Which is better of surefire single cells

[ANW]

Thanks for all the info and help

 

[The Porcupine]

porky, nice pics... OT what's that ti looking knife sitting next to peak ti cup and spork?

Cy,
Sorry it took me so long to respond! It's a custom Jens Ansø "Nasty Necker". I sold this one, but it's a great knife for sure!
Jens' webpage: www.ansoknives.com
Forgot to add, that it's not Ti, but RWL-34 steel.

 

[blgentry]

totally disagree!

surefire makes some of the best EDC lights made. my favorite is surefire M6 with M6R. rides in my backpack all the time.

I don't think that's exactly most peoples' idea of EDC, but that's a minor point.

KL4 head combined with E1E body (R123) and two stage LOTC = TW4 is one of the smallest EDC lights available and will blow away any HDS light. including U85.

I just can't let this go. You either haven't tested this, or I the lights I have access to are broken. 3 days ago I did this test, head to head:

I combined an E1E body with the stock head, and then a KL4 head taken from an L4. I compared both to my HDS U60. The U60 obviously was far brighter (and whiter) than the stock E1E. It was also noticably brighter than the E1E + KL4 head. I then compared the L4 to the U60 and found that they seemed about the same in terms of total output, but it's difficult to compare since the L4 beam is so much more of a flood than the U60. It's possible that the L4 was brighter in total output. The hotspot of the U60 was much brighter. Again, hard comparison.

I used batteries that had been used some, had been used until nearly empty, and some that were fresh out of the package. The comparisons didn't change: The U60 was always brighter than the E1E with any head.

BTW, it's worth noting that the U60 works with batteries that are so low that the E1E won't light at all.

This post probably comes of as confrontational. Your statements are completely contrary to my experience as outlined above. I'm open to logical discussion about this of course.

Brian.

 

[benchmade_boy]

so how much brighter is a kl4 on a 2 cell body than a kl4 on a single cell body? if i build a light i would use a kl4 and an e2d tailcap but i cant decide between a single cell body or a two cell body

 

[cy]

hey Al carries his M6 around all the time too...

and yes I've got a few KL4's. the TW4 combo has been around for sometime. add a two stage switch, runtime on low is several hours. making TW4 a solid EDC.

it's not unusual to find KL4's with 100+ lumens. if you have an Xbin KL4, then more output yet

you must either have an unusally dim KL4 or are not doing a fair comparison. note final output depends upon luxeon lottery. note not all KL4 will run in regulation in 1x CR123. whereas all KL4 will run in regulation with R123 li-ion.

white ceiling beam tests seems to be favored for output comparisons. not everyone has access to an integrated sphere.

I don't think that's exactly most peoples' idea of EDC, but that's a minor point.

I just can't let this go. You either haven't tested this, or I the lights I have access to are broken. 3 days ago I did this test, head to head:

I combined an E1E body with the stock head, and then a KL4 head taken from an L4. I compared both to my HDS U60. The U60 obviously was far brighter (and whiter) than the stock E1E. It was also noticably brighter than the E1E + KL4 head. I then compared the L4 to the U60 and found that they seemed about the same in terms of total output, but it's difficult to compare since the L4 beam is so much more of a flood than the U60. It's possible that the L4 was brighter in total output. The hotspot of the U60 was much brighter. Again, hard comparison.

I used batteries that had been used some, had been used until nearly empty, and some that were fresh out of the package. The comparisons didn't change: The U60 was always brighter than the E1E with any head.

BTW, it's worth noting that the U60 works with batteries that are so low that the E1E won't light at all.

This post probably comes of as confrontational. Your statements are completely contrary to my experience as outlined above. I'm open to logical discussion about this of course.

Brian.

 

[blgentry]

hey Al carries his M6 around all the time too...

That's one bad *** light man. Just too big for pocket carry is all.

it's not unusual to find KL4's with 100+ lumens. if you have an Xbin KL4, then more output yet

You don't mean on an L4 body though right? Something doesn't add up here. I researched the crap out of the L1, L2, and L4 earlier this year and Surefire's site listed the L4 as being either 65 or 70 lumens. Now it says 100 lumens. They still claim 2.5 hours of run time on the L4, but only 1 hour for the L2 on high, which they also list at 100 lumens.

Beyond that, I've done head to head comparisons of the L4 (a friend's) and my L2, and the L2 is clearly brighter. Not "lots" brighter, but you can see the differences when shining them on the same surface. Further, during this same comparison, the L2 seemed brighter than an E2E (65 lumens), and the L4 seemed to be right on the money brightness wise with the E2E.

you must either have an unusally dim KL4 or are not doing a fair comparison. note final output depends upon luxeon lottery.

I suppose this is possible, but I'm skeptical. Have you ever seen large differences between two Surefire samples of the same light? As a premium product, I wouldn't expect easy to see brightness variations. Plus see above about comparisons with E2E.

note not all KL4 will run in regulation in 1x CR123. whereas all KL4 will run in regulation with R123 li-ion.

I'm not sure what regulation has to do with this. Regulation, in flashlight terms, means constant brightness output right? If so, it doesn't play into my comparisons, as no light was on for more than about 1 to 1.5 minutes at a time; usually far less. For the record, all tests were done with disposable 123A lithiums.

white ceiling beam tests seems to be favored for output comparisons. not everyone has access to an integrated sphere.

I certainly don't!

We used a table in front of us and a white wall and door at about 15 feet away for the comparisons. Again, the hot spot of the U60 was much brighter than the KL4 head, particularly on an E1E body. Overall output of the KL4 on the L4 body (two batteries) could have been brighter than the U60; it was fairly close; again the hot spot throws off my ability to discern total light output.

Finally, note that flashlightreviews shows total light output of the L2 at "72", the L4 at "58", and the U60 at "44". If we pretend that a "72" is 100 lumens, that makes the L4 right at 80 lumens, and the U60 about 61 lumens. Chart:

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/chart_manu.htm

This seems fairly consistent with my experiences. What are you basing your statements upon? I.E., have you done "eyeball" tests like mine, or with measuring equipment, or something else?

Thanks,

Brian.

 

[cy]

Brian, my statements are based upon experiece handling five watt luxeons and of course loads of feedback on cpf.

actual output of luxeon veries within same bin code. that's where the term luxeon lottery comes from...

do a ceiling bounce test in a dark room. note how bright room becomes. far from being perfect, but on side by side comparison. it's fairly easy to tell which light is putting out more.

L4 is designed to run with 2x CR123 and will deliver full brightness. some KL4 heads will run in regulation or full brightness with 1x CR123. depending upon vf of luxeon. all KL4 will run in regulation with 1x R123.

so if you are doing tests with 1x CR123 with KL4, odds are it's not putting out max output.

the best 3watt (Ubin) will put out less lumens, than best available five watt of Wbin. look up the luxeon bin code chart at the shoppe...

do some digging and you will find all sorts of info...