So when are we going to start seeing these handheld HID's in 4200K?

[ampdude]

I've been following HID for awhile now and I expected a long time ago that we would have some pretty nice handheld HID's by now that would blow away something like a Surefire M6. But the only ones I see out there are few and far between. The MicroFire doesn't have a very good quality rep. And the EZNite is impossible to find and 6000K.

It seems like mostly what it out there is spotlight type lights, N30, Thor conversion, AEPowerlight, X990, ect.

Btw, how hard is it to make an HID Maglite?

 

[copperfox]

From what I've read, the N30 is rather small and very portable for the amount of light it produces.

I think the biggest reason hand held HIDs aren't in widespread use is because of the cost. They also have a slow warm-up time.

 

[Patriot]

I've been following HID for awhile now and I expected a long time ago that we would have some pretty nice handheld HID's by now that would blow away something like a Surefire M6. But the only ones I see out there are few and far between.

Well, lights like you describe exist now, maybe just not in the brand or color temperature that you prefer. Battery, ballast and bulb technology is about as small as it's going to get for the time being so no significant changes or miniature components are going to revolutionize the size of a 35W HID into the size of an M6. The Boxer 24W is only very slightly larger than the M6, is double the output of the MN21, runs for 50+ minutes, is rechargeable and has a decent track record.

The only reason that the N30 and L35 came about was because a CPF enthusiast made it a point to use 4200K bulbs during the developmental stages. I'm sure it took some string pulling to locate a manufacturer who would supply the 4200s at a reasonable price. Since they're automotive based designs the color temperature in that watt range probable made it easier to attain, which wouldn't be the case with the smaller, lower watt bulbs like the 25W class. It seems that they're only made in the higher temperatures.

ampdude
The MicroFire doesn't have a very good quality rep.

I don't think they have too bad of a rep among CPFers either. They're fairly respected and offer a lot more consistency than G&P or the other ebay specials. I haven't heard many Microfire horror stories of the top of my head and personally, my Microfire has been good and so was the Boxer that I owned. I consider the AE lights a step above the previously mentioned and there is a choice of several more compact units including the Xenide 20W. It's reasonably priced, sized and beats the M6 for both run-time and output.

ampdude
Btw, how hard is it to make an HID Maglite?

It isn't, for guys with the tools and know how. The main issue or restriction there is the size. The internal dimensions within a mag only alow for tiny components such as the WA Solarc. The 10W and 14W output are about 600 and 1000 lumens respectively but WA doesn't make 4200K bulbs either. Both the Mac's Customs Mini HID's http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=206782 and the Eznite could be considered to be on par with M6 performance. Both lights will have better run time too.


It's possible that non-established entrepreneur might develop a hight quality, compact, 24-35W 4200K, housed in a compact alloy chassis of conventional form, for a good price..... but highly unlikely. The cost of research and manufacture is just too expensive and the market too small. Especially when LED technology is becoming more potent every day. A current manufacturer like Polarion could develop a small 25W light but remember that high quality = high cost. Surefire is also due to release two models of "compact" HID but once again the cost may be prohibitive, they probably won't use 4200K bulbs, and they won't be rechargeable.

Considering all of the technical and monetary HID obstacles in the way, one of the existing options might not be so bad if you're willing to waive an objection or two. The L35, WE Boxer, Microfire, Mac's Customs, and Eznite are just a few choices despite not being your dream light.

 

[tsask]

I've been following HID for awhile now.... MicroFire doesn't have a very good quality rep.

just as I was geting ready to step out of my 'LED safezone' and order a Microfire from 7777...... what's up?:thinking:

 

[ampdude]

Patriot 36, I'd probably be happy with a handheld 10W HID if it was 4200K.

Something the size of the EZNite. Performance would be close to an M6, it would be smaller and runtime would be more practical.

Of course 24W would be better.

 

[ampdude]

Thought I'd bump this thread for any new developments? I haven't been following HID's lately.

I guess 24W-35W are the most efficient?

 

[BVH]

Lots of choices in 24 to 35 Watt, Mag-Style hand helds in 4300K temp. Oracle and Tactical as two examples. Lots of threads here in the HID section.

 

[Patriot]

Thought I'd bump this thread for any new developments? I haven't been following HID's lately.

I guess 24W-35W are the most efficient?

As wattage increase HID becomes more efficeint. 25W is more efficient than 15W, 35W is more efficient than 25W, 50W is more efficient than 35W and so on.

Regarding particular lights, the sames ones exist as back at the beginning of this thread, plus there are several more in "4200-4300K." They're scattered throughout the HID section. There's a new 26W covertable from Tactical HID as well.

 

[ampdude]

Lots of choices in 24 to 35 Watt, Mag-Style hand helds in 4300K temp. Oracle and Tactical as two examples. Lots of threads here in the HID section.

I've seen the Oracle, I am interested in more quality though. And I'd like it to be more like Surefire M6 sized or smaller. I haven't checked out the Tactical, I'll look into that, thanks. :twothumbs

I think the lithium manganese battery technology that AW uses in his IMR cells seems appropriate for small HID's.

 

[Patriot]

I think M6 sized lights aren't very likely in the 25W class. The Boxer comes close but it's fatter and not a 4300K bulb. Hopefully WE will change that in the future so that I can buy another one. I say "not likely" because in a 25W class light you're going to need at least 3 x 18650 sized cells for practical runtimes, about 55-60 min. and you still need room for a ballast.

Using lithium manganese chemistry the run-time will drop 40%. It would be possible to run a 25W hid off of 3 x 16340's but the run-time would be 10 minutes or less. Completely impractical imo.

I'm not sure now WE manages to make a 7.6" 24W HID but I hope the other manufacturers try to duplicate this light with with 4300-5000K bulbs.

 

[ampdude]

Using lithium manganese chemistry the run-time will drop 40%.

Thanks for the reply, but I'm curious as to what you base this statement on. I have been using the IMR cells since they came out in my incandescent lights and my runtimes have actually improved over the old lithium cobalt cells. The only place where lithium cobalt batteries seem to have an advantage is in lower drain lights.

 

[Patriot]

Thanks for the reply, but I'm curious as to what you base this statement on. I have been using the IMR cells since they came out in my incandescent lights and my runtimes have actually improved over the old lithium cobalt cells. The only place where lithium cobalt batteries seem to have an advantage is in lower drain lights.

It depends on the size of the cell and how high of a load you're putting on them. On a .5A load the RCR123 still has an advantage. At 1.0A it's close, At 1.5A and higher the IMR's have the advantage but 123 cells lack capacity in general. When you go up to 18650 size at the loads we're talking about 2-3A the li-cobalt cells still have the advantage. At 2.0A a 2400mah 18650 still gives 2100-2200mah. I IMR 18650 only has 1600mah of capacity. Even at a 5A load the cobalt cells deliver more capacity according to Silverfox's tests.

Running 3 x RCR123's in my 10W gives me about 36 minutes of run-time while using 3 x 16340's in the same light gives me about 24 minutes. Going up to a 25W light the run-times will be shorter and not even possible for the cobalt cells.

I suppose you could build a 25W light based on 3 x 18490 cells but still you're only starting with 1100mah so you looking at 30-ish minute runtimes on an HID drawing 2.2A.