Why is it acceptable to have a loud clicky in a 'tactical' light?

[red02]

I think this is an appeal to equivocation. "tactical" does not mean stealthy, while stealth is often used in association with a "tactical" environment one does not imply the other.

Besides its hard enough to hear a TV through a wall, how are you going to hear a click thats just as loud as keyboard?

 

[Juggernaut]

Wolfeyes flashlights have very silent click. For all it's worth:shrug:?

 

[kengps]

Hey Chevy SS.....maybe you should consider a scenario where the bad guy is completely blind (not legally blind, as that will open another can-o-worms) ...That should get the thread headed the direction you are looking for.

 

[Yavox]

I think that in real life the situation when a bad guy would be able to take advantage of your light clicking too loudly is so extremely rare, that it is just not worth implementing a stealthy clicky switch.

It is IMHO like fixing some construction mistakes in automobile production business. Some faulty part results in estimated X people killed which turns into Y compensation paid to their families, which is 0,01% of the cost required to get all faulty parts fixed - from the business point of view, fixing is not profitable so the design is left as it is.

 

[Darwinsdead]

I think that in real life the situation when a bad guy would be able to take advantage of your light clicking too loudly is so extremely rare, that it is just not worth implementing a stealthy clicky switch.

It is IMHO like fixing some construction mistakes in automobile production business. Some faulty part results in estimated X people killed which turns into Y compensation paid to their families, which is 0,01% of the cost required to get all faulty parts fixed - from the business point of view, fixing is not profitable so the design is left as it is.

Reminds me of Fight Club! :thumbsup:

Umm...maybe it's not Fight Club I'm thinking of... : /

 

[HorseFilms]

The entire SWAT team kicking in the door and yelling "search warrant" would tip me off far more than the subtle click of a flashlight ever would. That's just me, though.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

What if the bad guy is hiding in a closet, or other small area where the light does not penetrate? But let's assume the bad guy can still hear the clicky. This is a very bad situation.

Seriously, is this a joke? My guess is a law enforcement officer won't even think of turning on a light whether it makes an audible click or not unless he's certain it'll give him a tactical advantage. Plus, I'm pretty sure that simply moving about while loaded down with gear would make at least as much noise, probably more, than the subtle click of a switch. These guys are prepared for combat and loaded down with the requisite gear, they're not silent ninjas.

 

[LukeA]

Because 'tactical' is a meaningless marketing buzzword?

 

[jp2515]

The entire SWAT team kicking in the door and yelling "search warrant" would tip me off far more than the subtle click of a flashlight ever would. That's just me, though.

Then you should account for the concussion devices and the clanging of items on the officers belts/vest etc and those things would make far more noise than a little click.

Because 'tactical' is a meaningless marketing buzzword?

That word has been tossed around like "one size fits all" way too much.

 

[HorseFilms]

Then you should account for the concussion devices and the clanging of items on the officers belts/vest etc and those things would make far more noise than a little click.

That's what I'm saying, sir.

 

[victory]

If you haven't consulted with some real operators while designing your flashlight, you probably have no business calling it "tactical". Unfortunately, for the torch buyer, flashlight advertising isn't regulated like cuts of beef and you can call any chuck roast prime rib and attach a premium price to it.

There's a lot of issues I have with the maelstrom being marketed as a next wave illumination tool for all sorts of serious dudes who kill people for a living because the UI simply isn't consistent with its intended purpose.

As to the main concern you had, While it is not my first choice, I see no problem with clicky switches on a tactical flashlight so long as the constant on requires a substantial press to activate. As several people have said, 350 lumens is going to give you away much faster than a "click". A negligent discharge of your flashlight is as serious as a negligent discharge of your weapon. Likewise, it should be used sparingly and always with purpose. As such, the constant on setting is rarely used. flash and move, flash and move. If your clicking your light on then off, you're probably using it too much.

The tape switch probably gets used more than the clicky in tactical use.

I'm not saying you're wrong as our experiences differ, but in my experience i almost never see guys using tape switches. Wires are fail points and just another thing to get tangled on/accidentally rip off. For the most part, guys just position their lights so they can activate the tail cap switch with the thumb of their support hand.

 

[AnAppleSnail]

There are a few ways that "Tactical" is abused. With some manufacturers, if it's black metal then it's tactical. Those are easily mocked and aren't relevant to this conversation.

A 'Tactical' tailcap to me sounds like one that is useful in tactical situations. My only 'tactical' situations are creeping around in the dark for fun, where the noises I make are already louder than a *click* from ten feet away. If you're sneaking around - really trying not to be seen - then you use the Mk 1 eyeball for seeing in the dark. If you want to see, you'll consider your position known anyway, UNLESS you're using extremely dim light very carefully - such a light should have a silent activation. I use my Quark's moonlight mode on momentary. Presto, a silent "Stealthy" mode for a tactical light.

My experiences with night tag indicate that the use of light is always nonstealthy. Using bright lights constantly is absolute nonstealth. And most people - those who don't walk around on smooth clean concrete floors in socks and no equipment - won't find the click to be a problem because they shouldn't use it when it'll cause trouble.

Surefire makes silent clickies, but you still shouldn't use them when you're creeping around.

 

[Monocrom]

Take the tailcap off. Replace with a momentary tailcap switch. Problem solved.

 

[Unclemonkey]

most tactical situations are nowhere near quiet.

 

[hotlight]

the scenario the OP created isn't the best example... but I agree the click is loud.(IMO). Im used to the liteflux, Zebralight, and HDS type clickies now.

momentary push does solve the issue, unless you push too far.... now you have two clicks to deal with.
-or- keeping switch on and twisting tail cap on/off.

Darwinsdead: fightclub was my first thought. not a exact quote but close.

 

[knightrider]

It's not that it is or isn't acceptable, but more that it isn't the best or proper choice. Best choice and easiest example of a tactical light is the standard Surefire C2 with it's standard momentary switch. Holding down the button, when dropped light goes out. The standard Surefire twisty switch is bullet proof and something you could depend on no matter what.

I don't believe that clicky switches offer the same dependability. When your life is on the line, do you really want anything that isn't dead reliable? The reliability of the switching method is the most important to me, knowing I can turn it off and on and not worry if it will do either function. The noise of "click" also isn't the issue since it would be followed by a much louder sound. :laughing:

Now getting into UI systems is a completely different can of worms... but I would again refer to the standard C2.

All my opinion. But I do use my lights in minor tactical situations - and know what I look for and what expert advice I've gotten in the past from professionals. I have a Surefire M3 ready to go and a C2 also ready to go. Both are great for tactical situations and were designed for such activities.

Other types of lights can work, but I'm into the old tried and true for tactical situations.

 

[victory]

Other types of lights can work, but I'm into the old tried and true for tactical situations.

Yup, I would say 95% of the guys i work with go with some direct descendant of the good old 6P from a major manufacturer like SF, Streamlight or Blackhawk/Night-ops. The other 5% have a Gladius, which is still pretty much the only multi-function UI suitable for tactical use. Everything else i can count on one hand.

 

[Zatoichi]

Am I the only one who's Surefire 6P momentary on makes a clicking noise unless you press it very gently? Mine makes a quite audible, tinny sounding click.

About the word 'tactical', I don't think the word is actually misused very often regarding flashlights. It's people's interpretation of the word that makes it seem so. I'm sure they know this when they compose the marketing bumph and sometimes aim to be misleading, but never the less, any flashlight can be used tactically. 'Tactical' doesn't necessarily mean it's the best flashlight to use in stealthy armed raids etc.

 

[the.Mtn.Man]

There's a lot of issues I have with the maelstrom being marketed as a next wave illumination tool for all sorts of serious dudes who kill people for a living because the UI simply isn't consistent with its intended purpose.

Actually, 4sevens designed the light based on extensive field testing and feedback from actual law enforcement officers who used the Maelstrom in a wide variety of real-world situations. Accordingly, the Maelstrom features a "set it and forget" design, which is what guys like that want, and in fact most of them use the light on the first setting with the bezel tightened and just treat it like a single-mode light. 4sevens only added the extra modes like SOS and moonlight to appeal to collectors and enthusiasts.

You can read more about their design philosophy in this thread, third post down.

 

[unclevit]

I have a bunch of 'tactical' lights. Just got my new Maelstrom G5 in the mail today (probably my 10th 4Sevens purchase). I don't really like the G5, but that's another story.

Anyway, the clicky on the Maelstrom makes a lot of noise. Most of my other clickies seem about the same noise-wise. They simply make too much noise. If I was a LEO or military and I was searching a quiet, deserted building for a bad guy, well, a loud clicky would give away my position wouldn't it?

EDIT - Let's assume for this question, that the bad guy is around the corner and would NOT have seen the illumination of the light. In other words, the bad guy does not see any light, but he hears the click.

For stealth work the Surefire twisty sure seems best. But then again, I am no LEO, nor am I military. So someone please tell me what I'm missing.

Why is it acceptable to have a loud clicky in a 'tactical' light?

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I was in the tactical approaches so many times, and clicking noise caused no problem at all. But if the suspects got spooked, mostly it was our footsteps, or rubbing sound of the vest accessories. Experience sharing