S.O.S. and Strobe? Are you kidding me? They annoyingly get in the way.

burntoshine

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Kinda funny how a lot of people gripe about how these types of threads should be closed, but they don't pass up the chance to put their 2 cents into the argument ;)


Now on topic... as for strobe, it sounds like some people have actually used it in a defensive/offensive situation, but to me it still seems like it'd be a double edged sword, ie, disorienting the user as well as the target. Like someone mentioned, everything the USER sees is also strobing. I guess if you trained with it you could get used to it, but it seems risky to me :shrug:


PS: If there's actually a reasonable discussion going on, why close the thread? If you're tired of these threads don't read 'em. Kinda like those %#$*-ing stories in the news about "Jon and Kate" that just won't go away :laughing:

there's a lot about this thread that's funny.

...and for your information, i only put in one cent.


edit: ooh looky, i made another :dedhorse: thread go to 3 pages; holla!
 
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yellow

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PS: it is not the SOS/flashing, it is the "remember last setting", that "forces" someone to cycle through these modes
(and the lack of understanding the Fenix UI, as Fenix has been mentionned for offering this "need to cycle through flashy modes")
For me, if the strobe is on the sequence of a light (like L1D), it'll only be annoying most of the

AGAIN !!!
several years of using Fenixes almost exclusively and I never was annoyed from the Strobe/SOS, simply because there is no pressure to activate it, when one does not want it.
Learn the UI
:rolleyes:

The Fenix UI is not like those 5-level remember last setting crap of cheapo lights.
(and there is no better UI at the moment that works for both the tactical crew (full blast at 1st click) as well as the normal flashlight users (low at 1st click) AND offers the possibility to choose/check for that setting without clicking the light on (with that turn-the-head-general level choice))
 

Marduke

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True, strobe really can attract attentions, and chances are it can also create a lot of annoyance (for the hundreds or/of thousands of people around you) too, so you might want to use the strobe very sparingly. Meaning this strobe could probably just be manually done via quickly turning the like on & off.

For me, if the strobe is on the sequence of a light (like L1D), it'll only be annoying most of the time. If it can be activated via some other complicated mode switching, i could just quickly turn the light on & off to create this strobe effect if i wanted to get someone's attention.

i.e. Back to square one, no need for strobes.
I am not ignorant enough to point my light AT people while using strobe to attract attention. Dozens of usages and never an issue...
 

bluepilgrim

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This isn't realll about strobe -- the discussion might as well be about having a siren, or a tazer, or a radio in your light -- it's about the UI and having a choice in buying and using the light with the function you want. (Wait -- now someone will read this and put a tazer function in a light they sell -- we'll see people trying to find the car in a dark parking lot suddeny start to scream...).

It's not even the flashlight makers so much as the companies/engineers who design the electronics and make the pills.

Triple click, twist the bezel to left, double click, and twist bezel to right to activate web browser...
 

Crenshaw

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+1
Obnoxious, unless its IBS!

+1

Can't see why its so one sided. I have yet to hear one incident where strobe actually helped anyone in any situation where max output wouldn't have achieved the same, if not better, result.

Strobe to be short is useless!! SOS... could be useful in one in a million chance, but will be annoying too if cannot be tucked away.

may I, yet AGAIN point out, that not EVERYONE will have use for strobe. you evidently dont, yet others do. Just because you haven't heard of a good use for strobe, doesnt mean there ISNT one...

As for disco, hey, i actually used it AS a disco light at a party once....was a pretty cool effect.

Crenshaw
 

travelinman

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I was driving on one of our local freeways in late Sept. and it was dusk. There wasn't much traffic but on a very long straight stretch I noticed a flashing light up ahead. I then realized it was a strobe, probably on a flashlight and eventually found it was a bicyclist with what probably was a flashlight with strobe strapped to his head riding on the companion road, facing us. Upon realizing what it was, I figured out that I could see him from at least 3 miles away.

I'd probably want a strobe if I were a bicyclist!

It has been mentioned here that people cant think of any reason to use a strobe. Well, just because you can't think of a reason, doesn't mean there aren't many!:poke:
 

pee10755

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So i presume you're a LEO. I heard from LEOs in this forum that even the SWATs don't get taught to use strobe, and apparently 'regular' police don't either. So who taught you these strobe tactics?
And if someone said "max output in the eyes will be just as good as strobe", how would you respond?

As far as I'm concerned, strobe for "tactical" situations is just beyond absurd, probably a marketing ploy IMO.

I am a firearms, rifle and defensive tactics instructor. I have been on my agencies emergency response team for over ten years. I have taken many classes on tactical handgun, urban rifle, building searches, threat resolution... I can think of at least three times when strobe was specifically worked into drills and the topic of instruction. I have a training partner who is an adjunct instructor for a private firm that teaches defensive tactics to law enforcement, military and private contractors. He uses the strobe mode specifically in his class. We have conducted in-service training in low light building searches where strobe mode was used as a technique. I am saying this to answer his specific question, not write a bio. I have attended training on strobe tactics and taught tactics on strobe use. Going into that in any more depth would be drifting too far from the topic.

Strobe mode and a steady light in the face achieve two different goals. A bright steady light takes the eyes out of the equation. It is great and can help a great deal in dynmaic encounters. The suspect can shield their eyes or look at the ground. They can use shadows and reflected light to still track your movements and work toward their goals. Strobe mode goes a step further and disorients a person. They loose their ability to properly judge distance and movement. Reflected light and shadows become unpredictable and chaotic. If you are running at someone for a take down with a steady light they can judge your distance and time their response. If you run at someone using angles and moving a strobe in different directions it disorients them considerably and the moment of contact is a surprise. If they are surprised and the proper techniques are applied you can wrap someone up before they can mount a defense. That means less injuries for the officer and the suspect. I have used it in training and fought many suspects using a steady light and a strobe. There is a difference. Either you believe me or you don't. Don't make a judgment if you have not trained both ways and applied it in the field.

Another great use for strobe is when you are working with a K9 officer running tracks. We have to work with helicopters and when you are a small dot in an urban sea of structures, vehicles and other police lights you can get lost. Using the strobe to signal the pilot is a great help so they can vector you in to an area or track your position.

My only point in all this is that strobe does have real world uses. They might not be for the masses, but there are benefits. It comes down to the consumer. If you don't like strobe and don't have a use for it, don't buy it. Voice your concerns with the manufactures. If you have a use for it then buy it. That is the beauty of our economic system. The market drives the products.
 
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pee10755

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+1
Obnoxious, unless its IBS!

+1

Can't see why its so one sided. I have yet to hear one incident where strobe actually helped anyone in any situation where max output wouldn't have achieved the same, if not better, result.

Strobe to be short is useless!! SOS... could be useful in one in a million chance, but will be annoying too if cannot be tucked away.

I have named a few in the post, but try going out into an intersection with a dead traffic signal at 2:30am. Try to stop drunk drivers from running you over with a steady light and then with a strong P7 strobe as engineering is working on the signal box. I guarantee you that you sing the praises of the strobe quickly.
 
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david86

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I use it all the time for LEO.....it's great for getting the attention of traffic flow when you want. I have never used to disorient a perp though. Mainly for traffic situations.
 

TomInOregon

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To that I would say get a unique light for you unique usage, which falls outside the relm of EDC and into the relm of being for a specific task. Specific tasks require specific tools, and yours is no different.

And to those of you who want S.O.S./Strobe that requires someone to cycle through those functions in order to change levels, I say get a unique light for your unique usage, which falls outside the realm of the average flashlight user and into the realm of being for a specific task that may or may not ever occur. Specific tasks require specific tools and yours is no different.

I'm not looking for a specialized light for a particularly narrow audience and I don't require one. Don't try to make it out like I have some ridiculously narrow set of requirements and I should have to commission a custom build in order to meet those requirements. I'm not looking to ban flashy modes and nobody here is. Asking for the same light they already make MINUS a few features isn't asking for a whole redesign or requiring a brainstorming session in order to fit it in there. It's a very simple thing to remove features and it makes the product appeal to more people.

Tom
 

Marduke

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And to those of you who want S.O.S./Strobe that requires someone to cycle through those functions in order to change levels, I say get a unique light for your unique usage, which falls outside the realm of the average flashlight user and into the realm of being for a specific task that may or may not ever occur. Specific tasks require specific tools and yours is no different.

I'm not looking for a specialized light for a particularly narrow audience and I don't require one. Don't try to make it out like I have some ridiculously narrow set of requirements and I should have to commission a custom build in order to meet those requirements. I'm not looking to ban flashy modes and nobody here is. Asking for the same light they already make MINUS a few features isn't asking for a whole redesign or requiring a brainstorming session in order to fit it in there. It's a very simple thing to remove features and it makes the product appeal to more people.

Tom
Well, your usage seems to require a light which can go both up and down in brightness without cycling through unnecessary modes, regardless of the presence of strobe. Yours is a UI problem, not a strobe problem.

However, as stated before, very few quality lights ever make you cycle through flashy modes. Only the cheap lights with mode memory and such force you to cycle through them routinely.
 

OutGunned321

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There's enough of the high quality flashlights that make you cycle through them routinely. The Olight T25-T is an example of how even some of the best quality companies don't understand the user part of the U.I. And that's just one example of how a simple overlook can flaw an otherwise great light. I've done a lot of searching and you'd be surprised how limited your choices can be due to things like this.

Luckily, there are a few great series of lights out there for those who never want to stumble into those functions when they don't need them. You just have to do a lot of searching for them before making your choice amongst the ones that fit your needs.

It takes a lot of time sifting through the ones you don't want because it's not readily apparent when looking at a specs sheet which models and companies offer the U.I. that fits your needs because you have to thoroughly read and learn the operation of each model series you come across before you realize "Darn, that one was so close to getting it right" and moving on to finding and reading the next disappointing operating instructions.

But that's the nature of the beast when shopping. Yet in this case, most flashlight manufacturers are very slow to catch onto the fact that the majority of the market views extra functions as an asset only when they can't be inadvertently activated or slow down output changing. It's sort of like if the majority of clothing companies were still making bell bottoms while oblivious to the current trends (at least you'd be properly dressed when your flashlight accidentally starts a disco).

I see now that flashing modes have their niche. And when implemented properly within the U.I., they can be very convenient. But most of the time they are not implemented properly even by the high quality manufacturers. Even selfbuilt himself had something to say about this topic in his review of the Eagletac T20C2 (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/239321) when he said:

"The other (unfortunately not-so hidden) mode is strobe. This can accessed by doing a rapid twist from General mode to off and back to General mode again. Unfortunately, it can also be accessed by simply clicking off-on within 3 secs. :sigh:

This removes the ability to rapidly signal in momentary mode, and means you will always strobe yourself if you turn the light back on within 3 seconds of it turning off. I would have preferred if strobe had been confined solely to a head switch instead of a simple off-on tail click.
"

"Strobe mode is easily (and potentially inadvertently) accessed by clicking off and back on within 3 seconds."
This light is part of Eagletac's "Tactical" series of lights. Yet in a "tactical" situation it's very easy to unintentionally activate strobe on this light. There's nothing "tactical" about that.

As I've mentioned before, it's very disappointing in this case because Eagletac was one of the few companies that didn't let extra functions get in your way if you didn't need them at the moment. A definite step backwards for this relatively new producer of quality flashlights.

If there is a plethora of suitable choices that I'm unaware of, I'd love to know about them. But right now I've only found a few flashlights that meet my particular requirements (and I've done a lot of searching). Yet there would be a ton of lights out there that would suit my needs if the current ones filling the market only had a U.I. that didn't allow you to accidentally stumble into flashing-modes or let them slow down output changing. Instead, I have to choose amongst very few suitable offerings. And that's something that could be completely turned around if the manufacturers simply got the message.

Anyways, thanks again for enlightening me on some of the more practical ways of using strobe to make some situations easier.
I will make use of this knowledge in the future. :thanks:
 
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bill_n_opus

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Disco is dead - or it should be.

Look, your car headlights manage just fine without cycling through SOS, beacon, strobe. Why should a hand held light be any different?

I don't know ... maybe because you're comparing a car to a flashlight?

If there were no functional differences at all ... then I guess i'd drive everywhere at night just to have illumination when I would rather walk instead? :whistle:

Or if I wanted to catch someone's attention when I'm walking with my kids at night attempting to cross an intersection ... I should have just thrown my kids into my van because it has headlights?
 

jimmyjames

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So far have had 3 lights with multimodes, 2 with strobe. Oilights UI sucks IMO, Ultrafire...forget it, Jetbeam...didn't use it and it did not get in the way. Simpler is better than complex especially in a tactical situation.

Shot IPSC match once with a "shoot house" with strobes in it. Going by memory, the strobes were not facing the shooter, just the targets and illuminating the rooms, it was very difficult and confusing to try and acquire the targets, tell good guys from bad guys and shoot the stage with any accuracy and speed. Would hate to have to actually engage targets that might be shooting back and not shoot good guys in a real life scenario with flashlights on strobe.
 

computernut

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I see the reasons why people like these modes but I don't like multi-modes on my lights. Surefire's double-tapping E2L is about as complicated as I want to go. When I try out other peoples lights they have to give me a course on how to operate it and then the next light I grab has a different interface :thinking:

If I want an SOS beacon I'll just pick up a dedicated flasher for my pack. Everyone has different preferences so if I get a multi-mode light it'll probably be one of those ones you can customize.
 

bluepilgrim

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Consider the Quark AA2 (non-tactical) UI -- not what I think is a cheap light. Two sets of functions depending on bezel twist:
A) low, med, high, SOS,
B) turbo, strobe.
Better would be
A) low, med, high, turbo
B) sos, strobe

That would be much better for my use -- I could ignore the stobe/sos and get to the turbo quickly, with one hand, and those who want stobe (or if I wanted it for some odd reason) would still have them easily. This would not have been a big deal in the design stage of the pill and would have resulted in what I think to be a significantly better light.
 

Ozgeardo

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I like strobe being available on flashlights. Not all my lights have strobe and neither do I require it on all of them but when in the field, where I have the main need for most of my illumination goodies I regularly use strobe when trying to signal my location to others.
I generally carry 3 lights in the field (1 x Headlamp, 1 x Thrower, 1 x multifunction that needs a strobe). Currently this is a Fenix P2D. The other benefit of the strobe is it usually doubles the run time on the highest setting.

I have often been in a SAR situation when there are numerous lights in the field I can always identify someone via the radio by requesting them to use strobe/flash to distinguish from the numerous other lights in the area of operations.

No not necessary on all but a nice option for me.:D
 
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