Preon 2 High CRI vs. Preon 2 Warm... This just in!

[UnknownVT]

"let's kick it up a notch!"
I've put together an interesting set of photos for you all to compare.
...
Whew!

That's a lot of pictures and a fair number of lights.

My impressions: from using them, I still feel like the HDC EDC high CRI is KING for color rendition. I dream of a McGizmo Sundrop to compare (one day, perhaps!) but for now this is my king. However, for different uses, I prefer different lights. My Preon 2 Warm (which, some have noted, may be more towards white/neutral than other units) is my favorite light for looking at skin and mucous membranes. It brings out the erythemas of vital tissue like no other, and it's beam profile suits me well. For reading and close work, my H501w from Zebralight is amazing and my go-to light. I love my H51c and the high CRI is great and the tint is great, but for the way I personally use a headlamp, it's harder for me given the beam profile... I think that when the H502w comes out (with an XM-L!), that may finally move the H501w over...

Thank you guys and I can't wait to hear thoughts!

First thank you Apple for your sterling efforts.

Using the fixed Daylight white balance was very helpful for us to see in "reference" to "daylight".

So one can see this run of 4Sevens High CRI are Warm Whites -
probably around 3200K or just a shade cooler (but not much) the variance we're seeing when compared to the previous (1st gen) 4Sevens Warm white could easily be within a single bin.

CRI is not that simple to understand - and I claim no expertise in it -
However CRI is always in reference to a "black body" radiator of the same color temperature - so for a cool white or a white that approximates to sunlight - those would be compared to the "black body" of actual "Daylight" or "Sunlight" - this is not as easy as it sounds since those are nature and can easily vary from day to day and season to season - so the CIE has developed standard "whites" of D65 (normally called daylight at 6500K) and D50 (@ 5000K which is actually a shade warmer than noonday sun only (no sky) which is normally regarded as 5500K).

Artificial light - at one time the most prevalent household lighting was/is tungsten light - about 2700K - just from this color temperature alone one knows this has to be significantly warmer tint/color than daylight or sunlight.

However the BIG trick for CRI for artificial light - is the approx black body for tungsten lighting is actually the tungsten light itself - so by definition a tungsten light bulb has CRI=100.

Yet just about everybody knows that it is very hard if not impossible to read certain shades of yellow printing on white and really difficult to distinguish navy from black (try picking these socks in household lighting).

So what's the value/worth of CRI in this instance -
well we can say if a light renders color the same way or how much it deviates from a tungsten bulb....

OK....
is that worth anything?

In Apple's case for medical type application - perhaps because traditional inspection lights have just about all been tungsten based - so a light that approximates to tungsten is "good" -

BUT think on this what if a light emphasized certain color like reds and orange - so that certain anomalies get highlighted/emphasized by the light may be better for that type of inspection - but since that would deviate from a tungsten light, the CRI by definition would be lower, and could actually be abysmal - yet I would think it may actually be more useful than a High CRI warm white that approximates to tungsten (to get the High CRI).

Take another rather silly example just to illustrate my point - - UV dye detection - we will not see these under and normal light even with high CRI - yet using UV rich light - like some blue LEDs will make these visible - so which light do we actually see the UV dyes better with - obviously the UV rich light - but these will have CRI probably in the single digits - ie: pretty awful CRI......

Ah! I hear you all argue this is a silly example and taking a specialized case -
As far as I know medical practice is specialized, being able to see skin/flesh anomalies is a specialized study - most of us lay-people do not go round looking for those, with or without flashlights - so if a flashlight was designed and wavelengths tuned to highlight or emphasize those anomalies - I would bet their CRI would not be that good.......
so much for High CRI -


So as far I am concerned CRI is just not too well understood -
we are also too enamored with numbers - a CRI=100 may not always be "perfect" -
if it were why can't we see yellow print on white
or pick navy from black under a light that is rated CRI=100?

 

[ryxlyx]

Amazing pics Applevision! Thank you! :twothumbs

From the comparison, the WW appears to be pretty angry yellow looking, while the new HCRI looks quite balanced and smooth in its tint. If the HCRI I get looks like that I think i will be VERY happy with it. :thumbsup:

A quick question though, how is the tint shift when using lower modes and what about the spill tint? These two things have been pretty big problems for me with 4sevens lights. Because with the tint shift the light may look awesome in max mode, but then as I cycle down through the modes the tint becomes unappealing and different as it has shifted cooler or warmer in tint. And the other thing is the inconstancy in the spill/hotspot in most 4sevens lights, I often find that the hotspot is a perfect tint, but the the spill is so vastly different in tint that it can ruin the entire light.

Likewise my interest-- ML and Low, how does it look? And thanks for the observations--

 

[applevision]

Amazing pics Applevision! Thank you! :twothumbs

From the comparison, the WW appears to be pretty angry yellow looking, while the new HCRI looks quite balanced and smooth in its tint. If the HCRI I get looks like that I think i will be VERY happy with it. :thumbsup:

A quick question though, how is the tint shift when using lower modes and what about the spill tint? These two things have been pretty big problems for me with 4sevens lights. Because with the tint shift the light may look awesome in max mode, but then as I cycle down through the modes the tint becomes unappealing and different as it has shifted cooler or warmer in tint. And the other thing is the inconstancy in the spill/hotspot in most 4sevens lights, I often find that the hotspot is a perfect tint, but the the spill is so vastly different in tint that it can ruin the entire light.

Thank you! I agree: looking at these photos, the WW does appear more yellow-brown. I think these do match up well with what I'm seeing, it's just that when you look at stuff directly without comparing and without looking at the beam itself, the warm white really does please my eye!

I do think that the High CRI tint is gorgeous, however!

Okay, as for lower modes and spill... I am playing with it a bit right now, and I do see what you mean. What's hard is that as we go low, we have less light, so it's weird: my perception of color seems diminished. I presume this has something to do with rods and cones as well, but I'll stick to the skin. But, I'd say that it is not dramatic in any way--it seems very consistent even at low power.

As for the spill, it is slightly different, but still seems very good to me. There is a pretty gentle transition between spot and spill, and the spot is just less than 1/3rd of the total spill--very pleasing, I would say.

I hope that helps!

First thank you Apple for your sterling efforts.

CRI is not that simple to understand - and I claim no expertise in it -
However CRI is always in reference to a "black body" radiator of the same color temperature - so for a cool white or a white that approximates to sunlight - those would be compared to the "black body" of actual "Daylight" or "Sunlight" - this is not as easy as it sounds since those are nature and can easily vary from day to day and season to season - so the CIE has developed standard "whites" of D65 (normally called daylight at 6500K) and D50 (@ 5000K which is actually a shade warmer than noonday sun only (no sky) which is normally regarded as 5500K).

...

In Apple's case for medical type application - perhaps because traditional inspection lights have just about all been tungsten based - so a light that approximates to tungsten is "good" -

...

So as far I am concerned CRI is just not too well understood -
we are also too enamored with numbers - a CRI=100 may not always be "perfect" -
if it were why can't we see yellow print on white
or pick navy from black under a light that is rated CRI=100?

Wow, this is fantastic! I feel like this should be a sticky or the start of a new thread because it really clarifies things for me. I really resonate with the idea that "perfect" may not be "perfect"--and it might not even be the best or enough for some situations. I think the UV light is an incredibly apt example... I was thinking along those lines, too: that maybe the reason I like WARMER light than normal is because it actually gives me an edge--it helps me see things that, perhaps, a perfect light could not... Hmmm!!

That said, it makes me think... We have seen the movement for high CRI here grow from a seed on CPF, to something much more substantial... perhaps one day we will want "super CRI" lights--that are better than the regular CRI standard (perhaps never "better" than the sun...)!

Wow and wow.

I say it frequently, but need to affirm it now: What a great time to be a flashaholic! And, thank you 4Sevens, for bringing these out! It means a LOT to us, as you can see!

 

[applevision]

Hey guys, one other question:
This may NOT be very scientific, but I wonder if something like Photoshop could do a color analysis of the "natural" image, and then compare the colors in the other images and give us some sort of CRI-like rating? Wouldn't that be neat? It kind of opens up a can of worms, and it might just be a variation of the CRI measurement, but it'd be cool to do an independent test via standardized photos and have something objective to compare... Just thinking out loud...

 

[davidt1]

Thank you for the review and pictures! I wanted to ask for some comparison shots with the ZL lights you have. It's like you read my mind. Based on the pictures, my picks would be:

1. Zebralight H501w. No angry/blinding hot spot staring at you. Gotta love that.

2. Preon high CRI

 

[nutcracker]

Hello there is an error!!

The picture of the Zebralight H51c and SC51w is the same. At least the lower one.

 

[applevision]

Hello there is an error!!

The picture of the Zebralight H51c and SC51w is the same. At least the lower one.

Yikes! Thank you, nutcracker! You are right! I fixed this now: the second image under SC51w was the same as the second image under H51c. You can see they are INCREDIBLY similar looking (I had to actually go back to the camera roll in iPhoto and confirm that each number was different). What's interesting is that I didn't even use a tripod--just propped the camera on a chair! In the top image of SC51w, you can see that the "FOOD TO THE RESCUE" is a bit more orange/yellow and pops more than in the H51c image. You can also see that the area to the left is darker in the SC51w image. In the bottom image, now you can see that the table is cut off at a slightly different position. Whew! I guess these are very similar lights, indeed! Thanks so much for pointing this out!
-Apple

 

[Phos4]

i was just gonna say the same ting as nuts! these all look the same to me! but now i see you fixed it, lord knows they are hard to tell apart. you want something real--you should show some infrared! ha!

i like cool blue and blinding bright or less than a quarter lumen red while out on a night mission to read a real terrains map, with enemy nearby, so close you can hear the crunch of their boots on the earth--that's how we used to do it during war.

but i am starting to see what you all see in the hi crying lights (ha ha! crying! en vez de cri!) ha!

good pictures, but what is up with the rescue food trunk? no wonder you americans are so tubby! ha ha!

-phos4 out

 

[applevision]

Thank you for the review and pictures! I wanted to ask for some comparison shots with the ZL lights you have. It's like you read my mind. Based on the pictures, my picks would be:

1. Zebralight H501w. No angry/blinding hot spot staring at you. Gotta love that.

2. Preon high CRI

Thanks, davidt1, I too am in love with the pure flood of the H501w! I can't wait for the H502w!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Phos4]

which is the best hi-cry lite?
i need to get one now.
which one do YOU like the BEST.

THAT IS ALL
PHOS4

 

[brandocommando]

I just got my high CRI preon2's today (yay.) I just wanted to back up what applevision has reported, the tint's on these are VERY nice, and not overly warm at all IMHO. Mine are actually just a touch "cooler" than my 3000K NB XM-L. I am really happy with these!

 

[davidt1]

I was looking closely at the checkerboard pictures. The warm does show reds better than the high CRI. Now I know why applevision prefers the warm.

 

[mvyrmnd]

which is the best hi-cry lite?
i need to get one now.
which one do YOU like the BEST.

THAT IS ALL
PHOS4

The one I like the best is my Mac's 3300L. 9 High CRI emitters driven at 1550mA. 2500 lumens on high :devil: or 50 lumens for 300 hours.

 

[applevision]

I was looking closely at the checkerboard pictures. The warm does show reds better than the high CRI. Now I know why applevision prefers the warm.

Yes... It is a subtle thing, and perhaps it's because I'm old fashioned and think back to the days of warmer incandescent lights...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[applevision]

which is the best hi-cry lite?
i need to get one now.
which one do YOU like the BEST.

THAT IS ALL
PHOS4

Hi Phos4, I confess that the HDS EDC high CRI has a special place in my heart as being such a powerful, compact, well-built and gorgeous light. The beam on that one is so nice, clean and white, but colors pop beautifully. The Zebralight H51c is a very close second, however: such an amazing functional light and the beam is so great. I kind of wish we could get an H502c (high CRI)--that probably would steal my heart forever!

I just got my high CRI preon2's today (yay.) I just wanted to back up what applevision has reported, the tint's on these are VERY nice, and not overly warm at all IMHO. Mine are actually just a touch "cooler" than my 3000K NB XM-L. I am really happy with these!

Congrats, brandocommando! Enjoy them! So glad your experience is also a good one.

The one I like the best is my Mac's 3300L. 9 High CRI emitters driven at 1550mA. 2500 lumens on high :devil: or 50 lumens for 300 hours.

Holy guacamole! That's a serious light!

Thanks, guys!

 

[dannn]

thanks for the pics.
Im actually researching a pen light and the preon 2 is currently at the top of the list.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

applevision, I'll be glad to lend you my 1AAA Peak Eiger with a Nichia CRI 92 emitter, to use for a couple weeks. I don't have a 2AAA Eiger body, but you could photograph the beam on a 1.6V Energizer L92 and a 3.7-4.1V 10440.

 

[Phredd]

My High CRI Preon 2 is amazingly white. It does have a little yellowish hue to it, but it is pretty darn white, and not very red/brown/orange. My Warm Preon is also fairly white, which is perhaps why I adore this particular little buddy.

I got my CRI lights yesterday and I was very surprised by the yellow tint. I didn't get how a light that is supposed to have a better CRI would appear yellow on a semi-gloss white door. And it was much harder for me to make out wood (cherry), pinks and reds with the CRI light. I kept switching between my Reveal light, CRI and warm and it seemed that the warm was much closer to the Reveal. Maybe it is just a preference and since I like the Reveal bulbs, I favor the warm, but I really don't like the CRI light.

 

[Paul_in_Maryland]

Peak Eiger Nichia 92 CRI is compared with a modded Quark Revo in this sales thread on CPF Marketplace.

 

[Derek Dean]

Thanks for that link, Paul. That's a nice comparison.