Quark Mini CR2 Ti.
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strinq
Enlightened
Actually it all boils down to a simple question.
"Why not make the batteries thingy optional?"
I agree that its not easy to make everyone happy. But when more than half the replies are negative, there's something really wrong.
"Why not make the batteries thingy optional?"
I agree that its not easy to make everyone happy. But when more than half the replies are negative, there's something really wrong.
Eric242
Flashlight Enthusiast
A Ti Mini CR2 being equal to the aforementioned lights is just your wrong interpretation of other peoples posts. Actually I believe (the light is not avaiable yet, so who could compare it for real) it isn´t and that´s one reason why it is significantly cheaper than those.
I believe people not only had the expectation of it being cheaper than it actually is but also think they have the right to get it for the price the had in mind.
My suggestion to David:
Make "BFL" optional. CR2 Mini without it $99, one cell every 6 month add $35
amigafan2003
Enlightened
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2009
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- 248
It is optional - I've just ordered one and mailed 4sevens asking them to not bother sending me the batteries
Same.. a battery every 6 months is useless, since the flashlight will eat on in just 40 minutes anyway. Its a good deal for 4sevens, since they get to mail you offers etc. with the batteries.
A fair deal for international buyers, would be 3 batteries once every 6 months for 3 years, instead of 1 every 6 months for 10 years. Translates into 18 batteries for international buyers, vs. 20 for US buyers.
I don't think we see what goes on behind the scenes here, and I do not claim to know everything either.
I am thinking from the battery standpoint. David wanted to provide the customers with batteries so that they would not be required to go to the local store and pay 5+ dollars per battery potentially (yes, I know you can get them online for cheaper, and possibly cheaper in the store, but when I have looked locally, they always seem to be at least 5 dollars). David went through the trouble of getting CR2 batteries manufactured under his own label.
I have no idea how much it costs to manufacture batteries, or license someone to manufacture batteries, and no idea of the minimum quantity you have to order, but I assume it is a fairly hefty investment.
The way I see it, David has done this to be able to provide as best he can to his customers, in the best way he knows how. I believe he has also done this so that he knows he will be able to at least rotate through his supply of CR2 batteries that he had to purchase for the lights up front, and that the batteries will not sit on his shelves for years. There are always multiple reasons for something, and I am not naive enough to think it was only for one reason.
This makes sense given what David wants to do for the CPF community, and still stay in business.
Honestly, I feel that if David hadn't set the expectations already with all the other titanium lights, and had priced all of them well over 100$, when this CR2 came along at 99$ and free batteries, we would all be lauding his praise. Unfortunately, he has tried to make all of his Titanium lights as affordable to us as possible, and so when this one goes against our expectations, we turn very quickly, apparently.
I don't plan on purchasing the light anytime soon. I had CR2 lights in the past, and now prefer CR123 variations (more power, only slightly larger, I even carry a 123-2 Turbo in my pocket and don't mind the size). I have purchased a number of lights from David over the years, and I will continue to purchase lights from him. I believe he is honestly trying to do good by CPF, as well as trying to stay in business during an economic recession.
I am thinking from the battery standpoint. David wanted to provide the customers with batteries so that they would not be required to go to the local store and pay 5+ dollars per battery potentially (yes, I know you can get them online for cheaper, and possibly cheaper in the store, but when I have looked locally, they always seem to be at least 5 dollars). David went through the trouble of getting CR2 batteries manufactured under his own label.
I have no idea how much it costs to manufacture batteries, or license someone to manufacture batteries, and no idea of the minimum quantity you have to order, but I assume it is a fairly hefty investment.
The way I see it, David has done this to be able to provide as best he can to his customers, in the best way he knows how. I believe he has also done this so that he knows he will be able to at least rotate through his supply of CR2 batteries that he had to purchase for the lights up front, and that the batteries will not sit on his shelves for years. There are always multiple reasons for something, and I am not naive enough to think it was only for one reason.
This makes sense given what David wants to do for the CPF community, and still stay in business.
Honestly, I feel that if David hadn't set the expectations already with all the other titanium lights, and had priced all of them well over 100$, when this CR2 came along at 99$ and free batteries, we would all be lauding his praise. Unfortunately, he has tried to make all of his Titanium lights as affordable to us as possible, and so when this one goes against our expectations, we turn very quickly, apparently.
I don't plan on purchasing the light anytime soon. I had CR2 lights in the past, and now prefer CR123 variations (more power, only slightly larger, I even carry a 123-2 Turbo in my pocket and don't mind the size). I have purchased a number of lights from David over the years, and I will continue to purchase lights from him. I believe he is honestly trying to do good by CPF, as well as trying to stay in business during an economic recession.
You have hit the nail on the head. If the other Quark Ti lights were priced higher, then this CR2 version would looked at differently. From a marketing/product introduction perspective, this is a misstep for 47 (IMO). With that siad, this still looks like a really good deal compared to what else is available in this format, but folks are comparing Quarks to Quarks. As it stands, folks are fully aware of the lower cost of previous mini Ti models and with that knowledge, folks are estimating the cost of the battery program.
Do consider though that the batteries are not free. 47 will incur costs to provide/deliver these batteries and these costs have to be passed on the end user (hence the higher price). The batteries would not be provided up front at THIS same cost as 47 would then loose the time value of money benefit of having the funds now for a product they don't have to deliver until a some point in the future. If 47 were to deliver the 22 batteries up front, the cost of the mini CR2 would be significantly higher to us.
So I don't think this cost of the miniCR2 is unreasonable or out of line, but when the cost of this Quark is being compared to the cost of other Quarks, I understand why some folks are dissapointed with the price.
Henk_Lu
Flashlight Enthusiast
You're probably right. Who needs CR2 batteries? The only ones I know are the people who have a photo camera which takes them and those who have a CR2 light. That are not really many people...
When David said they were testing different cells to get the ones which would perform best in the MiNi, I thought they would simply buy a few hundred of those cells, at no moment I would have thought they would rebrand it!
I guess they realized their mistake too late, which I can't comprehend however. Than they invented that battery-program to try to come out of it again.
bondr006
Flashlight Enthusiast
I don't think anyone(myself included) is questioning the cost of the batteries, or what it cost David to have them manufactured, and it sounds like it could be a very good deal....IF it was made an option to the consumer. It is certainly not the consumers responsibility to buy from any given dealer, nor is it our problem that David now has all these batteries. No matter how good his intentions are...we did not ask him to provide the batteries. Our only expectation was for a light. In my case, I am still waiting for that, as I want a black aluminum one to match my Mini 123. Others, a Ti version of the light only, with nothing else attached. I personally like David very much, and consider him a friend as we have had some great phone conversations....but I think it is a bad decision when you start making decisions for the consumer, even if it is with their best interest in mind.
EDIT: The other thing I forgot to address is the cost of the light. Yes, people did have reasonable expectations that the price would be the same or at least close to the previous versions of the Ti Minis. David set a precedence and sold these without battery plans at lower prices than people had seen before. So, my point is....either the batteries are free and the light truely is $99.00, or the batteries make up for part of the $99.00 cost. If the latter is the case, then the consumer should be able to purchase the light only, at a lower cost...or make the choice to take advantage of the battery deal at the full cost of $99.00. If indeed the batteries are free and the cost of just the light is $99.00, then whoever buys the Ti version of the light is getting a great deal.
EDIT: The other thing I forgot to address is the cost of the light. Yes, people did have reasonable expectations that the price would be the same or at least close to the previous versions of the Ti Minis. David set a precedence and sold these without battery plans at lower prices than people had seen before. So, my point is....either the batteries are free and the light truely is $99.00, or the batteries make up for part of the $99.00 cost. If the latter is the case, then the consumer should be able to purchase the light only, at a lower cost...or make the choice to take advantage of the battery deal at the full cost of $99.00. If indeed the batteries are free and the cost of just the light is $99.00, then whoever buys the Ti version of the light is getting a great deal.
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Zendude
Enlightened
Maybe 47s should just raise the prices of the Ti MiNi AA and 123 to make you feel better.
+1 to those who stated that the disappoint stems from the expectation that the cr2 light was going to be the same price as the AA and 123.
We see the higher price and we assume its because of the b4l.
These lights are not going to sell in high numbers(compared to the AA/123) so it makes sense that the light be sold at a higher cost. Your buying the light for $100. If you don't want the batteries do as others have done and tell them not to send them.
+1 to those who stated that the disappoint stems from the expectation that the cr2 light was going to be the same price as the AA and 123.
We see the higher price and we assume its because of the b4l.
These lights are not going to sell in high numbers(compared to the AA/123) so it makes sense that the light be sold at a higher cost. Your buying the light for $100. If you don't want the batteries do as others have done and tell them not to send them.
FroggyTaco
Flashlight Enthusiast
I posed the question to David in his announcement thread about since these CR2's are specced "better" than normal CR's (per David) he had to commit to a mininum order(monthly or 1 time) and thats part of the program.
I would think that 5 years for the US folks is still a VERY LONG time in a flashaholic world. So 2 every 6 months & they halve their shipping costs.
I would think that 5 years for the US folks is still a VERY LONG time in a flashaholic world. So 2 every 6 months & they halve their shipping costs.
flasherByNight
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2008
- Messages
- 465
This is why these threads become so unwieldy, pages and pages about nonsense that can't be "conclusively" decided. You either like it, or you don't...period.
We end up having these 20 page long threads that have maybe 20% worth of actual good info
How about a dedicated "What do you think about the Battery for Life Program" thread.
And even more novel, how about talking about the FLASHLIGHT
We end up having these 20 page long threads that have maybe 20% worth of actual good info
How about a dedicated "What do you think about the Battery for Life Program" thread.
And even more novel, how about talking about the FLASHLIGHT
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HKJ
Flashaholic
I would suggest you look at the price for batteries for life options, they suggest that the light is considerable cheaper that the other Mini lights: Going for every 3 months (i.e. twice the number of batteries and shipments compared to the free option) is $70.
This is probably a market test by 4Sevens to see how people will like this kind of option and made mandatory to force people to test it.
olrac
Flashlight Enthusiast
I guess a number of us were surprised by the 44% price increase (assuming free battery for life), we wrongly assumed they would be priced like the 123 and AA versions. Our bad.
Do have to say they look great and I'm sure they have the 47's quality we all have come to appreciate.
Do have to say they look great and I'm sure they have the 47's quality we all have come to appreciate.
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AILL
Newly Enlightened
Well, for european customers this torch is meanwhile on pre-order here: http://www.4sevens.pl/product_info.php?cPath=301_356&products_id=2234
No B4L-program to bother us. And includes all custom fees already. If you compare the prices in $ and € you will immediately realize that the B4L program is for free. The "price" you pay for the batteries is the advertisement you get, and your actual data in 4sevens customer data base.
Andreas
No B4L-program to bother us. And includes all custom fees already. If you compare the prices in $ and € you will immediately realize that the B4L program is for free. The "price" you pay for the batteries is the advertisement you get, and your actual data in 4sevens customer data base.
Andreas
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Wow people. I am pretty new to the whole flashlight thing. I bought an Aeon for $125 (not ti). I just ordered the mini CR2 for $99. I think I am going to have two awesome CR2 lights. Plus I have a Nitecore CR2.Now I will have spare batteries every 6 months. What is not to like?
If you don't like the battery thing, don't buy the light. End of story. If you want the light but don't want the batteries, send them an email that you don't want them, or, better yet, have them send the batteries to me...I'll take them.
I lurk around these forums a lot and see lots of ti lights for hundreds more than $99. This seems like a super deal to me. Maybe I'm not a true "flashoholic", but stop busting David's balls. 4sevens makes some great lights and is paving the way for more people to get really cool lights at a fairly economical pricepoint.
I applaud the company. I can't wait for my little CR2 mini!
Rant off,
Josh
If you don't like the battery thing, don't buy the light. End of story. If you want the light but don't want the batteries, send them an email that you don't want them, or, better yet, have them send the batteries to me...I'll take them.
I lurk around these forums a lot and see lots of ti lights for hundreds more than $99. This seems like a super deal to me. Maybe I'm not a true "flashoholic", but stop busting David's balls. 4sevens makes some great lights and is paving the way for more people to get really cool lights at a fairly economical pricepoint.
I applaud the company. I can't wait for my little CR2 mini!
Rant off,
Josh
Zendude
Enlightened
Considerably cheaper? I respectfully disagree. It probably cost the same to manufacture any of the MiNis. Take the b4l out and I still believe the MiNi CR2 would still be sold at a higher price. The ZL H60 probably cost about the same as the other ZL lights but they charge more because its a niche light.
I understand peoples frustration when they believe they are being forced into something(I felt the same way about the Preon Kit) but you can opt out if you wish. You're still buying a $99 light.
Yes, 47s is trying something different. If it doesn't work he'll stop(considering the reaction it seems likely). Just don't expect the price to drop as much as you think.
For the record I wouldn't want the b4l either as I prefer rechargeable batteries(less waste).
yeah primarys are kinda gross+ I like knowing
that I just charged my batts before a trip and have
primary as backup. I was hoping for an aluminum
version and was going to run RCR2s in it.
Ill buy two if he makes em:thumbsup:
that I just charged my batts before a trip and have
primary as backup. I was hoping for an aluminum
version and was going to run RCR2s in it.
Ill buy two if he makes em:thumbsup:
olrac
Flashlight Enthusiast
"Considerably cheaper? I respectfully disagree. It probably cost the same to manufacture any of the MiNis. Take the b4l out and I still believe the MiNi CR2 would still be sold at a higher price. The ZL H60 probably cost about the same as the other ZL lights but they charge more because its a niche light."
Who knows if the mini CR2 cost more or less to produce. If it was made at the same time as the 123 and AA it probably cost the same, if it was made after that and it is a much smaller run it could have cost more given set up cost is being distributed over a fewer number of lights. The lack of information from 47's during the period it was announced and released coupled with CPF'ers making their own assumptions based on no facts has turned this release kind of ugly. But for me it gave me time to think about it before just hitting the buy button. While it is a very good looking light I had time to compare it to the specs of my 123 and came to the conclusion that the 123 provides considerably better performance with just a minimal increase of size. So another impulse purchase averted.
Who knows if the mini CR2 cost more or less to produce. If it was made at the same time as the 123 and AA it probably cost the same, if it was made after that and it is a much smaller run it could have cost more given set up cost is being distributed over a fewer number of lights. The lack of information from 47's during the period it was announced and released coupled with CPF'ers making their own assumptions based on no facts has turned this release kind of ugly. But for me it gave me time to think about it before just hitting the buy button. While it is a very good looking light I had time to compare it to the specs of my 123 and came to the conclusion that the 123 provides considerably better performance with just a minimal increase of size. So another impulse purchase averted.
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