surefire E2D LED Defender vrs Olight M20 Warrior PREMIUM

[CdBoy]

just bought an E2D Led Defender last month. i already got E2D Defender. with LED plus the durability of the E2D nothing beats it hands down!

go for the E2D LED Defender.

p.s. with the Crenalated Bezel (this is a good thing for self-defense). Surefire torches are built to last (read the testimonials from people of different walks of life.

 

[mefistofele86]

i bought an Olight M20 warrior premium few days ago.
It's really a great flashlight. I've got the smooth reflector too and with this reflector the throw became very very good!
M20 is brighter than my pd30 and the colour of cree R2 is warmer. I like it very much. It seems the light of sun XD

Finally i suggest the Olight because it's a great solution at a good price

 

[maxilux]

When you want the most output take the M20, when you want a great name take the SF.

 

[richardcpf]

and we all know that surefire far understates their lumen values.

I know surefire underrates their lights

SF don't underrate their lumen value. No manufacturer would do this, what kind of marketing strategy is that? Unlike other brands, SF states the OTF lumens and not bulb or torch tumens. And the typical beam of SF's are narrow, tigh spot, small flood area. The E2DL can throw farther than a 225 lumens flashlight, but that doesn't mean it is brighter.

When you want the most output take the M20, when you want a great name take the SF.

So true

 

[Strauss]

I must have a factory freak E2DL. In bounce tests with my light meter to gauge overall output, my two brightest single-LED lights WERE my Malkoff M60 and Eagletac T10L. My newly recently aquired E2DL barley edges out both of them. I have tested this many times, even a few different ways and the Surefire always comes out on top. Going off my readings, my E2DL is putting out at least 200 lumens out the front! And from the brilliant white beam it blasts out, I believe it!

 

[maxilux]

I must have a factory freak E2DL. In bounce tests with my light meter to gauge overall output, my two brightest single-LED lights WERE my Malkoff M60 and Eagletac T10L. My newly recently aquired E2DL barley edges out both of them. I have tested this many times, even a few different ways and the Surefire always comes out on top. Going off my readings, my E2DL is putting out at least 200 lumens out the front! And from the brilliant white beam it blasts out, I believe it!

You have a light meter, wich can measure Lumens ?

 

[phantom23]

He doesn't have one (probably), he does 'bounce' test which overrate lumens in focused lights. You can see it by naked eye - focused beam seems brighter than it really is (I can see it clearly with my LedLenser P7).

 

[MrGman]

I must have a factory freak E2DL. In bounce tests with my light meter to gauge overall output, my two brightest single-LED lights WERE my Malkoff M60 and Eagletac T10L. My newly recently aquired E2DL barley edges out both of them. I have tested this many times, even a few different ways and the Surefire always comes out on top. Going off my readings, my E2DL is putting out at least 200 lumens out the front! And from the brilliant white beam it blasts out, I believe it!

This has been disputed so many times its ridiculous. You cannot measure lumens or accurately estimate lumens off of a ceiling bounce test for different type of beam pattern lights. There is a reason that Integration Sphere systems cost $10K and need calibration to take accurate lumens measurements.

Your E2DL has a tight well focused beam, that doesn't make it 200 lumens because the hot spot looks brighter than known 200 plus lumens lights.

I just got one yesterday (finally) it will be in the Integration Sphere tomorrow morning and the truth will be revealed.

 

[steveG]

MrGman, It'll be interesting to see if you get similar results.

The E2DL is definitely a, 'hell of a light.
While I agree that 120lm is under rated it's nowhere close to 200-240lm. We tested one in a calibrated integrating sphere and saw results in the 160's.
The Fenix, Olight, LumaPower, etc tactical class lights are noticeably brighter and actually test at 200+lm.

EDIT: By the way, I love my E2DL. The only thing I don't like about it is the crenelated head.

 

[MattK]

SF The E2DL can throw farther than a 225 lumens flashlight, but that doesn't mean it is brighter.

The M20 will out-throw the E2DL by a considerable margin.

There is a reason that Integration Sphere systems cost $10K and need calibration to take accurate lumens measurements.

Let me know where one can get a good sphere for 10K - we've been shopping and you really need to spend $20K to get a good 10" with all the necessary paraphenalia. The calibration bulbs alone are $2K - insane.

MrGman, It'll be interesting to see if you get similar results.
EDIT: By the way, I love my E2DL. The only thing I don't like about it is the crenelated head.

Remember that the testing that we do, even with a calibrated sphere isn't statistically significant - we're usually only testing one sample of light and emitters, even in a single output bin, can vary in output ~5% or more.

I'd love to see an 'E2DL' in a non-crenelated design - fortunately we'll be seeing that in the LX2 uh eventually.

 

[jac2001]

This has been disputed so many times its ridiculous. You cannot measure lumens or accurately estimate lumens off of a ceiling bounce test for different type of beam pattern lights. There is a reason that Integration Sphere systems cost $10K and need calibration to take accurate lumens measurements.

Your E2DL has a tight well focused beam, that doesn't make it 200 lumens because the hot spot looks brighter than known 200 plus lumens lights.

I just got one yesterday (finally) it will be in the Integration Sphere tomorrow morning and the truth will be revealed.

I can't wait MrGman! Been waiting on this one!
I also believe the SF E2DL will not output 200 lumens, although I do not think it will be the factory rating of 120 lumens!! I had this light before I got my Malkoff M60, and seriously thought I had a bad drop-in from Gene at first! But as I played with them I realized that the Malkoff had a great deal more spill, not that the E2DL doesn't produce 'useable spill', and that out here in the country I had so much need of a light with this much spill!! The beam of the SF is impressive, but only a little spill, leaving the areas not directly in the path of the beam, very dark in comparison to the M60.

Also, check out this thread I found earlier today, it lists the E2DL on page one of the spreadsheet at 171 estimated lumens.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2846985

and his spreadsheet...

http://www.3500z.com/Misc/Lights/Integrating Cylinder Results.xls

Although, the official results won't be in until MrGman posts his results!!! Can't wait!!!!

 

[steveG]

I'd love to see an 'E2DL' in a non-crenelated design - fortunately we'll be seeing that in the LX2 uh eventually.

Exactly! I already emailed you about it! Do you know if the LX2 will have the same optics/beam as the E2DL?

Also, for those interested in the E2DL with no crenelations, take a look at this thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/221359

 

[MattK]

I can't say if it's the same but it does use a similar looking TIR optic.

I'm at home today but it's likely I don't have any of the answers that I'm guessing you were looking for.

 

[steveG]

I sent the email last week and yes, you didn't have the answers I was after... Ha! No worries. i'll be patient.

Back on topic...

 

[pipspeak]

its far superior save for a few things.

e2dL
no questions asked fix policy at their store (1 mile away from home)
waterproof- tried and tested.
tried and tested mounted on firearms, sustained abuse aplications.

I was under the impression that the E2DL is NOT a great weapons light because of its well-documented ability to switch modes when dropped (in other words, not recoil-resistant). Unless this was fixed.

 

[MattK]

Good point - I don't know if the E2DL is weapon mount tested either.

 

[MrGman]

I can't wait MrGman! Been waiting on this one!
I also believe the SF E2DL will not output 200 lumens, although I do not think it will be the factory rating of 120 lumens!! I had this light before I got my Malkoff M60, and seriously thought I had a bad drop-in from Gene at first! But as I played with them I realized that the Malkoff had a great deal more spill, not that the E2DL doesn't produce 'useable spill', and that out here in the country I had so much need of a light with this much spill!! The beam of the SF is impressive, but only a little spill, leaving the areas not directly in the path of the beam, very dark in comparison to the M60.

Also, check out this thread I found earlier today, it lists the E2DL on page one of the spreadsheet at 171 estimated lumens.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2846985

and his spreadsheet...

http://www.3500z.com/Misc/Lights/Integrating Cylinder Results.xls

Although, the official results won't be in until MrGman posts his results!!! Can't wait!!!!

Cannot take the integrating "cylinder" serious at all. Therefore can't take any of the readings serious either. Thanks for the laugh .

Should have real readings posted by 07:00 Monday morning if all goes well. Your observations about a lot of the Malkoff energy going into the spill that the E2DL doesn't have as to why there is a difference is correct. I have said it before different beam patterns are different beam patterns and cannot be used to determine lumen output of one to another. I have 200 lumen lights that put a nice bright spot in the middle of my 700 lumen output lights that are more flood. I don't assume that they must have been underestimated and are really 700 lumen spot lights.

that's not to say that the E2DL is not a handy little light with a useful beam, it is nice, is it as useful as something with more of spread to the beam, I would say in most real world applications no, but in some applications yes. G

 

[N/Apower]

Cannot take the integrating "cylinder" serious at all. Therefore can't take any of the readings serious either. Thanks for the laugh .

Should have real readings posted by 07:00 Monday morning if all goes well. Your observations about a lot of the Malkoff energy going into the spill that the E2DL doesn't have as to why there is a difference is correct. I have said it before different beam patterns are different beam patterns and cannot be used to determine lumen output of one to another. I have 200 lumen lights that put a nice bright spot in the middle of my 700 lumen output lights that are more flood. I don't assume that they must have been underestimated and are really 700 lumen spot lights.

that's not to say that the E2DL is not a handy little light with a useful beam, it is nice, is it as useful as something with more of spread to the beam, I would say in most real world applications no, but in some applications yes. G

I am betting output is in excess of 160L. Test it before calling BS on me

 

[MrGman]

I am betting output is in excess of 160L. Test it before calling BS on me

In order to be "betting" on it you have to put something on the line, otherwise its just an unsupported opinion with no cash to back up the bravado. Are you willing to donate the Gman flashlight testing fund if you are wrong????? ??? ??? ???

 

[N/Apower]

In order to be "betting" on it you have to put something on the line, otherwise its just an unsupported opinion with no cash to back up the bravado. Are you willing to donate the Gman flashlight testing fund if you are wrong????? ??? ??? ???

Vltor SM-CK scout mount, NIB.
lightly used R2 Superbright "290L" P60 module sans outer-spring.
LNIB KAC VFG.
LNIB McGizmo clicky for E2DL/M600 (one of the "lighter" colored one's, not black)

Any of the 3 should be flipp-able for cash if you don't want them. Pick one and let me know what you bring to the table.

If you want to up the ante (start talking PMAG's, Ammo, ect.) I have an LNIB pressure-switch from a Surefire M600A.