when will hdtv be in regler people price range

3rd_shift

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I gotta wonder if there isn't an HDTV tuner abailable for the pc.
Most pc monitors made over the last several years can manage HDTV sharpness of 1024X768 at minimum.
That's 1.3 megapixel in motion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

An HDTV tuner PCcard for less than $100 just might do the trick.
Especially for college dorms, or other places where a smaller sized HDTV is desired.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Raggie33? Where did you go? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/au.gif
 

BB

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Update on HDTV Receiver...

Ordered a Humax HFA100 HDTV receiver (~$200), a Terk TV55 In/Outdoor Amplified Antenna ($61), and a $19 6-foot HDMI cable (neither the receiver nor the TV came with this cable).

The Humax receiver had a couple of good recommendations, the others had major issues (slow processor or loud fans or were very expensive). And it was cheap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The Terk TV55 seemed like a reasonable compromise between rabbit ears and a full size exterior antenna. It is about 4-feet by 3-4 inches oval (feels like a piece of PVC pipe). Our bedrooms are on the second floor so if I could get an amplified antenna working behind a dresser--I would be all set.

The HDMI cables are all over the price range. I just choose a cheap one as these are all digital signals and everything either will work or not. Extra bucks are not going to improve the sound or picture.

I received everything today from Buy.com.

I first connected the HDTV Receiver to the LCD HDTV and used the old pair of rabbit ears to see how sensitive the Humax was to signal quality.

The Humax came on and displayed the setup menu on the TV just like it was supposed to. Went through the basic questions and let it run for ~5 minutes to find the local stations.

Found a three or four DTV stations on automatic and everything seemed to work fine. Although, I had to change the rabbit ear orientation for the different stations.

Then, I went to the HDTV Pub web site and entered my zip code to find all of the active DTV stations in my area (SF Bay Area). You have to do this because you local stations are identified by their analog channels and station ID (i.e., 4-KRON)—However, when you need to manually locate stations, you will need their new Digital Station channel number (KRON is DVT channel 57).

Went to the Humax setup/manual station menu and selected the local stations one by one. The Humax would spend ~10 seconds on each station to identify it and store. If it did not find a signal, you could rotate the antenna until the signal strength was sufficient for it to learn.

When all was said and done--I had about 15 digital stations ID'ed. (about 1/2 of the stations around here are foreign language/home shopping/religious).

I found that the rabbit ears did not give me a stable signal for many of the stations (lots of drop outs and "searching for signal" messages—I expected this because my analog stations were not very clear either with this setup). I then connected the Terk TV55 w/ amplifier power adapter (came with ~4-feet of RF cable) to the Humax.

Found that I could get stable signals for all of the stations I was interested in with the bigger antenna (and with the gain turned on, the HDTV Receiver did register a 10 point gain--from 80 to 90 points for one station I experimented with). However, the antenna is directional and I need to point it in one of about 3 different directions, depending on which station I was watching at the time.

Overall, the combination worked fine. I may make an indoor antenna stand so that I can use it as my poor-man's antenna rotor for now.

The down sides seem to include; needing to point the antenna at the station (Humax has single key on the remote for signal strength). And poor flesh tones on some shows/stations that I kind of have to live with because the HDMI interface disables the hue and color control on my TV (only a simple three position color temp. setting warm, standard, and cold). Lastly, DTV/HDTV does not improve the acting or writing for any of these TV shows.

I am not a big A/V guy (been using rabbit ears for years on my own TV's and living with static), but the Humax receiver seems to work as designed. There are several one-button controls on the remote that support often needed function without me needing to navigate the menu systems.

I have not figured out yet, with the little watching I have done so far tonight, whether or not the poor flesh tones are related the Humax receiver or just what is being broadcast by a particular station.

Overall, the digital signals are much better than what is available on analog TV or even my in-laws Comcast Cable connected standard TV.

The Humax easily does what I want it to do at a very reasonable price and I am very happy (so far) with my purchases.

-Bill

PS: After looking around a bit more--the poor flesh tones seem to be related to specific station/shows. In general, the flesh tones seem fine.

-BB
 

picard

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HD TV price won't be affordable to the public for a few more years. The technology is too new. It is evolving right now. Samsung and Sony are working on higher resolution panels right now. I only buy LCD TV which has digital capability.
 

Chris_Medico

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If you are waiting for digital panels to reach the resolution of CRT it will be a while. You can get 720p or so with them but not much more. Certainly nothing in the main stream that is full HD. When they do have a main stream panel that will do the full HD resolution it will cost megga $$. I know prototypes exist but again nothing beyond that.

If you want a digital input you can get that now with a CRT set. But if you want to use it for gaming then don't get CRT. You will burn it up.

HD via a CRT set is affordable today if you have the room and if you are going to use it as a TV and not a computer monitor.
 

PhotonWrangler

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That was an excellent review, Bill. Thanks for sharing your experience with the antenna and the amp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 

yuandrew

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Depend on the display you want. CRT based HDTVs are getting cheaper and some are already in a good price range. I know Sanyo has a 27" CRT HDTV with an intergrated tuner that they sell exclusively through Wal-Mart Supercenters (I've seen it at my regular Wal-Mart in Chino though) Last time I checked, it was about 448$ if I could remember.

http://www.sanyo.com/entertainment/televisions/digital/index.cfm?productID=1115

Of course, if you want a bigger screen than a 27" or want a projection, LCD, or Plasma display; the price starts to go up.

Then there's also the way you want to receive it. Most intergrated TVs or set top boxes would normally use an antenna but if you want Satelite or Cable, you would need to have a box from your provider ie DirectTv or Dishnetwork or in the case of cable in my area, I have Adelphia.

I think most would start with an Antenna setup. I've used an antenna for my TV for years and the reception where I am is not very good being that I'm located between 2 hills and about 25 miles from Mt Wilson where most of the transmitter antennas are so I might need a better antenna than rabbit ears
 

BB

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Time for an update on the Humax HFA 100 DTV Receiver...

At this time, I would have to recommend people against getting this unit.:awman:

The picture and reception is still just fine... However, the firmware more or less is unreliable.

Basically, there are problems with memory corruption and range check problems... It behaves as if the firmware is unable to manage the day to day reception problems (i.e. data missing and corruption) that occur with over the air digital TV...

Over time, the Channel Guide gets corrupted and sometimes nothing is registered. Now it is forgetting the Digital Channels it learned and how to channel surf up and down them.

Also, it has problems if the Monitor is turned off or another source is selected. If there is no HDMI clock (or data stream?) from the monitor, the software and hardware get badly confused and may require you unplugging the unit to get its brains back again.

To this point, I have received one email from the vendor explaining the obvious... and nothing more. And the unit's functions probably need a hard reset to clear all memory from scratch to get all of the basic functions running again.

It still kind of works OK (kind of in a Windows 3.1 hand holding way), but it is nothing that you would be happy about.

For $200 it is kind of OK, but it is not yet ready for prime time.

The unit is about out of the 100% 3 month free warranty coverage... And I am not holding my breath for anything really satisfactory.

-Bill
 

PhotonWrangler

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How dissapointing that is. I remember Widows 3.11 all too well and anything that operates like that is definitely not ready for prime time (pun intended). Sounds like they've made soome shortcuts in the area of error trapping and recovery, and/or their RF input equalization scheme might not be up to the current state of the art.

8VSB is inherently cranky in a multipath environment, and some manufacturers (notably Zenith among others) have been working on sophisticated input processing methods to enable the receiver to distinguish the real bits from their reflections. I believe they're on their third generation of this approach. I hope the standalone receiver manufacturers are following their lead and doing similar things.
 

BB

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Yea, their error handling is probably the pits... It does fine when receiving the digital signals but I think it has problems with stations that are not in the same direction that the antenna is currently pointing--thereby confusing/corrupting the entire OS memory subsections when they try to process background TV Guide and active channel updates...

It looks like the old 80/20 rule in hardware/software development. You can get 80% of the functions with 20% of the work--and management wants to stop there. Not wanting to recognize that 80% of the development work and time is still required to get a rock solid volume shipping product.

I had people working for me that I had to give back to other managers that I could not convince that I was willing to pay for 100% of their work--they thought that they were just wasting time and money. They were, for the most part, junior programmers (as opposed to true software engineers).

Oh well...

-Bill
 

yuandrew

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Saw a RCA 27" set (can't remember the model) at my Wal-Mart last week next to the Sanyo set I posted earlier. It said HDTV in the upper left hand corner above the screen.

It's a HDTV monitor with a DVI input but a standard tuner as it says on the feature's list next to the price tag as well as 4.3 aspect ratio TruFlat screen and some other features.

However, what really shocked me was the price of this set $297! :huh2: :wow: :takeit:
 
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PhotonWrangler

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yuandrew said:
Saw a RCA 27" set (can't remember the model) at my Wal-Mart last week next to the Sanyo set I posted earlier. It said HDTV in the upper left hand corner above the screen.

It's a HDTV monitor with a DVI input but a standard tuner as it says on the feature's list next to the price tag as well as 4.3 aspect ratio TruFlat screen and some other features.

However, what really shocked me was the price of this set $297! :huh2: :wow: :takeit:

Wow! That's an amazing price. Since many HD viewers have cable or satellite these days, and the cable/satellite boxes often have DVI or HDMI outputs, one doesmn't need to buy a $300 outboard HD tuner to complete the package. If a 16:9 widescreen isn't important to you, this appears to be a great deal and a good entry point into HD resolution.
 

TorchMan

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The prices are dropping all the time. About a year ago, I bought mine. Now, the model is discontinued, and can be found for about 700 dollars less. The replacement model is about $200 less, most places. Prices for the same thing can vary by a great amount, depending on the seller.

Waiting has the additional advantage of there being more programing available. It's getting better all the time, but there isn't as much HD programing as people think. It has to be broadcast and formatted in HD, just turning on any chanel will not make it be in HD, even with an HD set. ESPN prime is in HD, simulcast. Not everything they show is in HD though! And HBO, here on my cable, has two HD feeds, East and West. Not every show is in HD! Inside The NFL is not! Some movies are not. Rome, thankfully, is!:) VOOM offered the most HD I'd seen, went under right as I was going to switch to them. I can watch HD extreme sports all day! Discovery Chanel HD is awesome. TNT HD is okay, not quite as good of quality, usually. And I've had it on both Dish and TWC. So it could just be the carrier, but I've had two and it seems the same on both.

None of my Texan games, save the Sunday Night ESPN game have been in HD this year, even on the local HD chanel. This is through cable. Some were last year when I was trying to use an over the air antenna. That didn't work out, I ditched it and Dish for TWC. I'm not sorry, overall.

When watching the Astros in HD on Fox the other nights, I noticed some camera angles, well, at least one, was not HD. Most were and it was sweet. Same thing with updates on other football games, even if the one I'm watching is in HD, the updates might not be. Maybe that's a DirectTV NFL Sunday Package exclusive, all games in HD?

The colors are better too in HD! It's not just a sharper picture. The colors have blown me away.

Also, most of the technologies are new and reliablity is estimated, not actually known. CRT is tried and true, but a big screen of those is large and heavy. I didn't see many that wowed me with the picture either. So waiting helps data come in that regard, too.

When buying one, I would advise researching them through Consumer Reports, Epinions and other places as well as on your own. Try and learn the lingo and types, and believe me when that Circuit City commercial talks about all the types, they are understating. No matter what the numbers say, trust your eyes! That's what you are going to watch with, after all. I bought a 720 resolution set (it still views 1080) that looked better than most 1080s. Check for different type connectivity and all, e.g. HDMI, RCA, 15 pin RGB, etc, etc... And where they are located on the set makes a difference to me, also. I have several on the side, so I don't have to go around back to hook up an RGB or an RCA for a computer or video game system.

Also, try and see how the set does with fast action scenes, dark scenes, bright scenes etc. On most Star Wars DVDs, there is a test for THX that test video and audio. The video is done by making circles and patterns, I found it handy if the demo had a DVD hooked up. Some tvs will not make perfect circles, they will show jagged edges. Real world use is less proununced, but you can see it in letters like capital "A" and such too. And my Attack of the Clones will test 7.1 Surround Sound by throwind a tone or hiss to each channel seperately.

If you plan to use it for static images (mine is my monitor), check about image burn in. And be aware that unless you stretch your Standard Def. image, the black lines on the sides (or top) can burn an image in to many types. Some have grey bars on the side, which are supposed to be better, and my Dish let me color the bars as needed, but I usually get rid of them by stretching the image. Also, some movies, even though I've a 16:9 ratio screen, still have the black bars top and bottom, and need stretching as well, even in HD.

Sorry about the book here. Hope it might help you. If you plan to buy, research is my recomendation, and actual viewing too.
 
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