Searching For a Light (High CRI, Thrower)

[chanjyj]

Crap. I was planning to go the custom route and just realized my Elzetta only fits Malkoffs.

So it's down to:
1. Elzetta+Malkoff XPG HCRI
2. New host (which?)+Custom P60 drop in
3. ArmyTek Predator HCRI (light looks really complicated to use!)

 

[twl]

If I were making the decision, I'd go with the Elzetta that you already have, and get the Malkoff HCRI drop-in for it. It doesn't require buying a new host, and gives the best overall quality answer at this time.
As more HCRI emitters become available, the Malkoff line-up will have them, and you can drop them in then. All it would take is for a HCRI XP-E to be introduced, and you'd have throw and HCRI.
In the mean time, you could be a whole lot worse-off than with that Elzetta/Malkoff HCRI combo.

My 2 cents.

 

[chanjyj]

I don't have any experience with this light but I love peaks and this one looks like it meets your criteria.The night patrol cri

Hey thanks for your $0.02! I know Peak has a following but I find their lights a tad ugly. Not bad lights, just a personal preference.

If I were making the decision, I'd go with the Elzetta that you already have, and get the Malkoff HCRI drop-in for it. It doesn't require buying a new host, and gives the best overall quality answer at this time.
As more HCRI emitters become available, the Malkoff line-up will have them, and you can drop them in then. All it would take is for a HCRI XP-E to be introduced, and you'd have throw and HCRI.
In the mean time, you could be a whole lot worse-off than with that Elzetta/Malkoff HCRI combo.

My 2 cents.

Was thinking along those lines. Do you happen to know how much more throw the M61 XPG HCRI has relative to the M61 219? Pointless if it's marginal. Hunting for beamshots.

 

[twl]

I have no experience to comment on that, other than that people say the XP-G will throw a little better in the same size reflector.
I don't know the exact emitter surface dimensions of those emitters, but the smaller emitter should throw better in the same size reflector, all other things being equal.

On this linked page there are some white wall shots and some distance beamshots of the M61 219 vs the M61W and the M91W and the M61SHO.
It looks to me like the M61W has some more throw than the M61 219, in those shots. Not a ton more, but something.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?341330-Malkoff-M61SHO&p=3993216#post3993216

 

[chanjyj]

In the wall hunting shots it would appear the XPG throws further, but the outdoor beamshots don't show much difference. I'm hesitant to purchase another Malkoff on this alone. Then again, I tend to purchase way to many flashlights anyway so I may get round to it.
I believe the XPG and 219 have exactly the same footprint, the differences in throw stemming from the slightly narrower viewing angle.

 

[motigg]

I don't have beamshots but I have both the M61 219 and the M61 hCRI. The hCRI does have a tighter hotspot but the 219 puts out more lumens overall, and it seems to me that for this reason in terms of throw there isn't much difference. But that leads to another thought, which is that you might consider getting your extra throw via more brute power. My triple throws farther than my HDS hCRI even though the latter has a deeper reflector because the triple is much brighter. My vinhguyen P60 drop-in throws very well, partly due to a relatively deep reflector (for the P60 format) but probably mostly due to sheer output (around 700 lumens on high). It brightly lights up tree tops that are well over 100 yards away, doing much better than what I remember my Surefire LX2 doing, and I haven't even tried it in really dark (i.e., camping) environments.

 

[Mikeg23]

If your looking for high Cri thrower I would carry an Incan in addition to the LED. I know you'll say the Incan won't take the abuse and while that is correct to a degree... You probably won't be using your "thrower" as your main light.

I haven't carried it since I got my Malkoff but I used to carry a Five mega bi-pin and and it out throws my M61 HCRI by a long shot. When I carried my Incans (6P or E2e) they got dropped from 15 foot heights often and rarely gave me problems.

 

[HighlanderNorth]

First of all, I cant imagine that a P60 style/size light with 3 XP-G's all shoved together in that mid sized head is going to have much throw, which was one of the criteria. Any time you shoehorn 3 LED's into a fairly smallish reflector, its going to be floody! What light isnt?

I would put my Eagletac G25C2 against anything Surefire makes for under $200. Specs: 1-18650 about P60 sized, maybe 1/2" longer. Great throw with mid sized spill beam. The XM-L U2 version has a nice neutral/white beam. Turbo runs at 640 ANSI/OTF lumens. It has 5 brightness settings, strobe and SOS. Thick, tough as nails. Simple to operate, with no complicated UI. Doesnt seem to overheat on high like some lights. Comes with nice holster, extra parts, etc. I paid $95 after $10 off coupon.

 

[chanjyj]

I don't have beamshots but I have both the M61 219 and the M61 hCRI. The hCRI does have a tighter hotspot but the 219 puts out more lumens overall, and it seems to me that for this reason in terms of throw there isn't much difference. But that leads to another thought, which is that you might consider getting your extra throw via more brute power. My triple throws farther than my HDS hCRI even though the latter has a deeper reflector because the triple is much brighter. My vinhguyen P60 drop-in throws very well, partly due to a relatively deep reflector (for the P60 format) but probably mostly due to sheer output (around 700 lumens on high). It brightly lights up tree tops that are well over 100 yards away, doing much better than what I remember my Surefire LX2 doing, and I haven't even tried it in really dark (i.e., camping) environments.

I always thought the Oveready/Torchlab triples were a "wall of flood", albeit a super bright one. Just checked the site, see that they've added the 219 as an option.. hmm.

However I also know for a fact that it doesn't fit in the Elzetta - that means I've got to hunt for a new host. This thread is reminding me of my "flashlight hunting" days when I was new to CPF.

If your looking for high Cri thrower I would carry an Incan in addition to the LED. I know you'll say the Incan won't take the abuse and while that is correct to a degree... You probably won't be using your "thrower" as your main light.

I haven't carried it since I got my Malkoff but I used to carry a Five mega bi-pin and and it out throws my M61 HCRI by a long shot. When I carried my Incans (6P or E2e) they got dropped from 15 foot heights often and rarely gave me problems.

I used to carry a SureFire M2 w/ P91 and 2 IMR 16340s. The runtime was miserably short, and I stopped (except for occasions when I feel like carrying it). You're right on the throw though. And ican has.. something special. It's just not practical for me.

First of all, I cant imagine that a P60 style/size light with 3 XP-G's all shoved together in that mid sized head is going to have much throw, which was one of the criteria. Any time you shoehorn 3 LED's into a fairly smallish reflector, its going to be floody! What light isnt?

I would put my Eagletac G25C2 against anything Surefire makes for under $200. Specs: 1-18650 about P60 sized, maybe 1/2" longer. Great throw with mid sized spill beam. The XM-L U2 version has a nice neutral/white beam. Turbo runs at 640 ANSI/OTF lumens. It has 5 brightness settings, strobe and SOS. Thick, tough as nails. Simple to operate, with no complicated UI. Doesnt seem to overheat on high like some lights. Comes with nice holster, extra parts, etc. I paid $95 after $10 off coupon.

But it isn't high CRI. There are plenty of tough torches around, but none that fulfill both the HRCI and thrower criteria and remain tough (maybe the ArmyTek Predator, as one member has mentioned).

 

[loutsopo]

+1 ArmyTek Predator i have two of these lights and i think that i found what i was looking for.I have the G109.01 v2.0 Cree R4 5B1 5/24 Neutral White LED in smo and op reflector.Perfect.

 

[chanjyj]

Damned. I was really hoping that my eyes had gotten used to the higher power lights and it wasn't that the M61 219 was underpowered. So I gave myself some time for acclimatisation, hoping that I would get used to the "Maglite" days. I really loved the tint and rendering of that LED (let's put it this way - I don't want to give it up).

Tried again tonight. Anybody able to see the difference between the 2 photos? The Elzetta w/ M61 219 is turned on in one photo. This is pathetic - it's only 30m away! I thought the problem was with my eyes.

 

[twl]

Others are noticing the same dilemma.
It's an emitter situation.

Basically, the "Hi CRI" interest began after the larger emitters appeared. The smaller emitters such as the XRE were already fading out of use at that time, and the larger emitters such as the XPG and even the XML were into the mainstream. So, the Hi CRI treatments got applied to those, and their contemporaries.
The only problem is that these newer emitters are too big to throw well in a P60 size reflector.
The M61 isn't much of a thrower, and neither is anything else that's modern in a P60. I noticed this immediately several years ago when the XPG appeared, and all the lights lost their throw. We had great throwing P60 size lights that all of a sudden had wimpy throw, because they were changed from XRE emitters over to XPG emitters.

Nobody went back to apply the Hi CRI treatments to the older emitters with good throw like the XRE. Probably because it kills alot of the output power, and they were older lower efficiency emitters.
Sure, people can get good throw from an XPG, but not in a P60 size package. They need to make a larger head size to do it.
And the XML is even worse, but it makes it up with brute power and high battery drain.
This is the dilemma.
Probably the best hope at present would be to hope for a Hi CRI XPG-2 with 400 lumens, and just hope that the extra brute power will give you the throw you want. The XPG-2 is already out, and maybe they'll offer a Hi CRI version soon.

For me personally, I have not attempted to get into the Hi CRI fad, because it was too limiting. The emitters lost much of their output with the Hi CRI treatment, and I didn't think that the Hi CRI makes much real difference to me anyway. I can tell what the colors are with a regular emitter. And I use a M60 for throw in my Elzetta, and it throws an honest 135 meters. And the tint is pretty natural looking too. I use the emitter that can throw in that package size, and forget about the "need" for Hi CRI. I lived for my whole life without Hi CRI, and I don't need it now. What I need is a light that is sized like I want, to throw like I want. And that means it needs an XRE.

 

[chanjyj]

I too, had resisted high CRI initially. At tat time, the only production light with high CRI was Henry's Ra, which had too low output for me. A month back I decided to give it a shot, and the Nichia 219 really blew me away. I'm not sure the same would have happened if I had tried a XPG HRCI.

Sure, it's not a necessity. It's a preference, a want. I have plenty of flashlights that will do the job. Just none that is happens to have HCRI. It doesn't need to be in the P60 format. But those that aren't, are usually not up to the standard I demand of my lights.

Still in search of the perfect EDC light.

 

[twl]

Just a matter of compromise.
Since the perfect light isn't available, we have to pick the features that are most important to us.

I like the smaller head size like the P60 for easier carry, and I wanted some decent throw.
Hi CRI wasn't as important to me, and my rationalization was that if my light didn't reach the target, then the color rendition was zero.
So, I made my compromises, and the CRI was least important for my use. Easy carry was high priority, and so was seeing the target. High color rendition is nice, but was not worth sacrificing either of the other two requirements.
So, that's where I ended up.

I work in engineering. One of the first things learned is that everything is a compromise of one sort or another. There is no "perfect".

 

[CarpentryHero]

The Malkoff 219 is way floodier than it should be, I have an HDS120 modded with a 219 and it out throws the m61 219
Half most half the lumens and it's throwing like the hds120

 

[chanjyj]

The Malkoff 219 is way floodier than it should be, I have an HDS120 modded with a 219 and it out throws the m61 219
Half most half the lumens and it's throwing like the hds120

To think I wasted my money (again?)

 

[arek98]

I believe the XPG and 219 have exactly the same footprint, the differences in throw stemming from the slightly narrower viewing angle.

Nichia 219 has little thinner base that may also contribute to worse throw. LED may be little bit "out of focus" if reflector was designed for XP-G (as probably was). I know with Malkoff it is probably impossible to change that but with regular P60 drop-in it may be possible to separate reflector, sand its base down a litttle (0.3-0.5mm), mount it back and see how it works.

This is just an idea, I dind't try this and I don't know if this will help.

The other option I would try would be to use Ledil LXP2 or LXP3 RS optics.

 

[Mikeg23]

Several people in this thread have stated that the M61 HCRI throws more than the M61 219. I own a M61 HCRI and have considered getting the 219, based on Csshih beam shots (post #105 of The Official Malkoff Junkie Thread)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Junkie-thread-Part-2/page4&highlight=Malkoff

Based on this beam shot the 219 seems to put out a lot of light.

 

[chanjyj]

Nichia 219 has little thinner base that may also contribute to worse throw. LED may be little bit "out of focus" if reflector was designed for XP-G (as probably was). I know with Malkoff it is probably impossible to change that but with regular P60 drop-in it may be possible to separate reflector, sand its base down a litttle (0.3-0.5mm), mount it back and see how it works.

This is just an idea, I dind't try this and I don't know if this will help.

The other option I would try would be to use Ledil LXP2 or LXP3 RS optics.

Malkoff's are impossible to modify. I've have had to send one back to the US for fixing after some water ingress - I couldn't even remove the optic (M60).

 

[chanjyj]

Several people in this thread have stated that the M61 HCRI throws more than the M61 219. I own a M61 HCRI and have considered getting the 219, based on Csshih beam shots (post #105 of The Official Malkoff Junkie Thread)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Junkie-thread-Part-2/page4&highlight=Malkoff

Based on this beam shot the 219 seems to put out a lot of light.

The interesting thing is that motigg said that while the Malkoff XPG HCRI throws better than the 219, it has less output, leading to a somewhat similar performance at longer ranges (and the 219 would have an advantage in spill then). Refer to post#26 in this thread.