CREE's neutrals have an ugly tint. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral lights?

[Silgt]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

I can desaturate the pattern above and see the 29 in shades of grey.

#29 in shades of green

 

[2xTrinity]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

I was actually being a bit facetious about the colorblindness test. The projectors in our classroom had a terrible color gamut, therefore those kinds of tests were almost completely unintelligible. If you looked at the test printed on paper or used on a high quality monitor, likely 95%+ of the class would have been "not colorblind"

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

I was actually being a bit facetious about the colorblindness test. The projectors in our classroom had a terrible color gamut, therefore those kinds of tests were almost completely unintelligible. If you looked at the test printed on paper or used on a high quality monitor, likely 95%+ of the class would have been "not colorblind"

i get it

 

[HighlanderNorth]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

As already said tint perceptions are totally individual. I think much of it has to they way peoples eyes see color. My eyes are a little deficient in the red range so the neutral tints make up for that an make things look right for me. Cools appear grossly blue to me.

Another thing I've found is that you can compare any two lights together and one will looks worse than the other. If you put a cool next to an outdoor neutral (5000 - 5500K range) the neutral will appear very warm. If you put a neutral (4000-4500K) next to a HiCRI XPG in the 3000K range the neutral will appear to be very cool.

Everything is perception and variety lets everyone be happy. Many cool lovers will knock neutral tints until they try them and really give them a shot.

Also - when you a single tint for a while it appears to look just 'right'. If you then switch to a cooler or warmer tint it will appear off until your eyes adjust.

WHat you said here is 100% accurate. I can look at one light, and and its tint might look very neutral and white, but when I compare it to another light, it'll look slightly greenish in comparison, for instance. It seems that tints are relative to other tints.

 

[HighlanderNorth]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

In one of my classes in college they actaully proved that every single one of the 33 people in attendance was colorblind because they couldn't correctly read the following number when it was shown on the projector:

I see the big dipper there^. Is that right?

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

WHat you said here is 100% accurate. I can look at one light, and and its tint might look very neutral and white, but when I compare it to another light, it'll look slightly greenish in comparison, for instance. It seems that tints are relative to other tints.

I don't know. The Nichia examples are just whiter without a spike in green or yellow, or orange (for warms), or blue (for cool) that taints CREE LED performance in general.

The Nichia 219's slightly rose tint burns off leaving just a bit of rose at the fringes. This rose tint helps saturate colors making them richer. From blues to greens to yellows, browns and red. They all look good.

 

[Norm]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

I see #29 in shades of salmon and burgundy.

Norm

 

[BenChiew]

CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral lights?

I see many busy dots with a red outline of 29.

 

[tam17]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral ligh

This problem has a very simple solution: get custom lights with N219 and completely avoid Cree neutrals. I'm completely satisfied with my neutral XM-L.

Cheers

 

[Moonwayman]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

Thanks for posting this hcri xpg vs 119 shots. I own an hcri xpg but have not seen the 119 in person. Are the pictures below of 119 representative of what you perceive? The xpg shot does capture the spirit of what I seed in real life, though it seems richer and a bit warmer to my eyes in real life. Is the 219 warmer than the 119?

"High Cri" XPG (bottom) vs Nichia 119 (top)

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

Thanks for posting this hcri xpg vs 119 shots. I own an hcri xpg but have not seen the 119 in person. Are the pictures below of 119 representative of what you perceive? The xpg shot does capture the spirit of what I seed in real life, though it seems richer and a bit warmer to my eyes in real life. Is the 219 warmer than the 119?

The 219 gives a little more color saturation and has a perceptible rose tint. Check this out:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...a-219)-Now-my-XML-beams-feel-garish-and-fugly

When you have better overall color rendering, whatever you are pointing the light at has better depth separation. It's easier to perceive slight shades of color (differences) things APPEAR more natural.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral ligh

This problem has a very simple solution: get custom lights with N219 and completely avoid Cree neutrals. I'm completely satisfied with my neutral XM-L.

Cheers

Yeah, CREE LED's are adequate, I guess. There are better options if you require more realistic color space illumination however. Pics speak for themselves I'm sure the Nichia's come to favor more readily with photographers for this very reason.

 

[yellow]

only ...
by "Cree CM-L neutral white (5000K)" You are just near the actual tint, but not really know it,
maybe You got a "3S" or something


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nd-Vf-Charts-and-Links-for-Popular-White-LEDs
(PS: I remember that once we considered "WD" tint (6.000 K) as being neutral ...)


but the nichia seems to be some lighting device when someone KNOWS what to want...
-->considerably reduced output for "better" (better suiting?) light.
there surely are worse tradeoffs

 

[Moonwayman]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

Thanks the Tabasco pictures say it all. Giant difference between the two. Yeah the xml can toss out some serious lumens, but these hcri's are very pleasant to the eye. The 219 does look very nice, now I have to find one.

The 219 gives a little more color saturation and has a perceptible rose tint. Check this out:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343502-Fell-over-into-the-HI-CRI-side-%28Nichia-219%29-Now-my-XML-beams-feel-garish-and-fugly

When you have better overall color rendering, whatever you are pointing the light at has better depth separation. It's easier to perceive slight shades of color (differences) things APPEAR more natural.

 

[markr6]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral ligh

I believe I'm correct in saying the PD32UE has the XM-L 5000K. But mine looks NOTHING like this. I mean, not even close. That looks much greener, at least on my monitor.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral ligh

only ...
by "Cree CM-L neutral white (5000K)" You are just near the actual tint, but not really know it,
maybe You got a "3S" or something


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nd-Vf-Charts-and-Links-for-Popular-White-LEDs
(PS: I remember that once we considered "WD" tint (6.000 K) as being neutral ...)


but the nichia seems to be some lighting device when someone KNOWS what to want...
-->considerably reduced output for "better" (better suiting?) light.
there surely are worse tradeoffs

I have close to 1,000+ lumens with my Kerberos quad Nichia 219 drop in. "Considerably reduced output" isn't even a consideration here.

original: http://oi46.tinypic.com/xkn2if.jpg

Original: http://oi49.tinypic.com/f59bon.jpg

BOOM

 

[think2x]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral ligh

I wouldn't call them ugly, it's all the luck of the draw with cree it seems. Nichia 219 is by far my favorite emitter, even with the loss in output over cree BUT I have a Quark XP-G Neutral from the last run that looks to be around 4200k compared to the 219. I traded for this light specifically to do a 219 swap to it but when it arrived I could not bring myself to do it because the tint was so great. I've also done a NovaTac swap to XM-L that the customer bought and sent the emitter along with the light and it was also very,very close in tint to the Quark......Beautiful.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral ligh

I wouldn't call them ugly, it's all the luck of the draw with cree it seems. Nichia 219 is by far my favorite emitter, even with the loss in output over cree BUT I have a Quark XP-G Neutral from the last run that looks to be around 4200k compared to the 219. I traded for this light specifically to do a 219 swap to it but when it arrived I could not bring myself to do it because the tint was so great. I've also done a NovaTac swap to XM-L that the customer bought and sent the emitter along with the light and it was also very,very close in tint to the Quark......Beautiful.

Did you shine the Nichia light next to the Quark for a real world comparison then choose?

You see, a 4200k light from one emitter can STILL cast an underlying tint that makes colors appear different from another 4200k emitter.

Reading this part about (C)olor (R)endering (I)ndex Criticisms in Wiki will give insight as to why:

"Ohno (2006) and others have criticized CRI for not always correlating well with subjective color rendering quality in practice,
particularly for light sources with spiky emission spectra such as fluorescent lamps or white LEDs."

One Hi-CRI light's spectrum can be vastly different from another even though the lights color temperature looks similar:

This explains why "Hi-CRI" doesn't always correlate better color rendering.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index#Criticism_and_resolution

I'm sure the Nichia 219 has it's own faulty spikes in its output spectrum, but not to the detriment seen in the majority of CREE LED's yellow,
green, orange and blue tainted hues.

Gag.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

Thanks the Tabasco pictures say it all. Giant difference between the two. Yeah the xml can toss out some serious lumens, but these hcri's are very pleasant to the eye. The 219 does look very nice, now I have to find one.

I think more accurate colors trumps lumens. The information gleaned from the correctly perceived colors of your surroundings hits all the right nerve centers in your visual cortex No seriously,
imagine sprinting through thick forest foliage with a CREE XML warm (err yellow?) blazing in front of you. Browns and greens wash each other out, you're unsure if those are leaves and vines
you need to dodge, or actually a branch!

The Nichia's are like trigonometry nerds. The CREE LED's are like brainless steroid bodybuilders. Yeah they have output, but missing acumen.

 

[skyfire]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly hue. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML

i have lights with nichia 219 and high cri xpg, and my personal preference is still with the warmer xpg high cri, although i have zero complaints with the nichia 219.
i even prefer the high cri SSC P4 over the nichia 219 because its a little warmer, but incan still provides the highest quality light.