XRE testing at with liquid nitrogen...

gav6280

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Would anyone be interested in me doing a destruction test on XRE Led;s attached to massive, liquid nitrogen cooled heat sinks?

I am wondering what the absolute maximum current is for the LED if it's kept super chilled, and what light output it can give?

Has any experimenting been done yet with super cooling ranging between -20 to -120c?
 
Would anyone be interested in me doing a destruction test on XRE Led;s attached to massive, liquid nitrogen cooled heat sinks?

I am wondering what the absolute maximum current is for the LED if it's kept super chilled, and what light output it can give?

Has any experimenting been done yet with super cooling ranging between -20 to -120c?
I have the highest output LED setup ever tested. 502 lumens from a single die 1mmx1mm. jtr was kind enough to do the testing for me. Check here.
 
It would be an interesting test - and slightly tricky to get there - but possible.

The main challenge lies in keeping the LED package together. I don't think any silicones are rated below - 60 C and most likely would crack from thermal shock if they are already LN2 temps and turned on. The phos could have the same problem.

It seems like the choices would be to use an LED with a ceramic phos approach (Like the Lumileds TFFC), a package from LedEngin (glass instead of silicone), or maybe a red / orange package (no phos).
 
I have the highest output LED setup ever tested. 502 lumens from a single die 1mmx1mm. jtr was kind enough to do the testing for me. Check here.

Thanks, I'd missed that before.

I've been running a small thrower type light that has a CREE XR-E Q5 in DD on an AW 18650 for a couple of weeks. It's running ~2 amps. So far so good. It is bright.:devil:
 
Saabluster did your thermoelectric petlier reach the maximum -60?

I wonder hypothetically what load the internal wires can support?
 
The bond wires are the weak link, not the heat from the die.
Try the other way around. At least on these Cree XR-Es. If you check out that link I provided up above you will notice that in jtr's test the LED will still keep working after it has already peaked in output and started to decrease. Also I did a quick test on one of my Q5s a while back and took it up to 3.2A for 5 seconds with no damage to the LED. I really need to do a full test to find the absolute limits of the bond wires. It appears however to be a very high limit and shows that the weak link is the die at this point.
 
Pelteers are sweet! :) I made a drink cooler out of a 30W pelt and an Intel retail heatsink. It freezes small amounts of water within 30 seconds. :)

I'd be interested to see what a P7 is capable of... 2000lm?
 
It was jtr's peltier. I don't know how cold it got but I seem to remember the info being in his thread somewhere.
I used a fan-cooled thermoelectric setup for those tests:

Amber_Luxeon_TEC_1.jpg


LED is obviously not a Cree-the picture is from my amber luxeon low temperature testing about 3 years ago but I used the same setup for my extreme Cree R2 tests. I don't think the temperature got all that low because I did my testing in the summer. The high dewpoint resulted in a lot of condensation on the LED. Besides that, I think the ambient temperature in the room was about 75°F. My air-cooled thermoelectric setup can only get to about 90°F under ambient (and that's with no heat load). I doubt I got the Cree much below freezing (32°F) in these tests. The moisture buildup was making lux readings hard to get.

Note that in the other thread I linked to I did manage to achieve temperatures of -44°C, but this was in February, and using a water-cooled thermoelectric setup. Also, I was only powering the LED at 350 mA. I estimate that I could probably get a bit under -30°C putting a Cree overdriven around 2.7 amps using the same setup. With the water-cooled thermoelectric setup, every additional watt of heat load increases the cold-side temperature by roughly 1°C.

If I could somehow avoid frost buildup on the LED, the water-cooled 2-stage units I built for my thermoelectric freezer are capable of achieving about -62°C with no thermal load using winter tap water. These are more sensitive to thermal load than single stage units. 1 watt of load increases the temperature by roughly 1.25°C. I could probably get a 1-watt LED close to -60°C with a bit of luck and a lot of insulation over everything except the dome.
 
In one project we used some type of HP LED as a liquid nitrogen (LN) overflow detector. The LED would get VERY BRIGHT and the current would go down when LN was present, so the LED efficiency appeared to be getting higher. It was an internally current limited LED (and there was also a resistor in series), so there could have been something going on with the current limiting components also. It was good at detecting the cooling capacity of liquid LN, not just the temperature since the gas or gas/liquid mix passing by was basically all at the same 80K temperature anyway. But the cooling capacity of the flow increased dramatically when the liquid content was significant and the LED responded to that. This detector was used to tell when the automated dewar filling cycle was complete.

You may have even seen this system briefly in the Hulk movie of several years ago, as this was the Gammasphere detector that they filmed. They called it a Gamma ray source, actually it is a detector. Each of the more than 100 detectors had a large LN cooled vacuum insulated Germanium crystal and its own dewar, all of which had to be filled several times per day.

I would think a copper heat transfer bar with LN on the other end would provide pretty good cooling. That is the way the crystals were cooled, the LN did not touch the crystal. There was a heat transfer finger.

Dry Ice is readily available these days at most grocery stores, so that is another possibility. I seem to recall a mix of dry ice and alcohol made a good cooling bath, but I'm not certain that is right.

Another trick is to pulse the current, say one second on and several seconds off to prevent heat buildup in the wires or phosphor.
 
In one project we used some type of HP LED as a liquid nitrogen (LN) overflow detector. The LED would get VERY BRIGHT and the current would go down when LN was present, so the LED efficiency appeared to be getting higher. It was an internally current limited LED (and there was also a resistor in series), so there could have been something going on with the current limiting components also. It was good at detecting the cooling capacity of liquid LN, not just the temperature since the gas or gas/liquid mix passing by was basically all at the same 80K temperature anyway. But the cooling capacity of the flow increased dramatically when the liquid content was significant and the LED responded to that. This detector was used to tell when the automated dewar filling cycle was complete.

You may have even seen this system briefly in the Hulk movie of several years ago, as this was the Gammasphere detector that they filmed. They called it a Gamma ray source, actually it is a detector. Each of the more than 100 detectors had a large LN cooled vacuum insulated Germanium crystal and its own dewar, all of which had to be filled several times per day.

I would think a copper heat transfer bar with LN on the other end would provide pretty good cooling. That is the way the crystals were cooled, the LN did not touch the crystal. There was a heat transfer finger.

Dry Ice is readily available these days at most grocery stores, so that is another possibility. I seem to recall a mix of dry ice and alcohol made a good cooling bath, but I'm not certain that is right.

Another trick is to pulse the current, say one second on and several seconds off to prevent heat buildup in the wires or phosphor.

Kewl!
 
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