What's next after all the 1,000 lumen lights?

Hi everyone,

There just seems to be so many (approx) 1,000 lumen lights at the moment from all the manufacturers.

Was just wondering when the next big thing will be headed our way that we can run on 1 x 18650, 2 x CR123, 2 x AA etc etc and what are we looking at - 2,000 lumens? 3,000 or more?

All the best,

Face

2000 lumens of course! :huh:

Either that or they will focus on the low end. How low can they go with any semblance of usefulness? 0.01 Lumen?

After 1K's, I predict combinations (various battery configs), wild UI's, variable color temperatures. I predict sizes will shrink wildly. Bluetooth user interface for full programmability and monitoring. You will be able to adjust the color of the led, monitor temperatures of led, battery and drivers, as well as in-depth battery analytics. This all via a app on your smart phone. No smart phone? No problem, it will email the data to you via built in wifi connectivity.

We're basically at a slowing output point but increasing diversity/options/quality.

The typical top output Cree LED 7+ years ago was around 60-65 CRI & not below 5000K.

Now we have that same great output in the 75+ CRI range which is a huge difference.

And we have good output down to 3000K & as high as 85 CRI.

Kinda like currently multi 1000's of lumens come from multiple LED lights I don't see us jumping to 2000 lumens on 2xCR123 for awhile. 1200-1500 sure but not 2-3K.

Eagles1181 said:

Either that or they will focus on the low end. How low can they go with any semblance of usefulness? 0.01 Lumen?

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They already have the low end covered in my opinion. Not sure how low my HDS goes but any lower and it would be useless so in my opinion they can put all of their focus onto the high modes.

I think more high modes is more in the LED makers wheelhouse and not so much flashlight manufacturer's. In order to get a substantial increase in brightness, or runtime, or the ability to use small batteries is going to require an increase in efficiency, both from being able to more out of a battery, but also from thermal limitations.

Eagle

Here's what I think Cree might do, or at least I Hope they do.

First a little background:

They took the XM-L2 die and put straight sides on the dome in order to fit it on a XP-G2 substrate - And they called it the XP-L. One advantage of this, is that the LEDs can now be placed closer together in commercial arrays. - I really see no need to have both the XM-L2 and the Xp-L existing together long term.

Here is what I would like to see happen, if possible: Take the XM-L2 substrate and 'fill it out' as it were so that the die covers the whole surface like with the XP-L. - This would result in a 2X increase in surface area of the emitter, and so moving from 1k to 2k lumens.

We have something similar today but using 4 XPG-? dies, called the XHP50.

http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Arrays-Directional/XLamp-XHP50

The XHP while nice, requires the use of an OP reflector to clean up the beam pattern, thus limiting throw somewhat.

I dunno - Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
-Chuck

Eagles1181 said:

Either that or they will focus on the low end. How low can they go with any semblance of usefulness? 0.01 Lumen?

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No way. Higher lumen numbers sells more flashlights. Tint and ui be damned. More lumens means more $

Eagles1181 said:

I think more high modes is more in the LED makers wheelhouse and not so much flashlight manufacturer's. In order to get a substantial increase in brightness, or runtime, or the ability to use small batteries is going to require an increase in efficiency, both from being able to more out of a battery, but also from thermal limitations.

Eagle

Click to expand...

Fortunately, TESLA Motors is working on the above point and we're going be the beneficiaries of their successes. Currently, Cree has 4K LEDs so I know there's more coming down the line. Also, NiteCore has an announced EC4S @ +2000 lm which is expected to be released in the next couple of weeks.

Take heart, more is coming.

My rather conservative guess is that current trends will continue. LED advances will follow Moore's Law. Battery advances will be incremental. Even if output were to remain the same, simply increasing the efficiency of an emitter (and thereby reducing its waste heat), would be a boon to the flashlight industry.

I think 1K lumens will be the limit for some time till they figured out how to dissipate the heat more efficiently unless they want to launch 1 min of 2k lumens.

Bring on liquid cooling!
Forced air, with
Retractable vents!
External magnetized heat sinks!

I'm ready. ☺

The next thing I would LIKE to see is a flood to throw allowing 1000+ lumens in a unit with an optic small enough to carry in your pocket (1 x 18660 size) and fully light a large room (think as bright as overhead lighting) and throw 50k lux +. Both beams should be white wall hunter approved with hi cri. I don't know if the advance must come in battery capacity, optic construction, or led but that's what I want.

Don't we already have lights like that in the form of a NiteCore EC4? And NiteCore has a 2k lm light on it's way in the form of a EC4S. But they use two 18650s. The MH20 is 1000 lm and uses one 18650.

Like everything, I we're all expecting advances in battery and LED manufacturing.

Hopefully LED manufacturers start focusing on making their LEDs approach the sun in both CRI and color temperature now since they're achieving such high lumen outputs. Getting high CRI and a high CCT with lots of lumens is the future...hopefully.

twistedraven said:

Hopefully LED manufacturers start focusing on making their LEDs approach the sun in both CRI and color temperature now since they're achieving such high lumen outputs. Getting high CRI and a high CCT with lots of lumens is the future...hopefully.

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Hmmmmmmmm! Probably won't happen until some government agency like NASA is willing to pay for the R&R. How much are folks willing to pay for high CRI LEDs?

Parrot Quack said:

Don't we already have lights like that in the form of a NiteCore EC4? And NiteCore has a 2k lm light on it's way in the form of a EC4S. But they use two 18650s. The MH20 is 1000 lm and uses one 18650.

Like everything, I we're all expecting advances in battery and LED manufacturing.

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Neither are zoomers - no flood to throw capability.

Smartphone-mount RGB emitter package, app for output/tint/color/signal control, timed event/alert/voice control, etc.

Sounds like overkill until you realize what the camera folks are doing with smartphones nowadays..

recDNA said:

Neither are zoomers - no flood to throw capability.

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I'm not sure what you're trying to share in your above. ??? I'm the confused one, not you.

I'm currently looking at a NiteCore TM36 Lite. I don't think I'll need more in a thrower. But this is a four, 18650 battery light.

The EC4 is surprisingly good as both flood and thrower but again, it's a two 18650 light. I can't say about the EC4S as it hasn't been released yet. And yes, the MH20 is an excellent flooder but it's not designed to be a thrower.

Are you saying we need a powerful light that can be focused like a Maglite?