Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

[Kestrel]

IIRC, there was a 3xCR123 prototype SF A3 Aviator; I have seen pics here many years ago.

Back in the good old days, we saw more of those eye-popping oddballs that the 'old guard' posted. :sigh:

 

[fivemega]

It doesn't seem that it would be that hard for someone skilled in the machinist arts to make a single-cell extension for the A2, making it an "A3".
I don't have any 16500 cells, and have not tested the fit.

I have tested 2500mAh Keeppower protected 16650 which is too tight to fit an A2 body.
It's easily possible to make extension tube but there are few problems.
1- Finding some 16500 with acceptable capacity which will fit in A2 body.
2- Color matching of natural HA which normally may vary from olive drab to grey. Black is easier.
3- Even if we found right battery set, brightest option is Strion bulb which is slightly brighter than original bulb while some people wish to get at least double the brightness.

IIRC, there was a 3xCR123 prototype SF A3 Aviator; I have seen pics here many years ago.

There was discussions about A3 many times but I can't remember any prototype picture.
Years ago I talked to Mr. William Hunt about brighter option of regulated incandescent but never got answer from him.
I also talked to owner of BCS PowerStick who is friend of Michael (Surefire owner) about more powerful BCS
We agreed about price and quantity then paid some deposit (2/3 of grand total) but this never happened. I did not see any interest from his side and returned the deposit.
BCS was similar to this but powered by 4S/2P alkalines and regulated to 3.6 volt with soft start.

 

[Kestrel]

Gee I hope I'm not incorrect ? :thinking:

I know that SF had a few of the 'Digital' regulated incan prototypes - incl. a 3-cell version - but discontinued that evolutionary line in favor of LED development. So maybe not an A-series aviator perhaps ...

 

[StudFreeman]

Gee I hope I'm not incorrect ? :thinking:

I know that SF had a few of the 'Digital' regulated incan prototypes - incl. a 3-cell version - but discontinued that evolutionary line in favor of LED development. So maybe not an A-series aviator perhaps ...

I think I recall talk of an A3 prototype so it's not just you.

I definitely recall seeing a picture of a turbohead A2.

 

[DayofReckoning]

The line was originally called "Digital Fusion" but that name was scrapped due to a trademark issue. A few lights with this branding escaped Surefire. I"m sure they would be worth bookoo dollars if ever shown up on the marketplace.

If someone would make a 1 cell extender for the Aviator so that 1 more CR123 primary could be run, I would buy a few in a heartbeat.

 

[soldonsurefire]

Reading on this forum is like learning a new language.LOL.

I've been fortunate to own two of these lights,one an original with clear led's and a newer one with red led's.

 

[ampdude]

I think I recall talk of an A3 prototype so it's not just you.

I definitely recall seeing a picture of a turbohead A2.

I remember both of those things as well. I think it would have been a better light in a three cell version with a turbohead, and if they had decided to drive the main bulb a little harder. The A2 lamp is too orange IMO compared to most Surefire unregulated lamps with fresh cells or lithium ions. The three cells and turbohead would have made it more up to its intended task as a small aircraft inspection light. I love the A2, but I'm never going to sing praises about the output lumens, throw ability, or the color temperature of the main lamp. Yet it's cool for so many other reasons.

 

[DayofReckoning]

I remember both of those things as well. I think it would have been a better light in a three cell version with a turbohead, and if they had decided to drive the main bulb a little harder. The A2 lamp is too orange IMO compared to most Surefire unregulated lamps with fresh cells or lithium ions. The three cells and turbohead would have made it more up to its intended task as a small aircraft inspection light. I love the A2, but I'm never going to sing praises about the output lumens, throw ability, or the color temperature of the main lamp. Yet it's cool for so many other reasons.

That's demonstrably false. With all due respect, if that's your experience with the A2 then something is wrong with either your eyes or your light. The A2's beam is 3300K, or higher with lamps like the LumensFactory lamp, which is listed as 3350K, and is whiter than just about every combination I've used. How you describe the A2's beam as "orange" is beyond me. One of the most common praises of the A2 has always been how white the beam is.

And the most important point to make is the CCT is the same at the end of the run as it was at the beginning. No other Surefire combination of battery/ lamp/ light can make this claim.

 

[ampdude]

That's demonstrably false. With all due respect, if that's your experience with the A2 then something is wrong with either your eyes or your light. The A2's beam is 3300K, or higher with lamps like the LumensFactory lamp, which is listed as 3350K, and is whiter than just about every combination I've used. How you describe the A2's beam as "orange" is beyond me. One of the most common praises of the A2 has always been how white the beam is.

And the most important point to make is the CCT is the same at the end of the run as it was at the beginning. No other Surefire combination of battery/ lamp/ light can make this claim.

I'm well aware of this. I think people's views have been tainted by the "white" (angry blue) LED's in the majority of the Aviators out there, and that affects the perception of the beam color.

I do prefer tungsten based lamps that are more highly driven than the A2 does with the OEM lamp assembly, and even the Lumens Factory version.

I've done many lamp tests in the past on different A2's vs. other Surefire lamp assemblies and concluded that the A2 lamp should be driven harder.

We all know it has a reputation for being bomb proof because of the soft start, but I think it is also not driven as hard as other lamps in the Surefire line at the time.

I prefer a lamp assembly that is being driven at the high end of 3000K.

Also, the CCT is not the same at the end as at the beginning as at the end of the run most A2 lights go into a "low" incan mode when the batteries reach the last quarter of their life.

But I think that the CCT is not very great to begin with, compared to a highly driven incan.

 

[DayofReckoning]

I'm well aware of this. I think people's views have been tainted by the "white" (angry blue) LED's in the majority of the Aviators out there, and that affects the perception of the beam color.

I do prefer tungsten based lamps that are more highly driven than the A2 does with the OEM lamp assembly, and even the Lumens Factory version.

I've done many lamp tests in the past on different A2's vs. other Surefire lamp assemblies and concluded that the A2 lamp should be driven harder.

We all know it has a reputation for being bomb proof because of the soft start, but I think it is also not driven as hard as other lamps in the Surefire line at the time.

I prefer a lamp assembly that is being driven at the high end of 3000K.

Also, the CCT is not the same at the end as at the beginning as at the end of the run most A2 lights go into a "low" incan mode when the batteries reach the last quarter of their life.

But I think that the CCT is not very great to begin with, compared to a highly driven incan.

I'm afraid this post shows you are misinformed. The A2 with the factory lamp is driven at 3300K. The LumensFactory lamp is even hotter at 3350K. That is as hot and white as it gets. You say you prefer "the high end of 3000K", yet criticize the A2, which is achieving CCT higher than what you say you prefer.

And yes, the A2's CCT is the same at the end of the run as it is at the beginning, and when I say end of the run, that means right before the batteries don't have enough juice to fully fire up the lamp. So I'll reword it as follows, "same at 26% as when 100%. I don't consider the dim incandescent mode to be part of the actual run.

 

[DayofReckoning]

So last night I did a little hike out in some local woods with 3 lights with me. A Surefire E2E with a fresh Lumens Factory EO-E1R lamp and a fully charged Keeppower 16650, my A2 Aviator with a LumensFactory lamp that has been in there for a long time, and has developed a little darkening of the glass envelope, and another A2 Aviator with a brand new fresh LumensFactory lamp. I really wanted test these lights out amongst the deep woods in total darkness.

As far as color temperature is concerned, both A2's beat the hotly driven E2E hands down. The beam from the A2 with the older lamp beat the E2E in whiteness, and against the A2 with the fresh lamp, it wasn't even a contest.

Despite the smaller, shallower reflector of the E2E, it did seem to match the throw of the A2's quite well, they are very similar. I am impressed with the E2E in this regard.

Upon coming home, thinking of the comments in this thread, I decided to do one further test. I swapped out the EO-E1R in the E2E for a HO-E2R and two fresh IMR 16340's, and swapped out the LumensFactory lamp in the A2 for the factory MA-02. Not surprisingly, the A2 STILL beat the E2E in the color temperature department, appearing noticeably whiter in temperature.

After this testing, it has confirmed to me what I already knew, that the color temperature of the A2's beam is one of this lights greatest attributes.

 

[bykfixer]

Isn't the A2 regulated?

I tried a Tads bi-pin bulb vs the SureFire lamp and prefer the Tads. Better beam overall and a bit brighter. But the SureFire lamp assembly throws better. Haven't tried the LF in an A2 but love, love, love 'em in my E1's and 2's.

I use primaries.

 

[DayofReckoning]

Isn't the A2 regulated?

I tried a Tads bi-pin bulb vs the SureFire lamp and prefer the Tads. Better beam overall and a bit brighter. But the SureFire lamp assembly throws better. Haven't tried the LF in an A2 but love, love, love 'em in my E1's and 2's.

I use primaries.

Sure is regulated, with soft starting too. That's what makes the A2 so special.

I'm surprised to hear the stock A2 bulb outthrows the Tads bulb, as the stock A2 bulb tip is frosted, which hurts the throw a bit. The LumensFactory lamp throws a bit better than the stock bulb, and is a bit brighter and whiter as well. I would like to see a comparison between the Tads bulbs and the LumensFactory bulbs.

I also run Primaries in mine as well.

 

[bykfixer]

A side by side with an oem bulb and a Tads

It seems the frosted tip helps disperse the hot spot a bit. So regarding throw, the Tads beam goes farther in a very narrow area. At 50 yards for example it'll light up a dog or a deer. At that distance the SureFire bulb will light up two or 3 deer standing near each other.

I considered a Lumens Factory bulb module. 2 would've been about the cost of a Tads adapter and some bulbs. Some bulbs = 10 so on the 3rd bi-pin I'd be in the black as it were.
I bought a few SureFire modules and stashed them when they hit the $35 mark. Then I bought a few A2's since they still had stock bulbs. My most ugliest, beat up one so worn the letters are gone is the one I carry. I don't mind the stock blue fringed Mickey Mouse silouette beam from the LED's at all.

I've never understood all the fuss about beam patterns and such. I hit the on button, light comes out.... good enough. Especially when it helps me find dropped keys or keeps me from tripping over a tree root.
To me it's like getting all in a tizzy about the pitch of the clicking sound when tightening a screw with a ratchet.

 

[DayofReckoning]

BKYFIXER, how quickly do the Tads bulbs blacken/get dark? My experience with the stock Surefire bulb is it takes a very, very, long time for them to start to darken.

The LumensFactory bulbs seem to darken much faster than the Surefire bulbs in my experience.

 

[bykfixer]

Well, to be honest the one I'm using hasn't become darkened, or at least that I can see. But the bulb doesn't get used all that much. Maybe 3 hours so far.... maybe less.

PK once told me that he had hired a PhD while he worked at SureFire to perform R&D for light bulb gas. He also did performance analysis for durability and darkening. He said back then computers did math for determining potential issues (instead of doing the work in real time). That one computer could take up to five days to solve a math problem. Well, the PhD wanted to work on other stuff while the computer did it's thing. So PK bought him 5 of the best computers available at the time. Of course todays computer could probably solve 5 of those problems in minutes.

Anyway, it seems that SureFire has a patented recipe for a combo of krypton and xenon gas that is a better kept secret than the recipe for Coca-Cola.

I think Tad uses xenon, and a similar arrangement of parts and pieces as Maglite used in their PR based xenons. The Maglite xenon were pretty good.

 

[DayofReckoning]

Surefire lamps are undoubtley the finest ever made. I had a MN30 that ran for an ungodly amount of time, and when it did finally blow, it was because I fired up the lamp directly hot off the charger. Had I let the battery settle for a little while, it probably would have kept going.

 

[bykfixer]

To me, primaries are more predictable. But the times I use rechargeables they have rested over night. Example, I keep 3 of 4 16340's charged for a one cell LED daily and charge the one when it needs it. So there are 3 ready to go. And if the need for those takes place before I can reach a charger I keep one of them charged and switch to a primary in that light for longer runtime(s).

I'm very careful about using rechrageable batteries in a light that uses a $10+ bulb module.

 

[DayofReckoning]

That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.

 

[novice]

That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.

The circuitry in Koala's led "Onion Rings" will handle 2x Li-ion cells. I don't know enough about Calipsoii's led rings to address whether or not they will also handle 2x Li-ion cells safely.