Why is titanium not standard?

[sigsour]

I just don't get the reason for only using titanium for limited edition runs. I lost out on the Quark series which is what I really wanted but I guess they are gone forever. If they make a profit on titanium, why not use it? :shrug:

 

[Fichtenelch]

Because alloy is a much better conductor for heat. And i wouldn't want a titanium light for a job, in which it is going to be hard used every day...It looks awesome, so it's good for shelf queens imho By the way, i don't have a titanium light yet...

 

[Kgp]

Because alloy is a much better conductor for heat. And i wouldn't want a titanium light for a job, in which it is going to be hard used every day...It looks awesome, so it's good for shelf queens imho By the way, i don't have a titanium light yet...

I agree Aluminum is much better for an everyday user^^^

 

[John_Galt]

It's expensive...
Some alloys are apparently harder to machine than Aluminum...
It's expensive...
The average consumer isn't going to shell out $50 for a decent light, so they definitely aren't going to shell out for a $100+ Ti light...
It's too expensive for manufacturers to produce two of the same light, but one in Ti and the other in Al.
titanium doens't dissipate heat as easily as Aluminum.

 

[Count]

I lost out on the Quark series which is what I really wanted but I guess they are gone forever.

You can still get most of the titanium parts and build your own Quark Ti here, but it'll cost more, won't be numbered and won't come with all of the accessories.

 

[jblackwood]

Because alloy is a much better conductor for heat. And i wouldn't want a titanium light for a job, in which it is going to be hard used every day...It looks awesome, so it's good for shelf queens imho By the way, i don't have a titanium light yet...

If you did have one, you'd realize that your Ti can take a beating, scratches, scuffs, etc., and you can then take a scotch brite pad to it and with some elbow grease, leave it as good as new. To shelf queen Ti is against the point, in my opinion. Some people have already scratched up their Ti Quarks so they already have the finish that all McGizmo's have when shipped (except Bead blasted, that is). But from what I've heard, it's easy to polish your lights up as well. Try that with chrome plated and you get horrible results. Anodizing comes off as well. Why Elzetta didn't just make a Ti light instead of Chrome plating, I'll never know, but that's a topic for another thread.

Ti is so hard that special tools are used to shape it. This makes not only the raw material expensive, but also the cost of working with it goes up. I'm not going to malign the fact that Ti doesn't transfer heat well because frankly, it's not big enough to make a difference in most lights. The Ti does just fine in that regard and I have two Ti lights that do things no other lights do (two beam profiles). Would I love those lights as much if they were made out of aluminum? Sure. But I'd lament the day I have to send it off to get re-anodized since I EDC one of these lights. Since they're both made out of Ti, I have NO suck worries and use them as hard as I want with the satisfaction that, barring electronics, the finish at least is something I can restore if necessary. How's that for a shelf queen?

The Al lights I have can get dinged up and I don't really care much. I think that part is mostly sour grapes, though, since if I could fix them up, I would. As it is, I take a permanent marker to it. But I know exactly where I've done it on each light. I love Ti, and not for shelf queens. I'd pay for all of my lights to be Ti just to be able to keep them forever, but frankly, there are some that I might be getting rid of on the marketplace soon, anyway . . . maybe not!

 

[Bronco]

Yep, it pretty much all boils down to cost. Ti is significantly more expensive to purchase as a raw material than aluminum, is available in fewer standard bar stock sizes, increases in cost almost exponentially as bar stock size increases, is more time consuming to machine, shortens the operating life of the machinist's cutting implements and is more difficult and time consuming to polish.

 

[passive101]

I've run Swiss Screw Machines and had to work and spec parts off the CNC's. Ti is going to cost you a lot more then aluminum generally even though Aluminum is sharp as hell on your hands :sick2:

Titanium can be as bad, but is generally much harder on the tools. More down time. More tool adjustments, More inserts get broken making the operator frustrated.

Generally Ti is also done for special things and companies want higher quality finishes on them as well which makes you have to run the machines slower, checked more often, and more bad and junked parts.

 

[Gatsby]

Don has some well crafted and interesting posts on why he uses titanium in the McGizmo lights - but of course he is also in a custom and high end light niche where the (relative) cost is likely not to do much to diminish demand.

 

[T0RN4D0]

Some things are actually in higher demand if you put a bigger price tag on them. Ti flashlight isnt a poor mans gadged, so for the high end products bigger price is better. To some extent. :] Also people not being able to afford them, makes it a sweeter thing to have, to stand out.

 

[kramer5150]

For one thing, its a thermal insulator (as far as metals go). So running LEDs at high currents and long ON-cycles could (in theory, with high emitter currents) overheat the LEDs.

Not an issue with limited "enthusuast" production runs, but for the general population, who turns the light on and leaves it ON crawling under a car, or behind a water heater.... could lead to widespread problems across a population.

IMHO of course.

 

[sol-leks]

I have a titanium illuminati and it is great but it has its flaws too. Titanium of course is more expensive and doesn't transfer heat as well(although I don't think its much of an issue in a keychain light) and probably the biggest flaw for me is that titanium often has very tough threads, which can be annoying for a twisty light. One hand operation would be very tricky.

 

[FrogmanM]

For one thing, its a thermal insulator (as far as metals go). So running LEDs at high currents and long ON-cycles could (in theory, with high emitter currents) overheat the LEDs.

Not an issue with limited "enthusuast" production runs, but for the general population, who turns the light on and leaves it ON crawling under a car, or behind a water heater.... could lead to widespread problems across a population.

IMHO of course.

Good point of view Kramer!

I usually baby my Al torches compared to my Ti ones.

-Mayo

 

[kramer5150]

Good point of view Kramer!

I usually baby my Al torches compared to my Ti ones.

-Mayo

Link here
http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm

Brass is also a relatively poor thermal conductor. It puzzles me why Brass and Titanium are always held in such high regards as flashlight metals.

 

[bsly]

I really like the appearance of Titanium and how litte it weighs, but it scratches to easy for my taste. I've never tried using scotchbrite though, thats a great tip that i will have to try. Stainless Steel tends to scratch too easy also.

My favorite metal is Tungsten Carbide. Its looks great and is virtually scratch resistance. Diamonds and Sapphires are about the only thing hard enough to scratch it. The trade off is that it is very difficult to tool and noticably heavy. I think it is actually heavier than platinum in equal portions. Not sure how well it deals with heat either. Still, I would love to find a nice small EDC light manufactured from Tungsten Carbide, even if it is too heavy. I havent come across one yet.

 

[Blindasabat]

Different people have different priorities. Ti is generally heavier than AL, which some people like ... "heft" to their lights. Some like a lighter feel and less weight in their pockets. And less cost. Only recently have Ti lights been offered at "only" twice the price of an otherwise equivalent aluminum version.

HA coated AL versus Ti as a surface are like a concrete road versus an asphalt road. The concrete (HA AL) is tougher and will resist small scraping damage, but when it breaks it cracks visibly and is ugly (like a scratch in HA). Ti is more like asphalt in that it gives a little, then scratches less visibly which can be repaired with a shovel of patch asphalt (repolish/buffing) to get it close to the original condition.

 

[adnj]

Titanium:

• more difficult to machine than Al
• heavier than Al
• more expensive than Al
• less heat conduction than Al
• doesn't require anodization like Al

And btw, both Ti and Al are almost always used as alloys. Pure Ti is very expensive and pure Al is soft.

 

[McGizmo]

.... Pure Ti is very expensive and pure Al is soft.

CP titanium (commercially pure) is typically less expensive than the Ti alloys like 6-4.

I can think of no justification for titanium as a standard and I doubt there would be enough interest or manufacturers willing to attempt to make titanium lights if it somehow were justified.

IMHO, thermal considerations as they relate to the host material have become a non issue in most cases these days. Most cases. There are any number of viable plastic hosts now offered in the mainstream and I am not aware of this presenting itself as any problem.

 

[Fichtenelch]

If you did have one, you'd realize that your Ti can take a beating, scratches, scuffs, etc., and you can then take a scotch brite pad to it and with some elbow grease, leave it as good as new. To shelf queen Ti is against the point, in my opinion. Some people have already scratched up their Ti Quarks so they already have the finish that all McGizmo's have when shipped (except Bead blasted, that is). But from what I've heard, it's easy to polish your lights up as well. Try that with chrome plated and you get horrible results. Anodizing comes off as well. Why Elzetta didn't just make a Ti light instead of Chrome plating, I'll never know, but that's a topic for another thread.

I meant with that, that i don't wanna work with a 200$ Ti-Light, which is basically supposed to be dropped..So my worklight is full of nicks, dings, scratches, but it's still working and if i need to get a new one, i know that i'll be at 35$ and thats all...So it's just that i don't wanna spend that much money just for a light to be a thermal insulator.
Thats why a Ti-Light would be a Shelf-Queen for me. Its the question how much beating a Ti-Light would take without taking marks, nicks and dings. Scratches are no big deal, thats for sure. I might have a look for a Ti-Light...

 

[Patriot]

It's expensive...

Precisely! Nothing more needs to be said when taking into account how the free market place operates. Base models are always considered the "standard" whether we're talking about flashlights are automobiles. Ti models are considered special in the case of retail production lights.