Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II

[KROMATICS]

The UA2 I got to try was surprisingly light for it's length. It was something I noticed straight away on being handed it.
That's not to say your general suggestion wasn't the case though.
From what I gather the UA2 issues were in range of focusing, details of the UI, and the UB2 issue was lack of sufficient quality/quantity/reliability high output LEDs.

And yet they can offer a UB3 which is the same aside from taking three batteries instead of two?

 

[N/Apower]

So...

Are these 4-die monster lumen lights going to be flood or throw?

Is my M600C KX2C going to become obsolete? Or is it going to take a 3-cell, much heavier light to beat it in throw (from SF)?

*feeling kinda bad as I JUST bought it.*

 

[ja10]

I was looking over the catalog pages again, eyeing the new LX1, and I am a little confused.

The catalog appears to put the L1 at 80 lumens for 1.5 hrs, but the T1A is 70 lumens for 4 hours. Am I reading that right? Being larger in size, I would guess that efficiency of the converter, heat issues, etc would all fall as an advantage of the LX1 since it is larger.

Any guesses as to the difference?

 

[RobertM]

I have a sneaky suspicion that we will see the following lights released shortly/first:
A2L
AZ2
E1B-SL
G3L-OD
LX1
LX2
T1A
HS1 (Saint)
HS2 (Saint)

-Robert

The question of the year is how shortly? :nana:

Unfortunately, that I do not know. :laughing:

For those who were wondering how I came to that specific list of upcoming lights...
I received my new SureFire M2 yesterday and registered it on SureFire.com/Register. When you register, you have to select your light via a drop-down list. Those lights in my list are already being listed!

Robert

 

[TMedina]

SF does market to military and law enforcement organizations, but the products are expensive and priorities have to be made.

3 years in the Army, one deployment to Iraq and the only SF product I've seen as issue was another unit sporting SF Scouts.

The only SF products I've handled in the course of my duty day are the ones I bought myself and the Scout I found in the road.

This isn't to say that there aren't units dealing with cutting edge, high speed gear - but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

For that matter, my unit never issued me a multi-tool, knife of any kind or even a flashlight. You can count on getting a very specific basic issue kit and just about anything else you have to acquire yourself. Mind you, the "basic issue" can vary wildly from post to post.

-Trevor

 

[monkeyboy]

I've noticed that the M3L and the M3LT both have high and low modes (350lm/60lm). It looks to be some sort of new 2-stage C tailswitch as opposed to a multi-click interface. I'm not sure how that works as a replacement head - anyone know? Do we also need to buy a 2-stage tailcap? Can we get a 2-stage tailcap for the M6?

 

[Kiessling]

It seems we don't know. Speculation has it that it will be the "mash down" tailcaps à la L1 et al.
Let's hope this is true. You might get just high mode then with the normal SW02 et al.
bernie

P.S.: speculation and assumptions above

 

[Size15's]

And yet they can offer a UB3 which is the same aside from taking three batteries instead of two?

SureFire haven't actually released the UB3 yet though have they?
I mean, if an element of the delay was that the LEDs weren't ready, and now 'a year on' the LEDs are more to SureFire's requirements then perhaps SureFire will be ready to release new high-output LED products this year?

 

[hurricane]

You could be correct. I was surprised to see the dollar value of SF's contracts with the Military in 2007. I thought that the Military contracts would be 10x larger, since SF offers many more tactical products beside handheld lights (suppressors, ear protection, weapon lights and mounting hardware and helmet lights).

2007 Government contract data was:

Surefire LLC.......................$1,202,901 ($1.2 million)

That's shockingly low. I agree, I would have thought it would be 10 or even 20 times that. You toss a few dozen Hellfighters into an order and that $1.2 mil gets gobbled-up pretty quickly. There has to be more to it. I would imagine they'd do that much business in a year just from the addicts on the CandlePower forum alone!

 

[Art Vandelay]

I think that is just for flashlights. According to the first post that listed those numbers, they are broken down by types of equipment. What about the batteries?

 

[chokker]

That seems very very low. I thought every one of our guys in iraq had some type of surefire device on them. you would think 1 million worth of batteries would have been ordered.

 

[L.E.D.]

I really can't stop craving that M3LT!!!

 

[Lightraven]

I think that includes batteries, since I paged through a prior year that had batteries under description.

I totally agree with TMedina, in the military and law enforcement. Surefire gear is still considered specialty items and relatively rare. From what I can tell, weaponlights may have trickled down to highly deployable light infantry like the 24th Infantry, maybe 10th Mountain, those types, but possibly not to heavy mechanized infantry and definitely not to non-infantry.

In my law enforcement agency, the tac team seems to have weaponlights on every M-4--one picture shows them with Pentagonlights, but everything else I've seen was SF.

By comparison, my patrol group has one or two shotguns and one M-4 with SF incandescent weaponlights, available for issue. They don't seem popular to check out, which might be surprising to gun and light buffs.

I have an X-300 for my handgun, but I prefer my rifle be unlighted, since my deploying my rifle indicates a very high risk situation that I don't want to use a light.

 

[baterija]

That seems very very low. I thought every one of our guys in iraq had some type of surefire device on them. you would think 1 million worth of batteries would have been ordered.

They don't. The majority of the troops located there won't ever go on a patrol at night or kick in a door.

Even if they did that wouldn't mean every year they would be buying a new light for each soldier, sailor, airman, or marine who stepped off the plane. Once the required number of lights were purchased to support the required issue density they would just be buying replacements for lights lost/destroyed.

 

[flash_bang]

So...

Are these 4-die monster lumen lights going to be flood or throw?

Is my M600C KX2C going to become obsolete? Or is it going to take a 3-cell, much heavier light to beat it in throw (from SF)?

*feeling kinda bad as I JUST bought it.*

I wouldn't sweat it, the E series stuff is a different class, if you will, of lights, it gives you runtime and brightness in a compact package, and these 4 die "monster" lights, as you say, will be just that: bigger in every way. :twothumbs:naughty:

 

[hurricane]

I really can't stop craving that M3LT!!!

I'm right there with you on that one ... that's the first one I'm buying!

 

[Monocrom]

That seems very very low. I thought every one of our guys in iraq had some type of surefire device on them. you would think 1 million worth of batteries would have been ordered.

As TMedina pointed out, some units don't even get what many would consider essential tools. As is often the case, soldiers have to buy their own multi-tools, knives, and even flashlights. :shakehead

 

[hurricane]

While I think military personnel should be given the absolute best tools to do their job [and protect themselves], there may be some instances where buying your own accruements may be a good thing. In Canada, our troops are probably issued disposable dollar store plastic flashlights with 0.5 lumens of output ... that may be an exaggeration, but I'm probably not far off. It's total BS really ... give these people the most hardcore, well engineered kit available - period. The one problem with having personnel purchase their own knives and flashlights etc. is some may cheap-out and being in the middle of a war is no place for your gear to fail ... especially when you really NEED it. The other issue is parts/batteries. Standardization is the way to go ... any additional gear you want to purchase is fair game. But dammit-all give them some sweet-a$$ gear.

 

[Size15's]

The reality is there has to be a balance of resources.
The British Armed Forces for example is often seen as not especially well resourced but this has encouraged them to be resourceful themselves and get the job done regardless.
There is also less risk of becoming over-reliant on kit.

Of course the exception for us is that we must have the ability to make a cup of tea at all times and pretty much every vehicle has a dedicated tea-making (water-boiling) facility designed into it right from the start.

Given the choice between flashlights and teabags, and I'm sure choices are a matter of life in resource-stretched fighting forces, I have no doubt we would take the tea.

 

[Lightraven]

One thing to remember is that weaponlights are primarily a SWAT invention. Only hostage rescue military units had any use for flashlights on weapons, for the most part.

As infantry units have been forced into a law enforcement role in Iraq and Afghanistan, their tools and tactics have had to become more LE--you don't frag rooms before clearing them with full auto in a civilian environment. You bang them (if that) and clear them with light.

Only the soldiers tasked with these missions are likely to get lights on their weapons, or relatively expensive Surefire handheld lights. The guy driving the water truck (and God bless him) gets an old plain jane M-16, and isn't expected to clear terrorist safe houses. His issued flashlight is a grey Fulton with a traffic cone on it. He probably picks up a Camo Mini Mag at the exchange.

The real scandal is the M-4, M-9, M-24 and M-249 and respective ammunition. The English have suffered their bullpup rifle even worse. All these weapons should be scrapped and reliable, hard hitting guns replace them.