why do so many people hate the united states.
- Thread starter raggie33
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raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
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i dont mean i hate em i hate the fact they hate the usa.
I imagine that much of this has to do with the fact that the Bush-policy is aimed at gaining sympathy from the US-residents itself and not at gaining sympathy from the rest of the world.
To you, the US is still the same country, to other countries, things changed when your foreign policy changed.
To you, the US is still the same country, to other countries, things changed when your foreign policy changed.
RevDavid
Enlightened
Our foreign policy underwent its primary change after 911, and that is an appropriate reason for change. I think it is long overdue for our nation to be proactive in defending our own interests against our enemies. Every nation has the right to defend itself against its enemies. If nations like France don't like it, I see that as irrelevent. The US should not have to take a survey of nations to determine our policy.
David <><
David <><
RevDavid, the original question was "Why do people dislike the US" and for that, the US policy is responsible. You may consider the opinion of other countries irrelevant, but that is exactly the reason the US has lost much of it's sympathy. There are many sound reasons possible for that policy, but it does not change the perception other countries have. If you want sympathy, you need to take a survey of other countries, If you don't need sympathy, you just do as you please (I mean the US with "you", not you personally off course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
rhinobalsa
Newly Enlightened
I feel our forign policy has a lot to do with U.S. business interests and less to do with the good of humanity. United Fruit Growers in South America to Bectel and Haliburtan in Irac.
Rhino
Rhino
[ QUOTE ]
raggie33 said:
i dont mean i hate em i hate the fact they hate the usa.
[/ QUOTE ]
Get over it. If its going to bother you that there are people out there that hate the US, then you're going to be bothered for the rest of your life.
I agree that US foreign policy is the #1 reason people hate the US. Think about it.
And because you will ask, no, I do not hate the US, not by a long shot. I have no reason to.
raggie33 said:
i dont mean i hate em i hate the fact they hate the usa.
[/ QUOTE ]
Get over it. If its going to bother you that there are people out there that hate the US, then you're going to be bothered for the rest of your life.
I agree that US foreign policy is the #1 reason people hate the US. Think about it.
And because you will ask, no, I do not hate the US, not by a long shot. I have no reason to.
zorba
Enlightened
Id say that there are individuals and some militant and/or fanatic groups of people that hate the US and want to cause great pain to the citizens of the US. On the other hand, the American government goes to great lenghts to help the interests of the industries and corporations that helped it (the government) to come to power.
See how GW Bush was financed by the oil producing companies to become president.
So, after he was elected, he started this famous war on terror by invading Astan to find Osama Bin laden, who two years after is still at large but the Afgani people go to bed with the fear of some Delta force guy invading their house in the middle of the night. The attack wasnt unprovoked, but there were other ways for finding justice for the Twin Towers victims.
If he wanted Osama, he could found him with much less military force. Dont tell me about the opressed people of Afganistan and how they are liberated, beacause if a nation wants liberation its people should be the only ones to decide for it and not the only superpower left in the world.
What about Saddam? The US started a war against him, the bombings killed God knows how many thousands, the living conditions of the Iraqi people are worse than before (and they were pretty bad before), and the USA-British led alliance has lost more soldiers after the end of the war than during the actual war... Does the word Vietnam spring to mind?
BUT... Afganistan is going to be one of the hosting countries for the natural gas pipeline for Russia. This natural gas will power the American electrisity producing powerplants and it will be cheap bacause the US controls Afganistan.
ALSO, almost all the oil produced in Iraq, which is something like the 18-20% of the worlds reserve, will be pumped by American companies. So, the American people will have cheap energy to power their thirsty and not at all fuel efficient SUVs and the government will be able to control the price of it worldwide.
And I didnt say anything about nation sovereignity...
So, what the rest of the World sees, is that the USA government causes a lot of pain to get what corporate America wants, even if that means invading other countries and creating so called Patriot Bill (funny name isnt it). To the narrow minded people of this World, these actions can only create hate. This hate will cause more terrorist attacks rest assured.
I dont hate any of you. In fact, everyone in this forum and in many others where American people participate, have helped me a lot in many things. I am very thankful that by joining this forum I have expanded my horizons and made some friends.
If there are people that hate the US, my belief is that they hate the US government
PS. I think I should erase my post cause maybe the NSA or the CIA will start tracknig me for the Nation s safety of course... But I believe in freedom of speech, so screw them.
See how GW Bush was financed by the oil producing companies to become president.
So, after he was elected, he started this famous war on terror by invading Astan to find Osama Bin laden, who two years after is still at large but the Afgani people go to bed with the fear of some Delta force guy invading their house in the middle of the night. The attack wasnt unprovoked, but there were other ways for finding justice for the Twin Towers victims.
If he wanted Osama, he could found him with much less military force. Dont tell me about the opressed people of Afganistan and how they are liberated, beacause if a nation wants liberation its people should be the only ones to decide for it and not the only superpower left in the world.
What about Saddam? The US started a war against him, the bombings killed God knows how many thousands, the living conditions of the Iraqi people are worse than before (and they were pretty bad before), and the USA-British led alliance has lost more soldiers after the end of the war than during the actual war... Does the word Vietnam spring to mind?
BUT... Afganistan is going to be one of the hosting countries for the natural gas pipeline for Russia. This natural gas will power the American electrisity producing powerplants and it will be cheap bacause the US controls Afganistan.
ALSO, almost all the oil produced in Iraq, which is something like the 18-20% of the worlds reserve, will be pumped by American companies. So, the American people will have cheap energy to power their thirsty and not at all fuel efficient SUVs and the government will be able to control the price of it worldwide.
And I didnt say anything about nation sovereignity...
So, what the rest of the World sees, is that the USA government causes a lot of pain to get what corporate America wants, even if that means invading other countries and creating so called Patriot Bill (funny name isnt it). To the narrow minded people of this World, these actions can only create hate. This hate will cause more terrorist attacks rest assured.
I dont hate any of you. In fact, everyone in this forum and in many others where American people participate, have helped me a lot in many things. I am very thankful that by joining this forum I have expanded my horizons and made some friends.
If there are people that hate the US, my belief is that they hate the US government
PS. I think I should erase my post cause maybe the NSA or the CIA will start tracknig me for the Nation s safety of course... But I believe in freedom of speech, so screw them.
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
Sometimes the reason people hate you has nothing to do with you whatsoever. Sometimes you're just convenient.
There are lots of different groups that have a problem with the US at the moment. Some might say that Schroeder and Chirac hate us at the moment, but I think you're referring to our current problems with certain Islamic nations?
First of all you should realize that, as a group, they don't hate us nearly as badly as you may have been lead to believe by reading the new york times and listening to NPR. HERE is yet another in a long series of articles about an American solder coming home from Iraq only to have people ask him repeatedly about how awful it must have been for him to be hated and spit at in the streets only to have him tell them, yet again, that was not at all what it was like.
Historically, Islamic nations ran some of the most wonderful and tolerant places to live in the world. The Ottoman empire, and Spain prior to the inquisition were amazingly enlightened places where Jews, Arabs and Christians (and anybody else) were welcome and lived together quite happily. That last of any of that greatness ended over 600 years ago. The standard of living today in Islamic nations without oil is worse than that in the Ottoman Empire a thousand years ago! And yet, the Q'uran tells them that their nations should be powerful and important. The experiment in Islamist government is not doing well. And yet look at us. We are powerful, well fed and successful and yet we are not governed by any religion at all. The only explanation for this success is that we have made a deal with the devil. In order to keep the people from revolting against their own government in these places they have instead placed the blame for their failure onto the US and onto Israel and onto anyone else convenient. Instead of opening their systems up and embracing a role in the world they have cut themselves off further and further and vilified the rest of the world. This worked for a while and created such hatred as currently fuels al-queda and the rest.
There is an excellent article exploring this potential explanation here: Why We Were Attacked
It is interesting to note that without access to the US to blow things up they are increasingly turning to blowing up their own contrymen. There are plenty of conspiracy theories making this the US's fault somehow as well. But to me it just proves that they don't really care who they blow up. It also destroys the rhetoric that these nations have been pouring over their own people for so long.
It's going to take some time, but with a secular democratic government installed in Iraq and with the people there becoming successful and educated and happy, the rest of that part of the world will see that. And they will want this too and they will also realize that their current governments cannot deliver anything but poverty and platitudes and hatred.
And then things will change.
There are lots of different groups that have a problem with the US at the moment. Some might say that Schroeder and Chirac hate us at the moment, but I think you're referring to our current problems with certain Islamic nations?
First of all you should realize that, as a group, they don't hate us nearly as badly as you may have been lead to believe by reading the new york times and listening to NPR. HERE is yet another in a long series of articles about an American solder coming home from Iraq only to have people ask him repeatedly about how awful it must have been for him to be hated and spit at in the streets only to have him tell them, yet again, that was not at all what it was like.
Historically, Islamic nations ran some of the most wonderful and tolerant places to live in the world. The Ottoman empire, and Spain prior to the inquisition were amazingly enlightened places where Jews, Arabs and Christians (and anybody else) were welcome and lived together quite happily. That last of any of that greatness ended over 600 years ago. The standard of living today in Islamic nations without oil is worse than that in the Ottoman Empire a thousand years ago! And yet, the Q'uran tells them that their nations should be powerful and important. The experiment in Islamist government is not doing well. And yet look at us. We are powerful, well fed and successful and yet we are not governed by any religion at all. The only explanation for this success is that we have made a deal with the devil. In order to keep the people from revolting against their own government in these places they have instead placed the blame for their failure onto the US and onto Israel and onto anyone else convenient. Instead of opening their systems up and embracing a role in the world they have cut themselves off further and further and vilified the rest of the world. This worked for a while and created such hatred as currently fuels al-queda and the rest.
There is an excellent article exploring this potential explanation here: Why We Were Attacked
It is interesting to note that without access to the US to blow things up they are increasingly turning to blowing up their own contrymen. There are plenty of conspiracy theories making this the US's fault somehow as well. But to me it just proves that they don't really care who they blow up. It also destroys the rhetoric that these nations have been pouring over their own people for so long.
It's going to take some time, but with a secular democratic government installed in Iraq and with the people there becoming successful and educated and happy, the rest of that part of the world will see that. And they will want this too and they will also realize that their current governments cannot deliver anything but poverty and platitudes and hatred.
And then things will change.
raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
- Messages
- 13,564
i will no longer coment on this thread .dont want to get baned
zorba
Enlightened
[ QUOTE ]
lux0 said:
"We are powerful, well fed and successful and yet we are not governed by any religion at all."
I seem to recall that Bush was consulted by God himself on the Iraq war.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are right about that and every night he prays as well, much like muslim people pray every afternoon facing Mekka
lux0 said:
"We are powerful, well fed and successful and yet we are not governed by any religion at all."
I seem to recall that Bush was consulted by God himself on the Iraq war.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are right about that and every night he prays as well, much like muslim people pray every afternoon facing Mekka
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
lux0, if Bush wants to wear his heart on his sleeve when it comes to his personal beliefs that's his right.
As much as his personal beliefs may be taken into account when he's making policy, he has the ability and the responsibility to do things regardless of this. There aren't any Islamic nations where the leaders have this ability. With the possible exception of Turkey, (thanks for Ikendu for pointing this one out to me, but I'm still trying to sort out exactly who is in control of what in their parlimentary style government) There are Islamic clerics that have veto power over everything that the governments do. This is real religious power and not just a faith held by individuals. This is true even in the kingdoms like Saudi Arabia where the king himself can be contradicted by the clerics.
I think you'll agree that this is somewhat different than our President going to Sunday service and admitting that he asks for guidence from God.
Although, if you can prove that he thinks God is actually talking back to him, that would certainly be a good start in removing him from office /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
As much as his personal beliefs may be taken into account when he's making policy, he has the ability and the responsibility to do things regardless of this. There aren't any Islamic nations where the leaders have this ability. With the possible exception of Turkey, (thanks for Ikendu for pointing this one out to me, but I'm still trying to sort out exactly who is in control of what in their parlimentary style government) There are Islamic clerics that have veto power over everything that the governments do. This is real religious power and not just a faith held by individuals. This is true even in the kingdoms like Saudi Arabia where the king himself can be contradicted by the clerics.
I think you'll agree that this is somewhat different than our President going to Sunday service and admitting that he asks for guidence from God.
Although, if you can prove that he thinks God is actually talking back to him, that would certainly be a good start in removing him from office /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
zorba
Enlightened
I think what lux0 tried to point was that Bush started the war by making people think that God was on their side, much like the crusades 500 years ago
[ QUOTE ]
James S said:
The experiment in Islamist government is not doing well. And yet look at us. We are powerful, well fed and successful and yet we are not governed by any religion at all. The only explanation for this success is that we have made a deal with the devil. In order to keep the people from revolting against their own government in these places they have instead placed the blame for their failure onto the US and onto Israel and onto anyone else convenient. Instead of opening their systems up and embracing a role in the world they have cut themselves off further and further and vilified the rest of the world. This worked for a while and created such hatred as currently fuels al-queda and the rest.
Could not have put this better.
Yes large corporations from large economies will often see to their needs above those whose lives they affect. Because a large amount of these bodies are American in origin it will seem to the various foreign populaces they effect that a form of Americanisation is occurring couple this with the US policy in now dealing with potential threats and those with a grudge will construe an anti US agenda.
I know it won't sit well with those of a religious persuasion but trouble always seems to come from those nations or groups of people who are fanatically religious and therefore intolerant. I know the States is a fairly religious land but it is tolerant and doesn't readily mix politics with religion and is successful for it. Then there are the competitors for example like France who quite frankly seem to have adopted an anti-US/Western as a matter of course.
There is no way when your successful to please everyone.
James S said:
The experiment in Islamist government is not doing well. And yet look at us. We are powerful, well fed and successful and yet we are not governed by any religion at all. The only explanation for this success is that we have made a deal with the devil. In order to keep the people from revolting against their own government in these places they have instead placed the blame for their failure onto the US and onto Israel and onto anyone else convenient. Instead of opening their systems up and embracing a role in the world they have cut themselves off further and further and vilified the rest of the world. This worked for a while and created such hatred as currently fuels al-queda and the rest.
Could not have put this better.
Yes large corporations from large economies will often see to their needs above those whose lives they affect. Because a large amount of these bodies are American in origin it will seem to the various foreign populaces they effect that a form of Americanisation is occurring couple this with the US policy in now dealing with potential threats and those with a grudge will construe an anti US agenda.
I know it won't sit well with those of a religious persuasion but trouble always seems to come from those nations or groups of people who are fanatically religious and therefore intolerant. I know the States is a fairly religious land but it is tolerant and doesn't readily mix politics with religion and is successful for it. Then there are the competitors for example like France who quite frankly seem to have adopted an anti-US/Western as a matter of course.
There is no way when your successful to please everyone.
"...Bush started the war by making people think that God was on their side, much like the crusades 500 years ago"
Let's not get confused. While some Muslims in Iraq may feel that the action in Iraq is a holy war, comparing the actions of the U.S. to the Crusades is a bit of a stretch.
Rememeber, there are non-Chrisitan members of the U.S. military.
Let's not get confused. While some Muslims in Iraq may feel that the action in Iraq is a holy war, comparing the actions of the U.S. to the Crusades is a bit of a stretch.
Rememeber, there are non-Chrisitan members of the U.S. military.
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
But the crusades were started by Pope Urban the something or other, who was the most powerful religious leader in the western world at the time. The reason given for going to war was that they wanted to capture Jerusalem back from the Turks. This couldn't have been blanketed by any spin doctor anywhere as having anything to do with anything other than religion.
If Bush feels that by making a statement about God being on his side in this to help to rally a segment of the US population then thats OK by me. He did not say that God has asked him to do this, or that he was doing this for the glory of God or that his priest had suggested that he did this.
I fail to see how it applies.
I don't think that anybody thinks the crusades made the world a better place for anybody.
If Bush feels that by making a statement about God being on his side in this to help to rally a segment of the US population then thats OK by me. He did not say that God has asked him to do this, or that he was doing this for the glory of God or that his priest had suggested that he did this.
I fail to see how it applies.
I don't think that anybody thinks the crusades made the world a better place for anybody.
I think our Grecian friend Zorba hit the nail on the head of why we are hated in European circles in the last few years and also why many U.S. citizens have so much hatred for how the government is currently being run. It may surprise you to hear that this all has a very simple solution to, but a solution that I don't see happening anytime soon.
The only solution to this hatred to our current government is to put a stop to the circle of back scratching that is going on in our government today. This circle, as others have already touched upon is where special interest groups and megalithic, monopolistic corporations are the ones that are truly in control of our government.
They first buy our politicians by agreeing to contribute unbelievably large sums of money to their campaigns which pretty much assures the candidate the win, because as we all know, the average uninformed voter in this country tends to vote for the person that they have seen on TV and in the news the most, because the average person is too disinterested and lazy to find out what each candidate is really all about, so they vote for who they see as being the most popular and the person that they have heard of the most, versus the person that they have never even heard of, but that may be the better candidate. You've probably all heard the phrase that goes something like 'even bad publicity is good publicity', well this is why, because the most well known candidate will almost always win an election, with few exceptions.
Then once this politician is in office, that's where the cycle of back scratching comes in and they start passing laws left and right to help the groups that initially put them in power because they are going to turn to those same groups when it comes time to finance the reelection campaign. If they don't do all in their power to help the powers that got them elected in the first place then they know that those same powers will be financing their opposition in the next election.
This is the main way that such things as oil wars and such get started in the first place. Most of those companies that are pumping the oil in Iraq are flying American flags and making gargantuan campaign contributions in order to keep our military guarding their oil rights.
You can believe this or you can just write me off as another one of "those" kind of people (whatever the common word is that is used to label people that think this way now days). I would encourage each and every one of you that thinks that this is nothing but a lot of bunk to study this cycle out and you will see the pattern over and over again.
This is why there was a great campaign going just a few years ago to get campaign finance reform, because the average person was beginning to wise up and catch on to what was going on and was beginning to demand that this cycle of corruption be removed from our political system. Well, you all see how long that movement lasted and you also see that we are back to business as usual as far as campaign financing is concerned to.
My very best advice that I could give to any true patriot of this country is to do all that you are able to do to see to it that the call for campaign finance reform is made into a major issue once again and demand that this corruption be removed from our government so that our politicians can begin to act for the greatest benefit of the average American citizen instead of the special interest groups and monopolistic corporations that put them in office to begin with.
Want to know why oil is still such a big issue in this country and why we have not gone over to an alternative fuel source as of yet, well this is it. This is also why we are still meddling in the affairs of the Middle East as well. If the U.S. had not meddled in the affairs of these people in the first place then they would killing each other, just like they have for thousands of years, instead of attacking us. The government, hand-in-hand with the oil companies, have painted this big fat target on the U.S., now we are left to deal with the consequences...
The only solution to this hatred to our current government is to put a stop to the circle of back scratching that is going on in our government today. This circle, as others have already touched upon is where special interest groups and megalithic, monopolistic corporations are the ones that are truly in control of our government.
They first buy our politicians by agreeing to contribute unbelievably large sums of money to their campaigns which pretty much assures the candidate the win, because as we all know, the average uninformed voter in this country tends to vote for the person that they have seen on TV and in the news the most, because the average person is too disinterested and lazy to find out what each candidate is really all about, so they vote for who they see as being the most popular and the person that they have heard of the most, versus the person that they have never even heard of, but that may be the better candidate. You've probably all heard the phrase that goes something like 'even bad publicity is good publicity', well this is why, because the most well known candidate will almost always win an election, with few exceptions.
Then once this politician is in office, that's where the cycle of back scratching comes in and they start passing laws left and right to help the groups that initially put them in power because they are going to turn to those same groups when it comes time to finance the reelection campaign. If they don't do all in their power to help the powers that got them elected in the first place then they know that those same powers will be financing their opposition in the next election.
This is the main way that such things as oil wars and such get started in the first place. Most of those companies that are pumping the oil in Iraq are flying American flags and making gargantuan campaign contributions in order to keep our military guarding their oil rights.
You can believe this or you can just write me off as another one of "those" kind of people (whatever the common word is that is used to label people that think this way now days). I would encourage each and every one of you that thinks that this is nothing but a lot of bunk to study this cycle out and you will see the pattern over and over again.
This is why there was a great campaign going just a few years ago to get campaign finance reform, because the average person was beginning to wise up and catch on to what was going on and was beginning to demand that this cycle of corruption be removed from our political system. Well, you all see how long that movement lasted and you also see that we are back to business as usual as far as campaign financing is concerned to.
My very best advice that I could give to any true patriot of this country is to do all that you are able to do to see to it that the call for campaign finance reform is made into a major issue once again and demand that this corruption be removed from our government so that our politicians can begin to act for the greatest benefit of the average American citizen instead of the special interest groups and monopolistic corporations that put them in office to begin with.
Want to know why oil is still such a big issue in this country and why we have not gone over to an alternative fuel source as of yet, well this is it. This is also why we are still meddling in the affairs of the Middle East as well. If the U.S. had not meddled in the affairs of these people in the first place then they would killing each other, just like they have for thousands of years, instead of attacking us. The government, hand-in-hand with the oil companies, have painted this big fat target on the U.S., now we are left to deal with the consequences...
