When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish all colors with?

[Yoda4561]

The fun thing is when you're reworking fire alarm or network wiring in a building, you've got some 20+ wires all in a tight bundle and you need to trace the pinkish red one in a twisted mess of reddish pink wires. My old L4 just wouldn't cut it for that, a coworker's far dimmer minimag worked much better, though you couldn't see as far or as wide, the colors were easy to pick apart.

 

[BabyDoc]

Re: When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish arall colors with?

Interesting subject. Most people prefer the cool light of the LED's today but the reason for the cool white tint is the same reason pinks and reds do not show up well with these lights.

Looking at a spectal distibution with a XRE type LED the Blue wavelength of light (425-475nm) is very prominent, then the greens and yellows (500-600nm) are around half as prominent. Around 625nm (Pink) these wavelengths of light are starting to fall off and by 700nm(Red) this light is almost non exsistant, hence pinks and reds do not show up well.

With a typical Incandescent just the opposite is true. Reds are prominent and Blue's are almost non-exsistant.

Sunlight is prominent at both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. Actually beyond both ends of the visible spectrum.

The TK20 has the best color rendention I've seen in a LED light so far but the tint is very yellow even comparing it to my Inova T4-MP

It has been a while since I seen it but I think it was Kiessling (bernie) who puplished a spectral analysis of the sun, led, and incandescent light which educated me when I first started buying LED lights. I'm sure someone can find it.

Bill

How good is the TK20 at distigunishing pinks from reds? For me, that is the acid test for color rendition with LED lights, particularly in my medical practice where minimal inflammation (pink) may be totally invisible and where moderate to extreme inflammation (red) may be minimized by most LED's poor color rendition in the red/pink region. Only the Nichia 083 HIGH CRI LED in the McGizmo Sundrop has worked for me. I would love some alternatives to the Sundrop, especially a flashlight that would allow some adjustment of the light level, which the SunDrop does not allow.

 

[Blindasabat]

Won't the additive effect of having more spectra equate to higher effective CRI? An LED with high CRI has more of the spectrum of light represented, so wouldn't adding two (or more) LEDs with different spectra equal one LED with more emitted wavelengths?

From reading the lengthly thread "High CRI and it's significance," I believe this is true. Adding several LED's with different 'white' tints will eventually cover more and more of the spectrum getting closer and closer to sunlight and therefore higher CRI.

No,unfortunately the CRI would be still be equal to the LED's used.

-Michael

 

[Scott Packard]

I know you're discussing the warm colors, but check out the difference in the purple wire in sunlight vs. Luxeon III (upper-left vs. upper-right). May be some artifacts introduced by the camera also but it looks blue. I'm viewing it on an old-school Sony Trinitron CRT, set to 5000K white balance. The beige wire to the right of the purple wire looks baby blue.

 

[superflytnt]

The fun thing is when you're reworking fire alarm or network wiring in a building, you've got some 20+ wires all in a tight bundle and you need to trace the pinkish red one in a twisted mess of reddish pink wires. My old L4 just wouldn't cut it for that, a coworker's far dimmer minimag worked much better, though you couldn't see as far or as wide, the colors were easy to pick apart.

Why are you using 100+ lumens for up close wiring jobs? Get yourself an adjustable output light for that kind of work. I do a fair amount of work with computers/networks and I use either a Streamlight Microstream or a Nitecore D10 (Q5 WC?) and I find it pretty simple to tell colors apart. If one light or the other has a tint to it I just take that into account and have never had a problem telling red from pink, for example.

Of course if you try to pump 100 lumens onto a close up bundle of wires then, yeah, I can see where you'd have some problems with that.............

 

[Yoda4561]

Close up?? No, we're talking 20-200 feet away here. Big buildings need big light Or rather it makes things a WHOLE lot easier. Sitting on top of a 12 foot ladder peeking through a ceiling tile trying to find out where the wires you're looking for are, the brighter the light the less you need to move around. Which is a good thing when you have to do this in an office where people are working below you. Not sure about networking myself, maybe not a big deal if your prints are accurate. Building fire alarm prints seem to be anything but, we played musical ceiling tiles all the time.

 

[Hitthespot]

Re: When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish arall colors with?

How good is the TK20 at distigunishing pinks from reds? For me, that is the acid test for color rendition with LED lights, particularly in my medical practice where minimal inflammation (pink) may be totally invisible and where moderate to extreme inflammation (red) may be minimized by most LED's poor color rendition in the red/pink region. Only the Nichia 083 HIGH CRI LED in the McGizmo Sundrop has worked for me. I would love some alternatives to the Sundrop, especially a flashlight that would allow some adjustment of the light level, which the SunDrop does not allow.

You definitely have a unique usage for your lights Doc. I can understand how the different shades of pink and reds can make a difference in your diagnoses of a patient and can also show the severity of the problem. I am trying to take some decent photographs for you showing the difference of the shades in Sunlight and then in the TK20 light for comparison. My camera does not seem to allow me to set it to a White Balance of Sunlight for both pictures but I'm still expermenting. If I can get it right I will post both pictures for you if I can find some good pinks and reds in the house.

Bill

 

[spgrk]

Re: When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish arall colors with?

How good is the TK20 at distigunishing pinks from reds? For me, that is the acid test for color rendition with LED lights, particularly in my medical practice where minimal inflammation (pink) may be totally invisible and where moderate to extreme inflammation (red) may be minimized by most LED's poor color rendition in the red/pink region. Only the Nichia 083 HIGH CRI LED in the McGizmo Sundrop has worked for me. I would love some alternatives to the Sundrop, especially a flashlight that would allow some adjustment of the light level, which the SunDrop does not allow.

What sort of light source do medical instruments like otoscopes, laryngoscopes etc. use these days?

 

[Hitthespot]

I'm confused. These pictures did not show the results I was expecting. I shot all three on auto exposure and all three with the White Balance set to Sunlight.

Outside the TK20 shows the grass, trees, bushes, and flowers much more accurately than the E2DL. However, based on these pictures the E2DL shows the Pinks and the Reds more accurately than the TK20. These pictures do show what I see with my eye.

My take is the TK20 has much more yellow and green wavelengths of light but no more Reds and Pinks than any other modern LED. In fact I think the TK20 is worse then E2DL on these colors.

I am open to other interpretations and mistakes I may be making in my methods / analysis.

Bill

 

[discoverEDC]

Re: When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish arall colors with?

BabyDoc,
I've seen your posts in the McGizmo forum. I have a Novatac 120P that I put a high CRI Seoul into. I like the results but you have to be willing to loose the lumens (down to 70-80) and the available emitter has a very incanish or yellow beam (it also still has throw). Don't know if this would work for your application but you know how good the Novatac is for different levels (I've seen in other posts that you have one). I've described a bit more on the second page of this link:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202363

Regards,

Walt/discoverEDC

How good is the TK20 at distigunishing pinks from reds? For me, that is the acid test for color rendition with LED lights, particularly in my medical practice where minimal inflammation (pink) may be totally invisible and where moderate to extreme inflammation (red) may be minimized by most LED's poor color rendition in the red/pink region. Only the Nichia 083 HIGH CRI LED in the McGizmo Sundrop has worked for me. I would love some alternatives to the Sundrop, especially a flashlight that would allow some adjustment of the light level, which the SunDrop does not allow.

 

[Hooked on Fenix]

Does this answer the original question?
http://www.flashlightnews.org/story162

The reason why l.e.d.s have no red spectrum in the beam is because they are all based on blue l.e.d.s lighting up a phosphor coating to make them white. When these new semiconductor nanocrystal phosphor l.e.d.s come to market, hopefully we'll have full spectrum l.e.d.s..

 

[jirik_cz]

My take is the TK20 has much more yellow and green wavelengths of light but no more Reds and Pinks than any other modern LED. In fact I think the TK20 is worse then E2DL on these colors.

Neutral and warm white leds have more red in the spectrum. Here are some all in one pictures. With sunlight and incandescent spectrum in background.
http://blog.ledplus.ch/led-galerie/led-weisslicht-spektren

 

[passive101]

Does this answer the original question?
http://www.flashlightnews.org/story162

The reason why l.e.d.s have no red spectrum in the beam is because they are all based on blue l.e.d.s lighting up a phosphor coating to make them white. When these new semiconductor nanocrystal phosphor l.e.d.s come to market, hopefully we'll have full spectrum l.e.d.s..

When will these come out?

I will admit to the other problem I have with color rendition. When I make my steaks and fish on my george foreman grill I check to see the color of it. I like it rare or medium rare on a well cooked side. But it's hard to see the colors quickly and easily with my LED lights. I tried my Inova T1, T2, and Fenix P2D.

I know that's a sad use for it :candle:

 

[Hitthespot]

Neutral and warm white leds have more red in the spectrum. Here are some all in one pictures. With sunlight and incandescent spectrum in background.
http://blog.ledplus.ch/led-galerie/led-weisslicht-spektren

Thanks. Nice Graphs. Appreciate the link. I wish it was in english.

Bill

 

[Flashlight Aficionado]

Thanks. Nice Graphs. Appreciate the link. I wish it was in english.

Here you go.

 

[Hitthespot]

Thank you Sir!

Bill

 

[BabyDoc]

Re: When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish arall colors with?

What sort of light source do medical instruments like otoscopes, laryngoscopes etc. use these days?

Usually they are incadescent, but some are halogen. They work OK, but aren't nearly as good as my SunDrop fitted with an acrylic hemisphere. That light puts out beautiful bright even illumination that I find even more neutral than my otoscope incadescent.

 

[BabyDoc]

Re: When will LEDs be out that you can distinguish arall colors with?

BabyDoc,
I've seen your posts in the McGizmo forum. I have a Novatac 120P that I put a high CRI Seoul into. I like the results but you have to be willing to loose the lumens (down to 70-80) and the available emitter has a very incanish or yellow beam (it also still has throw). Don't know if this would work for your application but you know how good the Novatac is for different levels (I've seen in other posts that you have one). I've described a bit more on the second page of this link:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202363

Regards,

Walt/discoverEDC

Thanks for the tip and the link, Walt. Have you had a chance to compare the Seoul to the Nichia? It sounds like the Seoul is a lot brighter. Yes, I do have the p120, which isn't getting much use right now. I wouldn't mind modifying it. My particular p120 is kind of disappointing with its cold tint. Did you do the work yourself or did you get someone to do the work for you? I am not sure I could do this mod myself.

 

[chorlton]

See this thread

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205357

:thumbsup:

 

[precisionworks]

If I understand this correctly all new LED's will have the better LEDs in them.

Newer emitters produce more light with less battery drain, but even the newest & best LEDs are anything but color correct. For general lighting purposes, correct color temp is not at the top of the list. Add the fact that the High CRI emitters produce fewer lumens per amp, and they become a subspecialty product.

I wouldn't trade my McGizmo SunDrop for any other light, as nothing else I've seen can do what the SunDrop does. When you're testing a 480 volt motor drive, and the test leads have to go on the correct terminals, the SunDrop provides great peace of mind.