTOH its NOT the end of the world. I could live with those lines on a "second" light--priced in the $50 range. A first (in which you pay over $100 usually) should be as cosmetically perfect as possible. Slight variations in HA tint is one thing (I wouldn't complain at all for normal HA variations), but an ugly as heck huge black line that stands out like a sore thumb is another.

I don't think Arc is dishonest, I think they just are use to customers that are easy to please. Customers that have higher expectations (i.e. wouldn't be happy with obvious QC flaws) for a product that sells for $100 plus seem to be the minority.

Arc is a great company, but how can you blame them for making these firsts when the *majority* of buyers are satisfied with obvious major cosmetic flaws.

Yes, I do think function should go before cosmetics, but for the price of an Arc it seems reasonable to expect both. Arc, the company IMO is very honest and has great customer service. But, until buyers consistently demand cosmetic quality that reflects the price, how can anyone blame Arc for pricing those units as firsts?

Heck, my Maglites (as junky as they are in terms of beam quality) have never had such an ugly cosmetic flaw out of the box. I realize type II HA is easier to apply than type III, but still I think this says something. If a company can sell a flashlight that works and is cosmetically pleasing at around $20, is it *really* unreasonable to expect the same from a $100 plus flashlight? That doesn't mean slight HA variations can't be overlooked, but having a MAJOR and NOTICABLE series of ugly black lines is a far different matter, IMO

As always, this is just an opinion and I acknowledge that not everyone shares it, and I can be wrong. And in addition, everyone sees it differently, and IMO there is no correct way to view it.

And yes, I love Arcs flashlights. I will still buy them often. I'm not even going to return any with that black line (I don't believe in returning products that work but have cosmetic issues), but I still won't be happy if I receive one of those units. I hope this is a temporary setback in this batch, and it doesn't become a long term pattern.

 

[simbad]

Ok, "30 days stisfaction guarantee", means you have a month to see if you can live with those stripes or not, I can, so I forget about, if you don't, just send it back.

 

[IlluminatingBikr]

[ QUOTE ]
LightScene said:
Without a doubt, this issue should have been revealed to the public by Arc before they sold ANY cosmetically defective lights, whether Premium, First, or Second. The customer should know what to expect before they buy. I find it unconscionable that the issue was kept hidden. This is DISHONESTY, plain and simple, cut-and-dried.

People who are not happy with cosmetic defects can return their lights, but they should be made aware that if they purchase a replacement, they will get the same poor quality.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lightscene, I don't think it could have been said better!

I am disappointed, but some people aren't....but it could have been that everybody got what they expected. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif

 

[red_robby]

i think that the CPF members can't really answer this question... we might be biased.
put these lights in a retail store, where the buyer can see
the light before he(or she) throws his money down...
do you really think that "it still works" will make the $150 sale?
COME ON...get real.

 

[spud]

We're meant to be flashoholics, whats the beam like?

I agree though, they should be cosmectically perfect.

 

[BentHeadTX]

Peter,
Is all that aluminum anodized? If not, make mine in HAIII black. My Arc AAA red LED uses that color and it works well.