What is the best light's U.I. you can think of?
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Right on the money. This is what distinguishes a well designed UI from what I call an engineered one. Yes, the light can do everything, but the way some modes are reached renders them useless (example: Strobe mode on Fenix LxD).paulr said:
It is what distinguishes toys from illumination tools, and I'm dead serious about my choice of words.
Martini
Enlightened
Obviously, all of us have different opinions on this. For some, added complexity does not hinder operation, as long as it follows some sort of logic. I have a calculator with 2300 built-in functions, and I've actually added things to it as well. That said, I'd prefer a simple Low > High in most cases. There are obviously many different opinions on this issue. Perhaps instead of finding one UI that makes everybody happy, we could settle on two? How about two different circuits, both utilizing a bezel and clicky switch, but to different ends. One simply has a forward clicky and two- or three-mode selector ring. The other has modes-within-modes as I described in my first post. Two flashlights utilizing these circuits could be identical except for the electronics and, of course, function. Two circuits means a slightly more expensive light, but I don't think any one UI is going to make us all happy.paulr said:
Maybe that's why there are different manufacturers out there...
Calina
Enlightened
May be an optional second clicky would help.
Couldn't we have lights with a simple on an off clicky and the choice of an advance UI clicky as an option?
Couldn't we have lights with a simple on an off clicky and the choice of an advance UI clicky as an option?
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elgarak said:
I beg to differ about the strobe on Fenix LxD, it's really easy and fast to use, two taps, just as the Striker VG.
But something that really bothers me is that you can't signal(morse) with the light. That's something you should be able to do with a serious tool.
Sos is completely useless, strobe I could do without (allthough it could be fun to have).
The perfect light UI would have 2 stages, one screaming bright, and one really long running low, and twist bezel too choose the levels directly, no multitap.
Calina
Enlightened
Calina said:I am suprised that nobody comes forward to praise Fenix's UI.
To be honest I think the L1D-CE has a pretty nice UI. It is certainly an improvement over the usual Fenix's UI. It could easily be improved though.
For example, strobe and SOS should be on a completely different menu that could include signaling. Or maybe signaling should be on yet another menu.
The Voice of Reason
Newly Enlightened
The Gladius - the main reason is the one-handed operation, as opposed to the U2-style ring which needs two hands.
The programmable variable output is also nice.
The programmable variable output is also nice.
Calina
Enlightened
Could you please explain the UI to the CPFers not familiar with the light.
Wow, there are people who do not know the Gladius? 
OK, here goes. The Gladius has a selector ring around the tailcap button. Rotating all the way clockwise is the momentary mode -- push and hold, light is on high; release, light is off. One notch counter-clockwise is momentary strobe -- like momentary, but strobing (fast strobe to distract in tactical situations). Another notch counter-clockwise is constant on -- press and release, light goes on and stays on. Another press/release, light goes off. Press and hold lowers or raises the brightness. The behavior on turning on can be changed with 2 long press/holds -- light either comes on on high, low or previous used brightness (in constant on mode). All done with one hand.
There's also a lock-out by pressing half-way and turning the ring counter-clockwise from constant on mode. Light can be locked in either off or on mode.
LxD: Don't have it. Sounds fairly nice, but not very well thought out. Strobe is useless. It appears to require 2 hands to switch from normal to 'turbo'. The switch from 80 lumens in normal and 90 lumens in 'turbo' is too close. I may be wrong, but it is still a reverse clicky, right? No momentary mode?
Pass. The light is a tad too expensive for me with this UI and my previous experiences with Fenix' craftsmanship. The reverse clicky drives me nuts. I'm also very prejudiced against any UI that requires multiple clicks to reach the mode you want, especially when there are modes turned on first you do NOT want. The Fenix LxD is better than most, but, as the saying goes, close, but no cigar.
For a low price [<<$50] I can live with bad UIs. But somewhere around $50 I start to think if the investment is really worth it. The LxD have not reached their worthiness (yet, maybe?).
OK, here goes. The Gladius has a selector ring around the tailcap button. Rotating all the way clockwise is the momentary mode -- push and hold, light is on high; release, light is off. One notch counter-clockwise is momentary strobe -- like momentary, but strobing (fast strobe to distract in tactical situations). Another notch counter-clockwise is constant on -- press and release, light goes on and stays on. Another press/release, light goes off. Press and hold lowers or raises the brightness. The behavior on turning on can be changed with 2 long press/holds -- light either comes on on high, low or previous used brightness (in constant on mode). All done with one hand.
There's also a lock-out by pressing half-way and turning the ring counter-clockwise from constant on mode. Light can be locked in either off or on mode.
LxD: Don't have it. Sounds fairly nice, but not very well thought out. Strobe is useless. It appears to require 2 hands to switch from normal to 'turbo'. The switch from 80 lumens in normal and 90 lumens in 'turbo' is too close. I may be wrong, but it is still a reverse clicky, right? No momentary mode?
Pass. The light is a tad too expensive for me with this UI and my previous experiences with Fenix' craftsmanship. The reverse clicky drives me nuts. I'm also very prejudiced against any UI that requires multiple clicks to reach the mode you want, especially when there are modes turned on first you do NOT want. The Fenix LxD is better than most, but, as the saying goes, close, but no cigar.
For a low price [<<$50] I can live with bad UIs. But somewhere around $50 I start to think if the investment is really worth it. The LxD have not reached their worthiness (yet, maybe?).
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About strobe: I can think of three (well, maybe four, see below) possible useful applications of a strobe.
1) To measure speeds. Older folks here might remember strobe lamps to check the speed of turntable record players. Strobe must be fixed to the speed you wanna check. No current flashlight has this kind of control.
2) Tactical strobe. Must be quite fast. Must be like a momentary, with the light going from dark to strobe on one click/press. Fenix LxD don't to that, IIRC, but come on in constant on first. So they're useless for that.
3) Emergency beacon. Relatively low frequency ~1 Hz or lower, also for extended battery runtime. Can be SOS, but must not be.
The fast strobe on the Fenix is useless for all three applications (granted, the light has the SOS as emergency beacon). It's only useful for application 4, showing off. My gut tells me it was included because people asked for it, not because Fenix had an application in mind (which seems to be the case for all of Fenix design decisions).
1) To measure speeds. Older folks here might remember strobe lamps to check the speed of turntable record players. Strobe must be fixed to the speed you wanna check. No current flashlight has this kind of control.
2) Tactical strobe. Must be quite fast. Must be like a momentary, with the light going from dark to strobe on one click/press. Fenix LxD don't to that, IIRC, but come on in constant on first. So they're useless for that.
3) Emergency beacon. Relatively low frequency ~1 Hz or lower, also for extended battery runtime. Can be SOS, but must not be.
The fast strobe on the Fenix is useless for all three applications (granted, the light has the SOS as emergency beacon). It's only useful for application 4, showing off. My gut tells me it was included because people asked for it, not because Fenix had an application in mind (which seems to be the case for all of Fenix design decisions).
@Elgarak
As I said before, the strobe on the Fenix L1D is hardly cumbersome to reach. Two clicks if youre in turbo mode. The gladius is hardly faster if you're not in the appropriate mode, and how often are you in only strobe mode in the gladius? The chanse that you're in turbo mode on the fenix is actually bigger than that youre in the only strobe mode in the gladius.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As I said before, the strobe on the Fenix L1D is hardly cumbersome to reach. Two clicks if youre in turbo mode. The gladius is hardly faster if you're not in the appropriate mode, and how often are you in only strobe mode in the gladius? The chanse that you're in turbo mode on the fenix is actually bigger than that youre in the only strobe mode in the gladius.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
TORCH_BOY
Flashlight Enthusiast
I like whats on the Fenix L1D/L2D CE lights
VidPro
Flashlight Enthusiast
2 switches.
a complete disconnect switch, preferably on the side, but with a AA , its going to be on the back or a head twist. the complete disconnect would guarentee that there was ZERO draw on the batteries when off. and always turns the light on or off without thought.
the disconnect switch is properly resessed or has a hard click, and will not accidentally turn on.
the disconnect switch is NOT a Gol darn reverse clickee, and works as a momentary from the off posisiton.
a Second small pushbutton switch that dimmed up and down, preferably starting low, and moving up, in about 16 steps or fully changable.
like the n-flex, if its low it goes up when you push it, if its high it goes down when you push it.
Always turns ON the same way you turned it off, when you hit the disconnect switch.
the control switch can be readily accessable, not resessed, and unlike the disconnect switch , doesnt mater if it gets acidentally bumped, because it wont turn on and off the light.
goes high enough to be dangerous (to high for proper heat removal or proper led operation) and has, as low as, 5 min of runtime.
Goes Sooo low that its as dim as 5ma to a 5mm led. and will run for at least 2 days straight.
Never has a Dark time, when using the control switch, that is only accomplished with the disconnect switch.
sure rotating the head CAN be done with One hand, it just sure isnt as easy as poking one switch with a single finger or thumb.
if it must have some goofey modes used to DEMO the light, or used twice in a lifetime, have them work when you hold the control switch for long time, or when you hit both disconnect, and control at once.
if it can have a battery metering, and it uses only ONE type of battery (no false metering) the light could flicker down 12% for 100ms every 4000ms
a complete disconnect switch, preferably on the side, but with a AA , its going to be on the back or a head twist. the complete disconnect would guarentee that there was ZERO draw on the batteries when off. and always turns the light on or off without thought.
the disconnect switch is properly resessed or has a hard click, and will not accidentally turn on.
the disconnect switch is NOT a Gol darn reverse clickee, and works as a momentary from the off posisiton.
a Second small pushbutton switch that dimmed up and down, preferably starting low, and moving up, in about 16 steps or fully changable.
like the n-flex, if its low it goes up when you push it, if its high it goes down when you push it.
Always turns ON the same way you turned it off, when you hit the disconnect switch.
the control switch can be readily accessable, not resessed, and unlike the disconnect switch , doesnt mater if it gets acidentally bumped, because it wont turn on and off the light.
goes high enough to be dangerous (to high for proper heat removal or proper led operation) and has, as low as, 5 min of runtime.
Goes Sooo low that its as dim as 5ma to a 5mm led. and will run for at least 2 days straight.
Never has a Dark time, when using the control switch, that is only accomplished with the disconnect switch.
sure rotating the head CAN be done with One hand, it just sure isnt as easy as poking one switch with a single finger or thumb.
if it must have some goofey modes used to DEMO the light, or used twice in a lifetime, have them work when you hold the control switch for long time, or when you hit both disconnect, and control at once.
if it can have a battery metering, and it uses only ONE type of battery (no false metering) the light could flicker down 12% for 100ms every 4000ms
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enLIGHTenment
Enlightened
Gladius or U2 style: selector ring with forward clickie. Failing that, a single-level on/off forward clickie.
Current generation AA/AAA lights are textbook examples of how not to design a user interface. They are too complex, too time consuming, too awkward, too prone to error, and have too much of a learning curve for the application. Keep it simple or keep it single level.
Current generation AA/AAA lights are textbook examples of how not to design a user interface. They are too complex, too time consuming, too awkward, too prone to error, and have too much of a learning curve for the application. Keep it simple or keep it single level.
If they use the same clicky as on other Fenix lights, yes, then it's too long and not simple enough. Not for me, I only use the strobe to push my students when they're goofing off, but too long for tactical people. Remember, the strobe's disorienting effect lasts only a second or two. Every fraction of a second counts.Lobo said:
The other problem is that there's no momentary on the Fenix (correct me if I'm wrong). Tactical people prefer to go fast from no light to lots of light and back to no light. No light is the standard, it must be a conscious effort to make light, to not give away your position. The Fenix is the wrong way around.
A lot of tactical personnel prefer KISS principle -- anything beyond a simple push/click is not simple enough. Makes sense when bullets fly around you, the adrenaline is floating freely, and your hands are cramping. The Gladius was specifically designed (by people having worked tactically in the past) to keep a certain simplicity with variability. The Fenix was not.
So tactical people would not use a Fenix -- what uses does a civilian have with a fast strobe in a general usage flashlight? None, unless he's a flashaholic and wants to show off.
Brangdon
Newly Enlightened
It's pretty good for a single-button UI. However, I find the strobe and SOS modes are so hard to use they almost might as not be there - and I notice you don't mention them either.xiaowenzu said:
Although I like the continuous dimming or brightening a lot, I also like having a few important preset levels. Especially an 80% full level which gives plenty of brightness but with substantially better battery life than 100% full.
My ideal light would have a strobe with continuously varying speed, rather than just 3 speeds (or just 1). Different speeds is useful if you are using it to tag and locate equipment or people in the dark - you want each item to have a different frequency or colour. Continuously varying speed is useful for "freezing" motion stroboscopically. This would be cool even without knowing exactly what the speed was. It'd also be fun to get several lights and set them to slightly different frequencies, so they gradually shift in and out of phase. This whole area is under-exploited currently.
It's hard to do multi-modal stuff without a ring selector to indicate which mode. How about a 2-button light? The main button is based on the Photon Freedom:
- Click for on full. Then press and hold to dim continuously.
- Press and hold for dimest, then ramp up to brightest. Flicker at 80%.
- (For tactical strobe mode, see below.)
- Press and hold for strobe. It starts slow (< 1hz) and ramps up in frequency (to several 1000Hz?). Release and hold again to ramp in the opposite direction, so you can "hunt" up or down for the frequency you want. The ramping should get a bit more sensitive each time you do this.
- Click for SOS.
- Double-click to put the main switch in "tactical" strobe mode. Single click, or press and hold, to take it out again.
- Press both buttoms simultaneously for lock-out. Press both again to re-enable.
- If the light is already on when the second switch is pressed, the strobe uses the current brightness. Otherwise it uses 80%. Tactical strobe always goes to 100% brightness.
Brangdon
Newly Enlightened
Although a neat idea, in an emergency this may be too hard. You might have injured an arm or hand and be working one-handed, or it might be so cold your hands can't grip well, or you might be wearing thick gloves and not want to take them off. Dismantling a torch and reassembling it is surely too difficult for these conditions. Especially if it's dark.Gunner12 said:
Calina
Enlightened
Calina said:
elgarak said:Wow, there are people who do not know the Gladius?
I was not referring specifically to the Gladius. It was a more general comment.
big beam
Enlightened
VB-16 it's simple and easy to use!
nuwai even better High Med Low all on 1 button.(strobe if you ever need it)
KISS
nuwai even better High Med Low all on 1 button.(strobe if you ever need it)
KISS
