CREE's neutrals have an ugly tint. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral lights?

[Studey]

I don't have a neutral XPG, but here's the C2 quad Nichia 219 pointing straight up (med power ~400 lumens) at a white sheet of paper "ceiling bounce" lighting the scene.

Zero ambient lighting. Camera ISO Auto. What it photographed is what I see. Color rendering and all.

Different shades of whites (eggs, carton, garlic) included for clarity.

Full size: http://oi46.tinypic.com/24lufxl.jpg

And the Quad CREE XPG-R5

Full Size: http://oi45.tinypic.com/s4swa9.jpg

Side by Side: http://oi48.tinypic.com/2hnz5zr.jpg

I like the second one better.

 

[jorn]

I have a ZebraLight SC600 Warm, and the tint is garishly yellow. And what's wrong with comparison photo's?

So you dislike xp-g and xm-l neutrals based on one zebralight.

Whats wrong with digital photos is explained. So many varibles, and when you take a picture of something, is not exactly what you see. If so, we wouldent need pro photograpers, filters, photoshop etc. Then on top of it all we all got different monitors with different settings. But you dont seem to understand it. Take the white wall pic above as a example. The 219 looks gray'ish with slightly green and the other looks yello. None of my 219's look like that.

 

[Norm]

I don't have a neutral XPG, but here's the C2 quad Nichia 219 pointing straight up (med power ~400 lumens) at a white sheet of paper "ceiling bounce" lighting the scene.

I don't think the difference is that noticeable or even important, both look fine and would do the job adequately. You're splitting hairs and looking for differences that to the most flashaholics are unimportant as evidenced by the replies in this thread.

I wonder whether you are as critical when choosing light bulbs for your house?
I know I spend far more time under artificial light than I would ever spend looking at stuff with a flashlight.
My main bulbs are quite noticeable cold cheap blue tinged Chinese light bulbs and I've never consciously sat and thought about the tint.
I have many 219 flashlights probably because it's my hobby and they seem to be the flavour of the moment.
I recently bought both the cool white and 219 triple drop ins from Illumination Supply, I really like the cool white for the amount of lumens it puts out and can also appreciate the 219, if I was forced to choose, I'd keep the cool white the output is far more important to me than the fantastic tint of the 219.



Norm

 

[ledmitter_nli]

I don't think the difference is that noticeable or even important, both look fine and would do the job adequately. You're splitting hairs and looking for differences that to the most flashaholics are unimportant as evidenced by the replies in this thread.

I wonder whether you are as critical when choosing light bulbs for your house?
I know I spend far more time under artificial light than I would ever spend looking at stuff with a flashlight.
My main bulbs are quite noticeable cold cheap blue tinged Chinese light bulbs and I've never consciously sat and thought about the tint.
I have many 219 flashlights probably because it's my hobby and they seem to be the flavour of the moment.
I recently bought both the cool white and 219 triple drop ins from Illumination Supply, I really like the cool white for the amount of lumens it puts out and can also appreciate the 219, if I was forced to choose, I'd keep the cool white the output is far more important to me than the fantastic tint of the 219.



Norm

I originally picked the Kerberos quad XPG for the output (deciding to sell it). Liked it, used it a few times then picked up a quad Nichia 219. Used it, and mind was blown at the difference. I can have a wall of light and have good color rendition? It's so much easier on the eyes when everything doesn't look 2 dimensional like it's being illuminated with the sterilizing tint of a fluorescent bug zapper.

I can use my Klarus XT11 for throw if needed (to blind someone) or the Eagletac MX25L2 SAR light.

But I live in the city. Does anyone who lives next to buildings need to put a 1' diameter hot spot onto the wall? Or into the trunk of a car? Seriously do you?

I have different needs. It's all flood. 1,200+ lumens of tightened flood is pretty darn nice

I'm picky about bulbs too. For home, it's soft white CFL's with good color rendition. GE Reveal type are a particular favorite.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

So you dislike xp-g and xm-l neutrals based on one zebralight.

Whats wrong with digital photos is explained. So many varibles, and when you take a picture of something, is not exactly what you see. If so, we wouldent need pro photograpers, filters, photoshop etc. Then on top of it all we all got different monitors with different settings. But you dont seem to understand it. Take the white wall pic above as a example. The 219 looks gray'ish with slightly green and the other looks yello. None of my 219's look like that.

^^^ This is where user experience and their personal testimony corroborates what is trying to be 'captured'.

For your added convenience:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...utral-lights&p=4135314&viewfull=1#post4135314

 

[jorn]

^^^ This is where user experience and their personal testimony corroborates what is trying to be 'captured'.

For your added convenience:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...utral-lights&p=4135314&viewfull=1#post4135314

You can find even more user experience and happyfaces over different cool whites. So that tread proves nothing. Different leds do different stuff. The same way as different engines fits different vehicles. The hayabusa engine is great in a mc, but wont be any good if you put 40 of them in a dumpster truck. The truck owner dont care about how good the engines revs or sounds. He cares about getting the job done with the least fuel spent. For a car, i would like a car engine. For a boat, a boat engine.
You have barly scratched the surface of the led world and found one great led. And now you are making a thread and claim you dont see the fuss of any other led.. And wont even listen to the points experienced "drivers" brings to this tread. Fine. But youre kind of stepping on the car, boat and truck guys feets based on testimonials from mc entusiasts.. Different leds got different strengts and flashoholics enjoys the ones that fills their needs the best way. Tints, beampattern, cri, efficiency, surface brighness. There are lots of things to consider. And no led got it all.

 

[Mikeg23]

I wonder whether you are as critical when choosing light bulbs for your house?
Norm

I have a horrible time picking house lights! I usually save the packages of the ones that I like and then just buy the same ones next time...

 

[darkknightlight]

Re: CREE's neutrals have an ugly tint. Why all the fanfare for XPG or XML neutral

I dont remember. Bought this a loong time ago when the lf2xt was "cheap" and still in production. I think it was 4750k. It's one of the few aaa lights i got that still have the stock led. Really like this one. Now they are hard to find and expensive. Mine has survived the washing machine 3 times. It's starting to get dinged up at the front end..

Same thing with my quark mini aa with a xp-e q3 5a3. Just as nice as my nichia 219's, but i dident want to use it in the pics. Got way more lux on target, so i desided to only use 4 diffrent aaa lights.

Thanks for the info! I've been a big fan of the xp-e for some time now, I'll have to find some "older" lights with that particular bin

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[ledmitter_nli]

You can find even more user experience and happyfaces over different cool whites. So that tread proves nothing. Different leds do different stuff. The same way as different engines fits different vehicles. The hayabusa engine is great in a mc, but wont be any good if you put 40 of them in a dumpster truck. The truck owner dont care about how good the engines revs or sounds. He cares about getting the job done with the least fuel spent. For a car, i would like a car engine. For a boat, a boat engine.
You have barly scratched the surface of the led world and found one great led. And now you are making a thread and claim you dont see the fuss of any other led.. And wont even listen to the points experienced "drivers" brings to this tread. Fine. But youre kind of stepping on the car, boat and truck guys feets based on testimonials from mc entusiasts.. Different leds got different strengts and flashoholics enjoys the ones that fills their needs the best way. Tints, beampattern, cri, efficiency, surface brighness. There are lots of things to consider. And no led got it all.

Any user experience and happy faces converting from truly High CRI back to cool whites?

 

[tychoseven]

I love my Nichias; I have a P60 dropin and a Maratac copper AAA, both with 219s. Much as I like them, they aren't perfect: the light is a bit too sterile, almost flourescent-like in its character, and I'd prefer something warmer and more incan-like (but not as warm as the High-CRI Crees, 3500K-4000K sounds good). However, the Nichia 219 is the best I've found so far, for my needs.

In a few years we'll have something different, and hopefully better.

And no, there's no way I'm going back to cool whites.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

So I stumble across this thread, and as a novice, it alerts me to the presence of Nichia LED's and the fact they may have a nice tint for some. So, it seemed a bit difficult to parse out eligible lights from the thread, so out of curiosity I go try and find some headlamps based on Nichia LED's. Other than a Fenix that used a red LED and a Brunton I was unable to find much of anything. So I guess my question for ledmitter_nli is, even if someone were to embrace the argument and also become a Nichia evangelist, what are their options for lights based on current sate of the art Nichia's? Is their a list posted in another thread perhaps?

You can find mostly customs utilizing the LED. Many names are dropped in this thread of which I am unfamiliar:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?336907-Post-your-Nichia-219-4500k-beamshots

The Nichia 219 lights I have are custom as well and can be considered expensive for a flashlight (around $380) each. They run BRIGHT (approx 1,200 lumens OTF), they run HOT, and are compact in the SureFire C2 form factor. Runtime isn't long however when running full tilt about 40 min from 100% intensity to 70% using a good 3400mAh 18650 battery. Much more practical runtime can be achieved using med power ~400 lumens which is sufficient for most tasks. I'm still testing runtimes for med mode having acquired new batteries.

Search Kerberos (Kenji) who makes my particular dropin. He's located in Japan and makes the best dropin in its class (IMO) for build quality and precision.

One of his sales threads: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?310720

He's mostly word of mouth taking orders by PM these days. You'll have to specify 5.6A, High > Med > 50ma Low (moonlight low is also available)
(or another mode scheme with or without blink modes if needed), mode memory on or off.

For instance one quad can be a High > Med > Moonlight Low > High > Med > Moonlight Low > Strobe > Flash > SOS > Beacon > back to High
5.6A, 10621 Carlco Spotlight Optics, Mode memory off. Reverse polarity or thermal protection is not an option. Just be careful with batteries.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

I love my Nichias; I have a P60 dropin and a Maratac copper AAA, both with 219s. Much as I like them, they aren't perfect: the light is a bit too sterile, almost flourescent-like in its character, and I'd prefer something warmer and more incan-like (but not as warm as the High-CRI Crees, 3500K-4000K sounds good). However, the Nichia 219 is the best I've found so far, for my needs.

In a few years we'll have something different, and hopefully better.

And no, there's no way I'm going back to cool whites.

That's awesome to hear. It's like a new quote we can add to a growing list of user experiences with the Nichia 219.

Actually I found several more:

"I absolutely love the tint of my Malkoff M61 219.
I find it very neutral, just pure white light.
It doesn't seem as bright as other M61 offerings but the color temp makes up for it.

I used to think that Macs 2.8a SST-EDC was producing the perfect beam. I compared my MD2 with M61 219 to it. The EDC appears less bright with a cooler green tint. I was shocked."

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sh-and-fugly&p=4125279&viewfull=1#post4125279

"It's only a month ago since my very first experience with Nichia 219s. And yes; I would say that as well the tint and color rendition make them really pleasant and comfortable for the eyes.
I have placed my examples of M61 in each Surefire host, providing the best beam character, in my opinion.
Still I like the M61W and it provides better throw for same output but Nichia 219 is better for short distance and indoors."

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sh-and-fugly&p=4125221&viewfull=1#post4125221

"I love the Nichia 219 high cri from Illumiation supply and have modded a few lights (HDS, Kroma, Malkoff 2D Maglite drop in etc) with this LED. Then I have factory Nichia high cri 219s like my Piccolo AAA, Torchlab triple LMH Nichia drop in, Malkoff M61 Nichia 219 etc. so yes I love the Nichia high cri 219.

Problem is once you've gone to the dark side (or the high cri side) there's no way back to enjoying the poor color rendering of the standard LEDs anymore, so be warned all those thinking of trying high cri's of any color temperature."

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sh-and-fugly&p=4123681&viewfull=1#post4123681

"What I particularly like about Dave's (Nailbender) Nichia 219 drop-in is that after a little use (a couple of days), tint is no longer an issue - You forget the actual color temp. of the 'light and focus on how amazing things look: This, to me, is the essence of a neutral high color rendition; also there appears to be no color shift, at all, as the lower levels are accessed.

Out of the box the Nichia 219 had a suggestion of pink; not much, but it was visible. After a few hrs. runtime the pink had burnt off leaving gorgeous neutral and very useful light. This is the tint I have been looking for, " A tint that you don't even think about"!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sh-and-fugly&p=4020936&viewfull=1#post4020936

"I have some of the 4500K 219 from Illumination Supply that I've used in flood 'mule lights' for use during power outage. Yes, they have spoiled me for tint and Hi-CRI. Some of the Neutral XP-G's are close but the big problem I have with the XM-L is color separation. Yes, it is a problem in all of the LED's but the super size die of the XM-L puts it over the edge for my use. The cooler, almost purple light comes straight out the top while the warmer and yellows come out towards the edge. Depending on secondary optics or diffusion to put it back together has 'mixed' results."

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sh-and-fugly&p=4014672&viewfull=1#post4014672

"The 5000K one does seem close to ideal. Certainly a step up from the fugly yellow beams that pass themselves off as neutral."

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...sh-and-fugly&p=4014649&viewfull=1#post4014649

 

[jorn]

Any user experience and happy faces converting from truly High CRI back to cool whites?

Yes.. pepole that know different leds and their strengths.

So you mean if a person likes A, he cant like B or C? There is only black and white? How many throwers do you find with a nichia 219? None.. Why do you think it's so? The nichia has nothing to do in a thrower because it wont come close to some of the other leds in surface brightness.
So whats so special about hi cri? Its hyped a lot i can tell you that. You couldent even pick the hi cri out of a crowd on 3 attempt, and one of them gave you a 50/50 chance.. Why couldent you find the 219 hi cri's in 3 attempt if it's blows everything else away? You can go on and on about the nichia, it is a good led, but its far from "best for everything". And when pepole here have tried to tell you it's not the best for everything you come with something like: "no it's better with 40 motorcycle engines in a dumpster truck.. just take a look in this mc tread and see what pepole likes about this engine."

I bet if you keep coming to cpf the next years, educating yourself in the led world. You will when you find this tread... Seeing how narrow minded you once were..

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Yes.. pepole that know different leds and their strengths.

So you mean if a person likes A, he cant like B or C? There is only black and white? How many throwers do you find with a nichia 219? None.. Why do you think it's so? The nichia has nothing to do in a thrower because it wont come close to some of the other leds in surface brightness.
So whats so special about hi cri? Its hyped a lot i can tell you that. You couldent even pick the hi cri out of a crowd on 3 attempt, and one of them gave you a 50/50 chance.. Why couldent you find the 219 hi cri's in 3 attempt if it's blows everything else away? You can go on and on about the nichia, it is a good led, but its far from "best for everything". And when pepole here have tried to tell you it's not the best for everything you come with something like: "no it's better with 40 motorcycle engines in a dumpster truck.. just take a look in this mc tread and see what pepole likes about this engine."

I bet if you keep coming to cpf the next years, educating yourself in the led world. You will when you find this tread... Seeing how narrow minded you once were..

See above in bold. Any CPF examples (testimonials) of this conversion?

Thought not

Hey. I might get a Polarion PF40 HID searchlight. So this topic is kind of petered out for me now.

On the fence observers can read the testimonials and see the samples presented and make their own judgements.

:wave:

 

[Norm]

On the fence observers can read the testimonials and see the samples presented and make their own judgements.:

People have been making their own judgements throughout this thread, which unfortunately you, to your detriment failed to hear.

So this topic is kind of petered out for me now.:

Thread Closed - Norm :wave: