The Million Dollar Question-Surefire+Cree

I don't know why but I keep getting the feeling Surefire isn't going to jump on
the Cree bandwagon anytime soon. I hope I am wrong. Thought's, comment's?

I have a feeling they won't too; they don't seem to be a particularly dexterous company and even with existing products it always seems to be out of stock. Maybe they even have some contract with Lumileds for bulk purchases (just assumption).

It would be really cool if they had a premium Cree line but even if they miss it, they may upgrade their lights in future with the new wave of Luxeon LEDs (which I hope do come soon). WW0H Lux IIIs anyone?

Surefire got all the Q3 from Cree that why Cree don't have any "Q" to sell to us.
J/K

A Cree in the L1 would make a lot of sense, it would be a monster with that TIR optic. Next month is the SHOT show and we should know by then...with pix!

Does anyone know when the surefire catalogs for the new year usually come out? I would assume after the shot show.

light_emitting_dude said:

Does anyone know when the surefire catalogs for the new year usually come out? I would assume after the shot show.

Click to expand...

mid spring to early summer, thats where I ordered last years catalogs

I suppose you might be right about it being after the shotshow

light_emitting_dude said:

Does anyone know when the surefire catalogs for the new year usually come out? I would assume after the shot show.

Click to expand...

The catalogs are released at SureFire's booth at the SHOT Show. It may take a while for them to offer them online.

LEDcandle said:

they don't seem to be a particularly dexterous company and even with existing products it always seems to be out of stock.

Click to expand...

That's because they have trouble keeping up with demand for their products. When the Military places orders for WeaponLights SureFire naturally ensures that it delivers and this can mean that the schedules for producing other products is set back.

As for the question "SureFire+Cree?"
Shot Show is almost upon us and I'm sure if there's ever a time to find out it'll be then...

There is a chance luxeon has some serious stuff in the works. We'll have to wait and see.

65535 said:

There is a chance luxeon has some serious stuff in the works. We'll have to wait and see.

Click to expand...

I think for LumiLed they better have something good coming down the pipe. :lolsign:

At least for us enthusiast folks ... however, others have mentioned that in the grand scheme of things the 800 lb gorilla usually has such an advantage in the marketplace. They don't have to react so quickly because the average person has no idea what "cree" is .. and the vast majority of led products in the mainstream are non-cree at the moment.

However, it would have to take an incredible amount of ignorance or arrogance for Lumiled to stay put and not innovate. I'm sure they have a semi-answer up their sleeve. To what degree we can't say.

All I know is that when Fenix offers a cree light in the AA variety i'm in there. Not gonna buy a luxeon again for myself personally. Then again, I don't make up the bulk of sales for Lumiled.

bill_n_opus said:

All I know is that when Fenix offers a cree light in the AA variety i'm in there. Not gonna buy a luxeon again for myself personally. Then again, I don't make up the bulk of sales for Lumiled.

Click to expand...

They already have.

SureFire has had access to these and other emitters for months. There is no doubt they will come out with flashlights using "next gen" emitters. SureFire has no exclusivity agreement with Lumileds (If they did we would only see lumiled emitters in their products. The A2 uses emitters other that Lumileds for example).
SureFire must have the desire to extend runtimes and output levels. These are major selling points to both civilian and military consumers the world over. Companies like Fenix are making inroads into the SureFire market. Surefire MUST respond. And they will. There can be NO doubt that Surefires R&D has been hard at work working with these new emitters, building up designs suitable for military, police and civillan use.
It has been said that These new emitters are capable of producing lumen levels very close to lights like the 6P. Very much a standard in the industry. Yes Fellas it is just a matter of time (not long) before new flashlights based on "next gen" emitters are announced. The shot Show will be very telling. I doubt that SureFire will be the only company announcing lights based on SS or Cree emitters there.

The Flashlight industry is growing. competition is becoming fierce. The next year is going to be great for us flashlight freaks. Especially those of us who not only enjoy custom flashlights but also enjoy commercially made flashlights.
Think about it. Look at what you could get say 5 years ago compared to what you find today at a place like target or frys. It is simply amazing how much (especially LED based) more product there is.
SureFire has a strong desire to maintain leadership in the military and police markets. This benifits guys like us because we are willing to pay more for a light than the average Joe.
SureFire will announce new lights at the shot show.
The real question is why in the world wouldn't they?

Yaesumofo

I'm not to sure if Surefire is going to come out with Cree lights. But if they do its going to take a while mainly because of one one reason. They are a huge company, they have to mass produce more lights than any other flashlight company. If you have ever been into a gun store you would most definteley see a Surefire more than any other flashlight. Other companies like Fenix are able to come out with Cree lights so quickly because they don't have as much orders to fill. So basically by the time Surefire is able to come out with a Cree light, other manuacturers will most likely be way ahead of Surefire.

(My opinion)

Fenris said:

They already have.

Click to expand...

awesome ... I can't believe I missed that thread. Actually, it's because I glossed over and thought it was the old p1-d ce thread.

Credit card ready, locked and loaded.

When I first showed up lurking at CPF (July 2002) there were two Luxeon lights to get. Surefire L1 and Arc LS. That shows that Surefire embraces new technology although lately they are overloaded trying to get product to the military.

The manufacturing side is running hard but the R&D side is generally not effected by that. They have the freedome to evaluate new stuff as yaesumofo's shot shows PK with the SSC folks in the picture. You can bet PK has some amazing prototype lights running SSC and Cree LEDs inside and is working with both manufacturers to get them right.

The SHOT show is next week :rock: and I can't wait to see what Surefire, Streamlight, Peak, Novatach and others have up their sleeves.

As far as the Fenix L1D CE goes, Jetbeam is releasing their Cree XRE P4 bin light next Monday to ship. 5 levels, HA-III, sapphire lens and runs on a single AA for $29.00. Fenix should follow a week later with Huntlight and Lumapower shipping their versions by the end of the month.

Surefire said something about an AA powered light last year, wonder if the XRE/SSC emitters will allow them to make one this year? Wonder if Fenix (and others) have pushed that idea to the side? For now

BentHeadTX said:

Surefire said something about an AA powered light last year, wonder if the XRE/SSC emitters will allow them to make one this year? Wonder if Fenix (and others) have pushed that idea to the side? For now

Click to expand...

PK showed the CPF Party proto-types of the so-called "PocketRocket" -
a Titanium CR2 powered light with a dial to adjust the output from the LED set in a reflector. The PocketRockets were shown off hanging round the necks of some delightful SureFire employees (and PK) - the intent being that this flashlight being stylish and constructed from the finest materials is for those who have everything else and want the best (and best looking) flashlight money can buy.

PK demonstrated that with an adapter it could be powered by an AA battery but I got the impression that the concept of AA power was not important since economy in this application was not important.

Whether SureFire will ever venture into the AA powered market with a dedicated flashlight was not something that was show-cased at SS2006.
As for whether this will change for SS2007 is something we'll find out next week.

Al

When the the new Cree lights hit the stores and the general public can compare lights side by side, Surefire will have to upgrade to Cree.

Art Vandelay said:

When the the new Cree lights hit the stores and the general public can compare lights side by side, Surefire will have to upgrade to Cree.

Click to expand...

I don't suppose SureFire have to do anything. It's likely they will take advantage of ever better LEDs but that does not mean they have to use Cree. It is within the realms of possibility that SureFire has a better understanding of the future of LEDs then CPFers do. IMHO anyways.

Size15's said:

I don't suppose SureFire have to do anything. It's likely they will take advantage of ever better LEDs but that does not mean they have to use Cree. It is within the realms of possibility that SureFire has a better understanding of the future of LEDs then CPFers do. IMHO anyways.

Click to expand...

I agree ... however, the funny thing is that there have been examples of 800lb gorillas in business that make critical errors in not responding to the change in technology ... they don't assess the very real change in the business landscape as being a threat to their own existence as they have become too much of a fat cat business.

Take IBM for example. Big Blue would be still "Big" if they wouldn't have been so arrogant or comfortable.

I'm not equating Surefire with IBM ... but i'm just saying that people are wondering what they are doing behind the scenes. Are they sitting on their laurels? Or are they innovating and don't like to tip their hand until the time is right?

What movie line is that where it goes something like: ..."Assumption is a motherf ....!"?

I believe CPFers who come to the parties that PK hosts at the SHOT Shows see SureFire as anything but "resting"!

I don't see any merit in trying to make assumptions about what SureFire is doing so close (like just over a week) to when we get the best chance to find out.

If SF is open to new design, new product or encouraged to improve on existing lights due to competition, I expect that in the near future, they will do some investigation with EZ1000 chip based LED's. When a chip hits the scene that is twice as bright as its competition and a company goes by the motto of smaller, better, brighter then it isn't too much of a stretch to assume any current R&D would be considering such a chip.

However, we have seen SF products take a year from publicly anounced to available production. This is an eternity compared to the quick response of modders and small manufacturers who cater to the CPF crowd. If you pick a time line of say 3 years from today, will SF be using Cree EZ1000 or its later generation equivilant? :thinking: :shrug:

We have some thin ice in these confusing times and a heavy slow walker like SF needs to be even more careful as to where they tread, IMHO.