TechnoBill
Newly Enlightened
The purpose of this thread is collect documented, first person accounts of the Solarforce Distribution Channel.
I am NOT trying to ruffle any feathers, merely to gain an historical perspective on what CPFers have encountered in the past, and perhaps draw some inkling of what we might expect in the future.
1) On 12/21/2007 selfbuilt conducted one of his typically exhaustive reviews of a Solarforce T7- Q5 Cree provided gratis by CPF user waion.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=183765&highlight=Solarforce
2) On 03/04/2008 lewong reviewed/posted pictures from a purchased Solarforce R2 drop-in.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=191328&highlight=Solarforce
3) On 05/22/2009 csshih (Craig) reviewed the SolarforceL950m using a unit provided gratis by jake25 (Jason). Jake's site at the time was solarforcelights.com
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=232292&highlight=Solarforce
4) On 09/26/2009 csshih (Craig) reviewed the Solarforce Masterpiece using a unit provided gratis by jake25 (Jason).
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243264&highlight=Solarforce
Jason's old site was still accessible but Craig directed customers to Jason's new site http://www.sbflashlights.com/Solarforce-Lights-c5/ noting that only two Solarforce Masterpiece units remained available.
5) On 10/02/2009 I posted a "Test Drive", as opposed to a full review with documented data readings, and therein raised the issue of communications with the Hong Kong based distributor. Details of problems with the "signal to noise" ratio presumably a function of language differences are covered at length therein.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243843
6) Several days ago the Hong Kong based distributor, without any advance notice whatsoever, raised the price for the Masterpiece, AC charger, and 2 2400mAh 18650 batteries from $119 to $199.
7) PRIOR TO THE PRICE INCREASE some CPFers, directly attributing their action to my Test Drive, chose to purchase the Solarforce Masterpiece from the Hong Kong distributor. Thus far, all those subsequent purchasers seem pleased with their decisions.
8) But if I were the person reading the Review/Test Drive, I would want to have some vague notion of whether I could make a deliberated decision and proceed with obtaining said item, or whether I would be opening myself up to a rude, abrupt, price increase, that places the item in an entirely different range of competitors! This possibility applies undue pressure when a new item becomes available and does a disservice, needlessly, to both distributor and customer.
9) * I've contacted ITC, the Hong Kong distributor, informing them that this sort of business behaviour is seen, at least in the West, as price gouging. 10/17/2009 03:50 EDT (GMT -6) ITC Response Received (see bottom of this, #1, post.)
10) The "standard" I've observed here at CPF, whether from a firmly established vendor such as 4Sevens with their limited Quark Titaniums, or a peripheral entry player such as the Howitzer and its manufacturer, is to lay out clear time lines and price structures related thereto.
I don't know if any new data/information will come of this post, or whether acquiring a Solarforce item will continue to be a game of Russian Roulette. Based on Jake25's (Jason's) comments, a Solarforce distributor, I'm keeping my expectations modest.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=242477&highlight=Solarforce%27s+retail+dept+leap+frog&page=2
But I also wish to make clear that there is a certain degree to which the buyer should beware. No doubt this is nothing new to participants in a "fringe" hobby {Manufacturers on the fringe I mean. As far as CPFers mental health, well we all know the real story there :wave:} but integrity is more than just a catch phrase to me, and I want to clearly delineate between my comments on a product, and the consistency of that product's offshore distributors.
So let's hear what collective illumination can be cast on this topic. It seems to me that the ability of Candle Power Forum participants to dig up info gives the folks at the Jet Propulsion Lab a run for their money :laughing:. Somebody should have told the boys at CalTech to do their homework. I mean come on, sending Spirit and Opportunity all that way to explore the surface of Mars, then finding out Gusev Crater was created by Flashaholics with a penchant for modding their gear :nana:? That's classic!
I remember when I was a little TechnoBill and we watched Neil Armstrong, with a slight transmission delay, set the first human foot on the moon. Even as a munchkin, the silence in our classroom seemed to me almost reverential. That was, and still is, a GREAT BIG DARN DEAL. Then along came these HallPassClowns {note secret code} schlepping the debauch that the moon landing was faked. What bone heads :tinfoil:! But CPFers burning craters on Mars has never come to the attention of the tinfoil hat loons, Epic Idiots
!
So look you guys, as regards Solarforce's Distribution Channels I have utterly no clue whether "The Truth Is Out There", except of course in MrGMan's Sphere Of Truth, but if there are some general experiential impressions "Out There" it might be of help future SolarSchwartzians
.
"Jake25, I'm yo mama!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10/17/2009 03:50 EDT (GMT -6) ITC Response Received
Temporally proximal to Zero: Dark: Hundred: as the issues, oddities, and general conundrums surrounding Solarforce, it's marketing and distribution "strategy" (and I use the term "strategy" very loosely), and the sudden $119 to $199 price spike on the part of International Trading Company, were swarming around my frontal lobe like gnats that annoy, but can't be smacked into Aedes Vexans pulp like a mosquito, nor driven away with the wave of a hand, I received a reply from ITC regarding item #9 above, the precipitous price increase. The message that unannounced, unanticipated price escalations on the order of 67% not only anger customers, but likely precludes their making future purchases, even if future prices are temporarily a good value, has gotten through. ITC asserts that when subsequent Solarforce items come down the distribution pipeline, ITC's pricing timeline and/or structure will be made explicit on its E-Bay site.
From the customers' perspective, this should make the "candy grab" (see post # 10 below) somewhat less frenetic, allowing customers looking to acquire a Solarforce more time and presence of mind to consider whether a particular item suits their needs ("wants" for Flashaholics ) and is at an agreeable price point.
I wish I could do more for Jake25 (Jason) as he is a CPF brother, if I may be so presumptuous as to consider myself one of the brethren "OF The Sickness", but for now removing one bit of impedimentia from the path of other customers shall have to suffice.
In the interest of full disclosure I have posted the exact text of my communiqués with ITC in post #11 of this thread.
I am NOT trying to ruffle any feathers, merely to gain an historical perspective on what CPFers have encountered in the past, and perhaps draw some inkling of what we might expect in the future.
1) On 12/21/2007 selfbuilt conducted one of his typically exhaustive reviews of a Solarforce T7- Q5 Cree provided gratis by CPF user waion.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=183765&highlight=Solarforce
2) On 03/04/2008 lewong reviewed/posted pictures from a purchased Solarforce R2 drop-in.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=191328&highlight=Solarforce
3) On 05/22/2009 csshih (Craig) reviewed the SolarforceL950m using a unit provided gratis by jake25 (Jason). Jake's site at the time was solarforcelights.com
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=232292&highlight=Solarforce
4) On 09/26/2009 csshih (Craig) reviewed the Solarforce Masterpiece using a unit provided gratis by jake25 (Jason).
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243264&highlight=Solarforce
Jason's old site was still accessible but Craig directed customers to Jason's new site http://www.sbflashlights.com/Solarforce-Lights-c5/ noting that only two Solarforce Masterpiece units remained available.
5) On 10/02/2009 I posted a "Test Drive", as opposed to a full review with documented data readings, and therein raised the issue of communications with the Hong Kong based distributor. Details of problems with the "signal to noise" ratio presumably a function of language differences are covered at length therein.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=243843
6) Several days ago the Hong Kong based distributor, without any advance notice whatsoever, raised the price for the Masterpiece, AC charger, and 2 2400mAh 18650 batteries from $119 to $199.
7) PRIOR TO THE PRICE INCREASE some CPFers, directly attributing their action to my Test Drive, chose to purchase the Solarforce Masterpiece from the Hong Kong distributor. Thus far, all those subsequent purchasers seem pleased with their decisions.
8) But if I were the person reading the Review/Test Drive, I would want to have some vague notion of whether I could make a deliberated decision and proceed with obtaining said item, or whether I would be opening myself up to a rude, abrupt, price increase, that places the item in an entirely different range of competitors! This possibility applies undue pressure when a new item becomes available and does a disservice, needlessly, to both distributor and customer.
9) * I've contacted ITC, the Hong Kong distributor, informing them that this sort of business behaviour is seen, at least in the West, as price gouging. 10/17/2009 03:50 EDT (GMT -6) ITC Response Received (see bottom of this, #1, post.)
10) The "standard" I've observed here at CPF, whether from a firmly established vendor such as 4Sevens with their limited Quark Titaniums, or a peripheral entry player such as the Howitzer and its manufacturer, is to lay out clear time lines and price structures related thereto.
I don't know if any new data/information will come of this post, or whether acquiring a Solarforce item will continue to be a game of Russian Roulette. Based on Jake25's (Jason's) comments, a Solarforce distributor, I'm keeping my expectations modest.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=242477&highlight=Solarforce%27s+retail+dept+leap+frog&page=2
I flat out LOVE My Solarforce Masterpiece ! And, as noted elsewhere, I sincerely appreciate the CPF community introducing me to illumination tools as Toys, not merely expensive support devices for my main addiction lovecpf.
09-21-2009, 02:16 PM
jake25
Flashaholic*
I agree 100% Solarforce still has some marketing kinks to work out but I don't think that takes away from the quality of the product, imo that is.
I think I've yelled/argued with them more times than I have fingers to do it right, Sample, Preorder etc etc. I guess they march to their own beat.
Also the main "fleabay" seller of Solarforce is actually Solarforce's retail dept so sometimes they leap frog each other.
But I also wish to make clear that there is a certain degree to which the buyer should beware. No doubt this is nothing new to participants in a "fringe" hobby {Manufacturers on the fringe I mean. As far as CPFers mental health, well we all know the real story there :wave:} but integrity is more than just a catch phrase to me, and I want to clearly delineate between my comments on a product, and the consistency of that product's offshore distributors.
So let's hear what collective illumination can be cast on this topic. It seems to me that the ability of Candle Power Forum participants to dig up info gives the folks at the Jet Propulsion Lab a run for their money :laughing:. Somebody should have told the boys at CalTech to do their homework. I mean come on, sending Spirit and Opportunity all that way to explore the surface of Mars, then finding out Gusev Crater was created by Flashaholics with a penchant for modding their gear :nana:? That's classic!
I remember when I was a little TechnoBill and we watched Neil Armstrong, with a slight transmission delay, set the first human foot on the moon. Even as a munchkin, the silence in our classroom seemed to me almost reverential. That was, and still is, a GREAT BIG DARN DEAL. Then along came these HallPassClowns {note secret code} schlepping the debauch that the moon landing was faked. What bone heads :tinfoil:! But CPFers burning craters on Mars has never come to the attention of the tinfoil hat loons, Epic Idiots
!So look you guys, as regards Solarforce's Distribution Channels I have utterly no clue whether "The Truth Is Out There", except of course in MrGMan's Sphere Of Truth, but if there are some general experiential impressions "Out There" it might be of help future SolarSchwartzians
."Jake25, I'm yo mama!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10/17/2009 03:50 EDT (GMT -6) ITC Response Received
Temporally proximal to Zero: Dark: Hundred: as the issues, oddities, and general conundrums surrounding Solarforce, it's marketing and distribution "strategy" (and I use the term "strategy" very loosely), and the sudden $119 to $199 price spike on the part of International Trading Company, were swarming around my frontal lobe like gnats that annoy, but can't be smacked into Aedes Vexans pulp like a mosquito, nor driven away with the wave of a hand, I received a reply from ITC regarding item #9 above, the precipitous price increase. The message that unannounced, unanticipated price escalations on the order of 67% not only anger customers, but likely precludes their making future purchases, even if future prices are temporarily a good value, has gotten through. ITC asserts that when subsequent Solarforce items come down the distribution pipeline, ITC's pricing timeline and/or structure will be made explicit on its E-Bay site.
From the customers' perspective, this should make the "candy grab" (see post # 10 below) somewhat less frenetic, allowing customers looking to acquire a Solarforce more time and presence of mind to consider whether a particular item suits their needs ("wants" for Flashaholics
) and is at an agreeable price point.I wish I could do more for Jake25 (Jason) as he is a CPF brother, if I may be so presumptuous as to consider myself one of the brethren "OF The Sickness", but for now removing one bit of impedimentia from the path of other customers shall have to suffice.
In the interest of full disclosure I have posted the exact text of my communiqués with ITC in post #11 of this thread.
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:nana:
