What guns do you own?

[CPFBiology]

Also considering eventually picking up an AR-15. I hear they are lots of fun to shoot. They have been legalized for Canada as well.

 

[Elderberry]

I don't own a Glock. But I do own 4 or 5 M1911's. Glocks are great weapons. My son has one in .45apc and he loves it. To me it feels like a block of 2x4 wood in my hand -- but that's my fault and not the guns. The point is every gun feels different to every shooter. To me there is no pistol that feels better than a single stack M1911 -- they just fit me well.

You need to shoot both and see which feels better to you. One thing I have learned the hard way is if they don't feel good I will never learn to like them. So I've learned to not buy guns that do not feel good in my hand -- I can never learn to shoot them well.

Go try someone else's or go to a commercial range that rents guns and try them out before you invest your money...

 

[GRunner]

Hello CPFBiology,

Your list of rules in response #14 are fine. There is one that in my opinion is missing. Your rule #3 comes close but is not the same thing. I would suggest that you add to it to--- Keep you finger completely off the trigger until your on target and ready to shoot.

People have shot themselves while drawing a pistol from the holster because their finger was on the trigger. During the draw they have shot the ground between themselves and the target because their finger was on the trigger. People have been startled and by reflex clinched their hand pulling the trigger unintentionally. All of these things can be avoided by doing the above.

 

[GRunner]

I want to make something clear about the above statement. When I say Keep your finger completely off the trigger until your on target and ready to shoot. I mean your trigger finger is outside of the trigger guard and laying along side the frame of the gun until your on target. At that time your finger would enter the trigger guard and make contact with the trigger.
I thought some people might think it's all right to leave the trigger finger inside the trigger guard with the finger off the trigger, it's not. If you change your mind about shooting that round off, your finger should come out of the trigger guard and lay along side the frame until your ready to shoot agian.

 

[smokinbasser]

Your mentioning to keep your finger out of the trigger guard till you are ready to shoot seems to be common sense but floating around the internet videos is the sheriffs deputy who before holstering his side arm neglected to remove his finger from off the trigger and put a round in his own foot and scared everybody in the station. We can preach and preach but some need to have an AD to wake them up hopefully and not put a round in their body or anyone else for that matter. To quote one of the History Channels mountain men"common sense ain't so common any more" I got my 1st rifle at age 10 and had handling safety mantras all the time so I would not screw up and have any ADs

 

[Flying Turtle]

Got a Winchester 94 around here that my Dad gave me forty years ago. Just like the one I used to shoot my first (and only) deer.

Geoff

 

[Mikeg23]

I have always been a big Glock fan... The different models are all just numbers so yes the difference between a G19 and G21 is just size and caliber.

Any of the well known brand names will likely be good as someone mentioned there maybe models that were "lemons". So the good would be, in no particular order, Glock, Kahr, Smith, Ruger, Springfield, Walther, Berreta, Sig, H&K, Colt, Kimber, Wilson Combat, Night Hawk, Keltec, Taurus*, and more... I included Taurus an Keltec but some of their earlier stuff left something to be desired.

I'd say find something that fits your hand well and go from there.
Stay away from High point, Jennings, brayco, anything that sounds to good to be true.

I also heard that the Colt .45 1911 is back in action with the Marines. I am not one to be influenced by the crowd (usually), but this may affect my choice(s).

I would guess your talking about the Kimber Det-1, the civilian version is called the Kimber Warrior. The answer to your original question: in my opinion the only handgun worth spending $1000+ on is the 1911. They are pretty sweet to shoot and very accurate.

 

[Mikeg23]

Also considering eventually picking up an AR-15. I hear they are lots of fun to shoot. They have been legalized for Canada as well.

Yes very fun and you can build them to shoot a variety of calibers including .22 or 9mm as well as many others. Olympic arms even used to make an AR that took Glock mags... For that matter what ever hand gun you choose there may be a rifle that takes the same mags. Ex: beretta CX4, Keltec Sub 2000, etc

 

[idleprocess]

I own/have owned/shot several firearms. Will relay my impressions on everything I can recall...

Pistols
Browning Buckmark .22LR target pistol. Striker-fired. Metal frame. Like all .22 autoloaders, it's sensitive to ammunition choice and needs to be well-cleaned/lubricated. Accurate due to fixed barrel and appreciable mass. Magazines aren't very good quality and expensive - recommend something like "the ultimate cliploader" to make reloading less painful if you choose one of these.
Glock 17 Full size double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Polymer frame. Glocks are kind of like the Honda Civic of handguns ... neither pretty nor high-performing, but they can handle the abuse and run forever. For all the detractors of "tactical tupperware", polymer-framed guns have proved amazingly durable.
Glock 21 Full size double-stack .45ACP. Striker-fired. Polymer frame. Didn't much care for it. Recoil not so manageable. I've got big hands and it was like trying to grip a 2x4.
Magnum Research Baby Eagle (Full size, I think) double-stack .45ACP. Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Heavy, severe recoil, overall unpleasing to use. Somewhat surprising since it's a CZ-75 knockoff (licensed), but then again the CZ-75 isn't made in .45...
Sig P220 Full size single stack .45ACP. Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Like it. Manageable recoil, easy to grip. Has a hammer and a decocker. Occasionally the punchline when someone asks "what 1911 should I get?".
Sig P226 Full size double-stack .40 S&W. Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Heavy to help deal with the appreciable snap of .40 S&W. Like it. Very accurate.
Sig P6 compact single-stack 9mm (joke is that it's an 80% scale P220). Hammer-fired. Metal frame. Like it. Decently accurate, mild recoil.
Sig Pro Full size double-stack 9mm. Hammer-fired. Polymer frame. Didn't shoot this a lot, but the fact that the magazine completed the lower part of the forward grip profile was a bit weird on recoil.
Springfield 1911 Full size single stack .45ACP. Metal frame. For me, this was better than the Glock 21, about the same as the P220. Shooting one was not the spiritual experience that 1911 aficionados would have had me think it was going to be.
Springfield XD-9 Full size double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Polymer frame. My impression of it was similar to the Glock 17. I believe it had a lower grip angle.
Springfield XD-9 subcompact Subcompact double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Essentially the XD-9 with a shorter barrel/slide and shorter grip. Accepts full-size magazines with a sleeve to make the grip profile identical to the full-size, leading to some weird sensations on recoil
S&W M&P 9 Full size double-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. Good ergonomics. Trigger safety is a bit weird at first.
Walther P99 Compact double-stack 9mm or .40 S&W. Striker-fired. Beautiful gun that's an ergonomic wonder. Kicks something fierce in .40 and may eject the mag when shooting one-handed (would likely be a great gun in 9mm). Available with a number of trigger configurations; the one I shot was in double/single-action - since it's striker-fired, if you decock your next shot will be in heavier double-action.
Walther PPS Subcompact single-stack 9mm. Striker-fired. I'm quite the fan of it. Intended for carry, the PPS is appreciable more "shootable" than the true pocket guns in 9mm and .380ACP that doesn't fatigue the user so terribly. OK accuracy for its size. Extended magazines (7- or 8-rd) extend the grip, leading to some weird sensations on recoil. Stock 6-rd magazine leaves no place for your pinkie finger.

Revolvers
North American Arms mini Micro revolvers in numerous rimfire calibers. I'm familiar with their 5-shot .22mag variety. Useless with the stock grip - you can't even pretend to aim since recoil will tip it up appreciably. I gather the optional folding "belt clip" grip remedies this problem, making it about as accurate as a snub-nose revolver.
Ruger Blackhawk Single-action 6-shot in a variety of calibers. It's essentially a Colt Peacemaker replica (think nearly every Western movie ever) with improved sights. I'm familiar with the ~7" barrel variety in .45LC - an immense and heavy weapon. Very manageable recoil. A bit pricey to operate in .45LC. I kind of wish I'd gotten the nearly-identical New Vaquero (without the improved sights).
Ruger GP100 Double-action 6-shot. I'm familiar with the .357 4" barrel version. Unsurprisingly, it's a bit sedate with .38 SPL and lively with hot .357 rounds. Its mass helps with the recoil with heavier loads. Single- vs double-action fire are entirely different experiences... for me, double-action will start to tear skin off my trigger finger after >50 rds of .357.
Ruger Single-Six Single-action 6-shot in .22LR / .22mag. With .22LR, this has essentially zero recoil. With .22mag, the recoil is slight. Accurate, although a bit more accurate with .22mag since .22LR is 0.222" in diameter and .22mag is 0.224". Fun to shoot.

Rifles
AR-15 Semi-automatic .223Remington / 5.56x45. The AR-15 has so many varieties that it's sort of a challenge to write a short description. I've handled them with everything from heavy 20" barrels to lightweight 14.5" barrels. Recoil is pretty manageable since the bullets are pretty light (but generally moving at >3000 FPS at the muzzle). Controls (safety, mag eject, slide release, charging handle) are fairly well thought out. Can be "sub-MoA" accurate at short ranges. Fairly affordable to operate with cheaper ammo so long as you don't abuse its semi-auto nature. The trick with the AR-15 is to avoid bolting on accessories worth 8 times more than the rifle that make it pointlessly heavy.
AK-47 knockoffs Semi-automatic 7.62x39. Build quality on these is all over the map. Ergonomics are not very good. I've handled Romanian (bottom of the barrel) and Yugoslavian (a step or two over the Romanians). These are not target rifles - their accuracy rapidly approaches "minute of man" beyond 200 yards, largely as a function of the immense bolt that rides somewhat loosely within the receiver. Recoil is subsequently unpleasant.
CETME Semi-automatic 7.62x51. Severe recoil similar to the AK-47 thanks to its even larger bolt within the receiver (this is due to its nature as a roller-delayed blowback action). These rifles maul brass to the point that using commercial .308 in them is not recommended (use milsurp 7.62x51 or steel-cased .308). Ergonomics fairly poor ... need superhuman thumbs to operate the safety and the charging handle can require appreciable force. While probably more accurate than the AK, these are less precision rifles, more bullet hoses. Magazines are cheap thanks to its ability to use near-identical H&K G3 magazines.
Marlin 336 Lever-action in numerous calibers. I'm familiar with the 30-30 variety. Good accuracy. Despite 30-30 being on the low end of centerfire rifle calibers in terms of muzzle energy, the 336 kicks a bit hard due to its light weight (but also handles well at the same time). I want to cry when I see these with scopes since they're brush guns and the round generally isn't effective beyond a few hundred yards.
PSL Semi-automatic 7.62x54R. Essentially a scaled-up AK-47 action chambered for x54R, which has slightly more Wheaties than .308/7.62x51. Appreciably more accurate than the AK knockoffs with similar perceived recoil thanks to the immense muzzle brake (which also makes them far louder to you and others behind it) and the crude recoil spring at the shoulder pad. Barrel length on these will remind you of the rifles that Napoleonic infantry carried. The included 4x scope is ... interesting. Expect tuning it for commercial ammunition to be a challenge.
Henry Pump Action Octagon Pump-action .22LR. These are fun, and - thanks to the regulating motion of operating a pump action - can be fired accurately in rapid succession. A bit heavy due to the barrel. Fun to shoot.
Remington 572 Fieldmaster Pump-action .22LR. Similar to the Henry, only with an internal hammer, lighter, and - in my experience - less robust internals than the newer Henry (this might be because the one I have experience with is more than 45 years old). Fun to shoot.
Ruger 10/22 Semi-automatic .22LR. A classic "plinker" rifle, the 10/22 is relatively cheap, can be decently accurate out of the box, and has a huge accessories aftermarket. Like all .22 autoloaders, it's sensitive to ammunition choice and needs to be well-cleaned/lubricated.
Savage 10FP Bolt-action in numerous calibers. I have experience with the .308 heavy barrel version. Extremely accurate with a good scope. - I regret that I never had the chance to experiment with this at ranges >100 yards.

Shotguns
Maverick Model 88 12-gauge pump-action. "Budget" model of the Mossberg 500. I've shot trap with one of these with a 28" barrel and it handles well. I've also shot buckshot from one with an 18.5" barrel and ... well ... best not to be hit with buckshot from 15 paces.
Remington 870 12-gauge pump-action. Really similar to the Model 88, only the 870 is immensely more friendly to modification.


Somewhat OT...
I'd love to get into black power. I'm presently eyeing replica 1858 Remington and 1860 Army models. Will supposedly teach you not to "race to the bottom of the magazine" since reloading is a time-consuming process.

Hi-point would be something considered budget, you lose a bit on aesthetics, but the mechanism itself is very reliable. They're clunky, brick-like guns

While Hi-points don't have the tendency to blow up in their owners' faces at the rate that numerous other "budget" guns do, I would still avoid them. They're needlessly clunky, use blowback designs on calibers that no other reputable manufacturer does, and the slides are made of a relatively fragile zinc-magnesium alloy that's not terribly durable (if it fails on rearward recoil, the back of the slide might hit you in the face).

If budget is a concern when shopping for pistols, look for a used piece in good shape. Used steel-frame S&W's and Rugers are great values in addition to being extremely durable.

 

[Bullzeyebill]

Good post idleprocess. My Rem 870 ejects from the right side, not the bottom. My Ithica's did eject from the bottom.

Bill

 

[idleprocess]

Any of the well known brand names will likely be good as someone mentioned there maybe models that were "lemons". So the good would be, in no particular order, Glock, Kahr, Smith, Ruger, Springfield, Walther, Berreta, Sig, H&K, Colt, Kimber, Wilson Combat, Night Hawk, Keltec, Taurus*, and more... I included Taurus an Keltec but some of their earlier stuff left something to be desired.

I hear Taurus has the best warranty in the business ... and you are likely to need it. Sad since I fancy a Beretta 92 and the license Taurus flavor is supposedly a better design.

I gather that 1911's from specialty makes (Kimber, Wilson, Night Hawk) may need tuning and/or gunsmithing out of the box. This just seems to be something that's accepted by the buying public and is more likely with mods that deviate from the standard 1911 design.

I think Kel-Tec's reputation has to do with the fact that their niche is pocket guns, which are notoriously unreliable out-of-the-box without tuning. Other makers of pocket guns - Kahr, Rohrbaugh, North American Arms - all have similar reputations (as do the major manufacturers that do pocket guns). Seems to be due to the nature of pocket guns and is made worse by the low price point that Kel-Tec operates at.

 

[idleprocess]

Good post idleprocess. My Rem 870 ejects from the right side, not the bottom. My Ithica's did eject from the bottom.

Bill

I don't own one, but now that I think about it in more detail, you're right. What I was really thinking of was the 870 loading gate that remains in the lower position when the bolt is closed rather than in the upper position like the Mossberg 500 and variants, making reloading slightly more involved.

 

[Mikeg23]

I gather that 1911's from specialty makes (Kimber, Wilson, Night Hawk) may need tuning and/or gunsmithing out of the box. This just seems to be something that's accepted by the buying public and is more likely with mods that deviate from the standard 1911 design.

A Wilson combat, Night hawk, Ed Brown should be golden right out of the box... It's the mass produced guns like Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc that may or may not need tinkering but they will still be reliable out the box... The inexpensive 1911's that's another story.

 

[idleprocess]

A Wilson combat, Night hawk, Ed Brown should be golden right out of the box... It's the mass produced guns like Colt, Kimber, Springfield, etc that may or may not need tinkering but they will still be reliable out the box... The inexpensive 1911's that's another story.

I've heard that Springfields are currently the most reliable out of the box (feeding, firing, cycling). I also gather that until recently, it was perfectly normal for custom 1911s to require out-of-the-box attention from gunsmiths. But my information may well be out of date and my intent is not to debate.

The 1911 design isn't a bad one, but it's from an era of fitting that's not amenable to today's lean mass production (where quality is designed in and QC is done on a sample basis to confirm process itself is within tolerance). The looser the overall tolerances, the more reliable it should be without fitting. A truly tuned 1911 that deviates from the baseline design should be fine so long as you operate it within the narrower parameters it works within ... and so long as the manufacturer actually fit and tested it prior to shipment.

I will confess that I hear people speaking of "trigger jobs" and the like and my eyes start to glass over ... the oft-heard 3" groups at 25 yards just isn't what I'm looking for out of a handgun - so long as I can hit a silhouette at 25 yards, I'm satisfied.

 

[Lee1959]

I have always been a big Glock fan... The different models are all just numbers so yes the difference between a G19 and G21 is just size and caliber.

Any of the well known brand names will likely be good as someone mentioned there maybe models that were "lemons". So the good would be, in no particular order, Glock, Kahr, Smith, Ruger, Springfield, Walther, Berreta, Sig, H&K, Colt, Kimber, Wilson Combat, Night Hawk, Keltec, Taurus*, and more... I included Taurus an Keltec but some of their earlier stuff left something to be desired.

I'd say find something that fits your hand well and go from there.
Stay away from High point, Jennings, brayco, anything that sounds to good to be true.



I would guess your talking about the Kimber Det-1, the civilian version is called the Kimber Warrior. The answer to your original question: in my opinion the only handgun worth spending $1000+ on is the 1911. They are pretty sweet to shoot and very accurate.

No a version of the Colt 1911Railgun is now official issue with the marine special forces.

 

[Mikeg23]

No a version of the Colt 1911Railgun is now official issue with the marine special forces.

I see well I said "I would guess" haha. I did not realize that about the Colt. Still a Kimber warrior is a great 1911!

 

[Lee1959]

I see well I said "I would guess" haha. I did not realize that about the Colt. Still a Kimber warrior is a great 1911!

They are certainly one of the very best indeed. Would not hesitate ot buy one.

 

[Mikeg23]

They are certainly one of the very best indeed. Would not hesitate ot buy one.

I had one but I made the mistake of having a Wilson combat grip safety installed. I soon found out that I don't like the way they feel so I trades it off, but I still have my Caspian with ED Brown grip safety.

 

[CPFBiology]

Copy of idleprocess's very, very, very long post was removed. No need to do that. Just refer to it for your thanks.

Thanks for this. I will have a look through.

 

[Illum]

I hear Taurus has the best warranty in the business ... and you are likely to need it. Sad since I fancy a Beretta 92 and the license Taurus flavor is supposedly a better design.

In the US maybe, but how do their international warranties compare I wonder. I almost... almost bought a PT-1911 in 9mm after I shot 50 rounds through a friends gun. Despite winning high marks, I still think 1911s should be reserved for .45ACP


I have to wonder though, is an autoloader a suitable first gun? I am inclined still on bolt actions... they are by far easier to disassemble, and makes you learn conservatively shot placement. Back when .223 prices was low I had more than one occiasion been recommended a savage bolt gun as a starter. Accuracy out of the box, can do target shooting or varmint [from palm sized to 2o pounders ]