1000 lumen HDS

[bigburly912]

I EDC more than one light but one of them is a Emisar D4 XPL-HI A3 4,300 Lumens. It is in my pocket right now with my Hinderer XM-18 and beside my Glock 19.

Kangaroo? [emoji16] good set of gear however you carry it.

 

[Modernflame]

@Mr.LED. What's the link to the web page with the HDS output vs. runtime? I had it bookmarked at one time, but I seem to have lost it.

Cheers

 

[Mr. LED]

It's a little buried in the FAQ

https://www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/#LevelRuntimes

This other link is for the brightness levels

https://www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/#LevelBrightness

 

[thermal guy]

Very good comparison right there my friend.

 

[bykfixer]

To this flashaholic EDC means portability first. Brute force comes in at least second, maybe 3rd behind reliability. Guaranteed reliability. These days a one cell light can do a lot more than not that long ago and still be reliable.

Also to me EDC tops out around 600-700 lumens based on again, portability and reliability. 2 fuel cells can easily do that and the body still be fairly portable. I'd rather have a well driven, steady output with a few hundred less lumens than something over driven since it could quite possibly be reducing the life span of the emitter enough to put doubt in my brain about reliabilty.

I cannot speak from experience about either HDS or Zebralight actually. But if I were the sort who preferred Mercedes over my Ford I'd have a few HDS lights long before a single Zebralight. Nothing against Zebralight mind-you. Hell I still think the 3 watt Luxeon was the best LED with XPG-2 a close second.

 

[StarHalo]

I cannot speak from experience about either HDS or Zebralight actually.

Okay.

But if I were the sort who preferred Mercedes over my Ford I'd have a few HDS lights long before a single Zebralight.

Huh?

 

[RCS1300]

So once you understand the above, you can see how with your small 250 lumen HDS light, you really can 4x the performance and see further into the darkness than with a 1000 lumen light.

When cost is a factor people make trade offs and then rationalize their decision. When cost is not a factor people look for the best product to meet their needs. Unfortunately, it is that simple. Then, it gets down to what percentage of the population has $300-$400 to spend on one flashlight. That percentage is very, very small.

Once you go HDS, everything else looks like a compromise with no future resale value. With one or more HDS lights in hand, you will also need to purchase a thrower and a very small key chain pocket light. Unfortunately, Henry is not making these...yet.

 

[GoVegan]

Very good comparison right there my friend.

It would be if the numbers were correct. Unfortunately the runtimes that Mr. LED quoted are not up to date. Henry has neglected to update the chart in the FAQ.

Here are the correct ones in red:
[as per specs on each actual HDS product page]

-----
Take the HDS 250 lumen and the Zebralight SC64w in comparison. Both using 18650 @ ~3300mAh:

HDS @ 250 lumens - 3.5 hours 5:45 of tactical runtime (down to 50 lumens)
Zebralight SC64w @ 264 lumens - 6.3 hours


HDS @ 9.4 lumens - 91 hours not sure as not listed
Zebralight SC64w @ 8.5 lumens - 175 hours


Now let's compare CR123 runtimes:


HDS @ 250 lumens - 1.5 hours 2.0 hours (ANSI)
Zebralight SC32w @ 245 - 1.6 hours


HDS @ 9.4 lumens - 28 hours 30 hours (ANSI)
Zebralight SC32w @ 8.5 lumens - 70 hours
-----


Also bear in mind that with HDS as each light is individually calibrated the runtimes listed above are the bare minimum, usually you will get much more as per:

-----
Why do flashlight runtimes vary?

The efficiency of LEDs vary from one LED to the next. Therefore the amount of power it takes to generate the same amount of light will very from one LED to the next. We have chosen to hold the light output constant from one flashlight to the next. This results in constant light output but causes variations in runtimes from one flashlight to the next. We specify a minimum runtime at the rated light output. This results in a statistical distribution with the typical runtime being 10 to 15% higher than the minimum runtime.
-----

So based on the above runtimes and info it seems that the HDS lights are actually more efficient than Zebralights on the high end output.


Anyway my point wasn't to turn this into a HDS vs a Zebralight comparison, it was just to highlight the quality of technical excellence in the whitepaper and the advantages of a UI that enables you to instantly get to maximum thereby 'seeing' an equivalent as with an actual 1000 lumens.

As it stands I don't currently own any Zebralights as I have always been put off by their QC, their 1 year warranty and warranty has taken a couple of months for turnaround in some cases because they are really just a Chinese flashlight company with a US business address. That's not to say that I dislike the company, in fact I may end up getting one of their AA lights in the future, but I just wouldn't use it as my primary EDC light.

 

[Tejasandre]

I have a zebra headlight, & 2 HDS. THE Zebra is brighter & its a headlight... HDS is daily carry.

 

[twistedraven]

HDS are rather huge lights for what they are to be my EDC. Their single CR123 lights are as long as a Zebralight 18650 light. Zebralight's claim to fame is their combination of compactness, the efficiency of their boost-buck drivers, and the smoothness of their temperature regulation on higher outputs. I've never been a fan of hard stepdown, but the Zebralight implemented temp regulation and its slow ramp is hard to beat.

 

[wacbzz]

I wish this thread were in the Underground...

 

[Fireclaw18]

The fact of the matter is for $79 I can get a Zebralight SC64 of some flavour and have better output, better battery life, better driver efficiency, better regulation, and plenty of low modes to use on the trail in a light that's the same size as an HDS. There are plenty of situations where a high output with stepdown is extremely desirable, and there are plenty of modern lights that are technologically superior to HDS in many ways. Buy an HDS because you want an HDS and everything that goes into its design and production, not because you're pretending anything over 300 lumens is useless and all other EDC lights are poorly engineered.

This.

Why carry around a big bulky, expensive, and rather dated HDS when you could carry around a more advanced Zebralight that does almost everything better in a much more compact package. The only thing the HDS does better than a Zebra is durability, but most of us do not need a light that sacrifices everything for durability.

I also don't buy the argument in that HDS white paper. Sure, most flashlight use may be 300 lumens or less. But that said, I find it to be EXTREMELY helpful to have a light capable of outputting more lumens when I need it.

The white paper linked in the original post is 5 years old. Since then, HDS designs seem to have stagnated, with the old Rotary still their best EDC light. Meanwhile, the technology from other manufacturers has continued to advance. It's now quite possible to buy an EDC light smaller than a Rotary with 10x the output, running on a much larger 18650 cell for a fraction of the cost of an HDS (Emisar D4).

Sure, you can't run an Emisar at that power setting for long but I still find being able to blast out 3500 lumens of 95+CRI tremendously useful.

 

[Dirty wage guy]

There is nothing that has been in, or will be in a zebralight that is "technologically surperior" to an HDS rotary. I don't care if a ZL is brighter than my rotary. I have plenty of lights that are, but nothing compares to that rotary UI.
Sure, I'd love to see the lumens bumped up a little, say to 500, but 1000lm in a 1x123 light won't last that long. Nice to have that option if needed tho I guess, but hell, I'd probably take my HDS over a zebralight any day for the candle mode alone! Lol

 

[bigburly912]

The candle mode is the only thing o really miss. Nothing like drinking a few beers and turning the candle on after a long day haha.

 

[Dirty wage guy]

The candle mode is the only thing o really miss. Nothing like drinking a few beers and turning the candle on after a long day haha.

I know that's right brother! My ol'lady likes to chill with it on too when we break the wine out. So nice to have it right there next to the bed
Put some R. Kelly on and it's a wrap! Lol

 

[Johnnyh]

Anyway my point wasn't to turn this into a HDS vs a Zebralight comparison, it was just to highlight the quality of technical excellence in the whitepaper and the advantages of a UI that enables you to instantly get to maximum thereby 'seeing' an equivalent as with an actual 1000 lumens.

Again...thanks for the link to this thought-provoking article. I sort of anticipated it would generate discussion on the tactical/survival/ aspects of preserving night-vision or maybe how utilizing ones light sparingly could (or couldn't) bring about the results outlined in the paper...but a Zebralight vs. HDS "shootout" ? Never saw it coming!

 

[the0dore3524]

I agree that HDS lights are still ahead of the curve technology-wise. My HDS 140 from 2012 is still more than viable, and I've yet to find a superior clicky-based programmable flashlight.

As for design stagnation, I think that's somewhat inevitable given just how good the design of the Rotary already is. The Rotary is still the quintessential apex of functionality and convenience in terms of UIs. The Cool Fall Spy uses a similar UI, but that's in a whole another league.

Speaking candidly, I've never had a need for more output than my Rotary (200 lumens) could put out. I had an Emisar D4, which was a sweet light, but I couldn't fathom ever using the 3000 lumen setting in practical use, save showing off. Maybe my experience is just the result of my usage habits, but that's my 2 cents.

 

[desert.snake]

but I couldn't fathom ever using the 3000 lumen setting in practical use, save showing off

But how to warm your hands when they froze?


In my opinion, the zebra is too small, it is inconvenient to use, HDS for one 123 is also on the verge of being too small, the most optimal flashlight in size for me as an EDC is 13-15 cm long and ~ 3 cm in diameter. Here, both - Zebra and HDS are losing to so many other manufacturers.

 

[Mr. LED]

... because they are really just a Chinese flashlight company with a US business address.

It's been known that Zebralight is an American owned and operated company, which manufactures in China (like 99% of everything on the market). If otherwise this is not true, it's hard for us to know.

 

[Pinarello]

Yes, Zebralight vs. HDS???!!! KIA vs. Mercedes? C'mon, there are cheap Chinese lights at the fraction of price of Zebra, doing the same thing. So go for that.