thermal guy
Flashaholic
No side switch please. Impossible to find in the dark.
21700 Malkoff possibility
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INFRNL
Flashlight Enthusiast
I was just reading some of the first comments of this thread and that we don't need 21700... little benefit, etc
If I'm not mistaken, Tesla cars started with 18650, then 20700, now 21700... isn't this cpf...3mm isn't going to be that big of a deal and we gain a good 2000mah per cell. You only need a couple pr.
What's a new format going to do. We have already invested in 16340, 18350, 16650, 18650...one more isn't the end of the world.
Couple yrs ago before 21700 is what it is today, i bought a few 20700s (i think they are)... haven't been able to use them, lol. Unfortunately they are also unprotected...not sure what i was thinking.
Don't make me go buy a zebra 21700:naughty::devil:
If I'm not mistaken, Tesla cars started with 18650, then 20700, now 21700... isn't this cpf...3mm isn't going to be that big of a deal and we gain a good 2000mah per cell. You only need a couple pr.
What's a new format going to do. We have already invested in 16340, 18350, 16650, 18650...one more isn't the end of the world.
Couple yrs ago before 21700 is what it is today, i bought a few 20700s (i think they are)... haven't been able to use them, lol. Unfortunately they are also unprotected...not sure what i was thinking.
Don't make me go buy a zebra 21700:naughty::devil:
thermal guy
Flashaholic
I was curious as to what GENE though about going to a option of a larger batter size tube so sent him a quick email. He believes that at this time there's not enough Call for it right now😞 so we can keep dreaming but we're kinda on our own for now.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
Just transition to making 21mm bodies versus 18mm bodies.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
Probably a lot more involved then you think. Got to have all different setup. Different diameter tube so wall thickness can stay the same etc etc
Dave D
Flashlight Enthusiast
The larger bodies would also need larger tailcaps, but 18 people voting for them doesn't make a financial argument for changing anything.
I'd also like an anti-roll head but there wasn't enough interest in those either, although 33 people said they'd buy one or more.
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etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
An anti-roll head is another good idea.
There shouldn't be an issue making 21mm bodies designed to work with the older style Hound Dog / etc. heads?
Understood the point about the tailcap. Ultimately some kind of tailcap standard is necessary.
The old 18mm tube was created out of boring Surefire 6P and 9P bodies. Then the 18mm tubes became available from other makers. First FiveMega, Leef, etc. then Malkoff. You no longer had to bore Surefire lights. Then the issue of 123 compatibility became moot. My Hound Dog 18650 doesn't run well on 2x123, not on high. I have the 4x123 Hound Dogs as well and never ran primaries in them either, so backwards compatibility with 123 is a moot point.
Point is, 1x21mm or 2x21mm makes a lot of sense.
pay attention here:
Right now you already can buy 21mm lights from SOB (some other brand). If Malkoff does not come out with one soon, other makers will eat his lunch. You have to constantly innovate, stay with the market, or be left behind.
There are increasingly fewer reasons to buy 18mm lights.
Come to think of it, the only lights that make sense at this moment are 21mm bodied lights and also the ones that take only 123, for traveling. Like Surefire G2x Pro. (Yeah I know it can take 17670, but) When I travel, I don't care for recharging and dragging a charger or heavy rechargeable batteries with me, at times primary cells have their charm and convenience.
There shouldn't be an issue making 21mm bodies designed to work with the older style Hound Dog / etc. heads?
Understood the point about the tailcap. Ultimately some kind of tailcap standard is necessary.
The old 18mm tube was created out of boring Surefire 6P and 9P bodies. Then the 18mm tubes became available from other makers. First FiveMega, Leef, etc. then Malkoff. You no longer had to bore Surefire lights. Then the issue of 123 compatibility became moot. My Hound Dog 18650 doesn't run well on 2x123, not on high. I have the 4x123 Hound Dogs as well and never ran primaries in them either, so backwards compatibility with 123 is a moot point.
Point is, 1x21mm or 2x21mm makes a lot of sense.
pay attention here:
Right now you already can buy 21mm lights from SOB (some other brand). If Malkoff does not come out with one soon, other makers will eat his lunch. You have to constantly innovate, stay with the market, or be left behind.
There are increasingly fewer reasons to buy 18mm lights.
Come to think of it, the only lights that make sense at this moment are 21mm bodied lights and also the ones that take only 123, for traveling. Like Surefire G2x Pro. (Yeah I know it can take 17670, but) When I travel, I don't care for recharging and dragging a charger or heavy rechargeable batteries with me, at times primary cells have their charm and convenience.
scout24
Flashaholic
There are still plenty of reasons to buy 18650 lights. There's about two dozen here in my battery box. I still like the idea of an adapter a'la the Surefire E to C adapters to get from old design heads to new battery tubes. I think we've gotten spoiled with how quickly things get adopted, for good or bad. I don't see Some Other Brand eating Gene's lunch, either. Different markets... 😁
INFRNL
Flashlight Enthusiast
That's what the original plan was; to use an adapter but nothing ever came of it. Not enough interest i guess.
I agree 18650 suits me just fine but those that are all about runtime or just want something a little different will definitely benefit from a slightly larger body for 21mm cells.
I'd definitely buy a couple in MD2 and a couple in MD4. I'm hlf tempted to have someone like Martin D White make me some but i have a feeling cost would be much greater than if they came from Gene.
I agree 18650 suits me just fine but those that are all about runtime or just want something a little different will definitely benefit from a slightly larger body for 21mm cells.
I'd definitely buy a couple in MD2 and a couple in MD4. I'm hlf tempted to have someone like Martin D White make me some but i have a feeling cost would be much greater than if they came from Gene.
NotRegulated
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2004
- Messages
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Bodies from Malkoff to hold one or two 21700's would be welcome for the current HoundDog's and Super's especially.
These 21700 batteries are about the same diameter as the Streamlight Stinger battery which has been in use for decades. The Stinger is one of the most popular lights in the first responder community today.
A 2x21700 tube would just be a little longer in length than the HD4 or a current Stinger flashlight.
I would buy a couple.
These 21700 batteries are about the same diameter as the Streamlight Stinger battery which has been in use for decades. The Stinger is one of the most popular lights in the first responder community today.
A 2x21700 tube would just be a little longer in length than the HD4 or a current Stinger flashlight.
I would buy a couple.
md2 and md4 hosts compatible with 21700 batteries and compatible with existing heads would be most welcome.
thermal guy
Flashaholic
The reason I'm so onboard with a 21700 tube or better yet a double is that I will sometimes go into the woods or for a walk that may last 2-3 hours. That is if nothing goes wrong. I'm not woodswalker lol When I'm out in there I like a ton of light and this pushes any current Malkoff to the limit. Yes I can an do carry extra cells and lights for that matter but would still like a single light that can do this.
INFRNL
Flashlight Enthusiast
just grab all you big lights and mount them on your clothing...facing all directions and carry extra cells, LOL
I honestly don't think this is a big enough market for Gene to add it. I didn't get a chance to talk to him long enough today; so i don't know where he stands on it, but he is working on some changes. Will have to see what he comes up with this yr
I honestly don't think this is a big enough market for Gene to add it. I didn't get a chance to talk to him long enough today; so i don't know where he stands on it, but he is working on some changes. Will have to see what he comes up with this yr
I made another 21700 prototype host to fit my Malkoff heads. Actually two this time, one 1x 21700 and one 2x 21700. Still not properly threaded, they somehow pressfit to the heads, but work.
They were made from an 25 mm aluminum tube, thus are even a little bit slimmer than the 1" 18650 Malkoff bodies. With the internally threaded tailcap that I borrowed from a Maglite XL, the additional lenght of the 21700 host can also be compensated.
Although I would prefer a 28mm diameter body to give the tube 3mm thick walls. The other tailcap has 28mm and comes from one of these cheap Chinese 3xAAA zoomies that you can buy for 3 bucks or less (but it is well made, though, and a McClicky should easily fit in there).
I think Gene really could switch to 21700 bodies. They still can hold 18650 and primaries, so they are even more versatile then. You would loose a three cell setup, but with the limited choice of 18500 cells, that would not hurt too much.
They were made from an 25 mm aluminum tube, thus are even a little bit slimmer than the 1" 18650 Malkoff bodies. With the internally threaded tailcap that I borrowed from a Maglite XL, the additional lenght of the 21700 host can also be compensated.
Although I would prefer a 28mm diameter body to give the tube 3mm thick walls. The other tailcap has 28mm and comes from one of these cheap Chinese 3xAAA zoomies that you can buy for 3 bucks or less (but it is well made, though, and a McClicky should easily fit in there).
I think Gene really could switch to 21700 bodies. They still can hold 18650 and primaries, so they are even more versatile then. You would loose a three cell setup, but with the limited choice of 18500 cells, that would not hurt too much.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's just that there is no point to stay with 18mm cells. Might as well make the newer ones with larger capacity.
The bottleneck today is not lumens. It's the electro-chemical device called the battery, or the cell. That's the area that needs most improvement.
etc
Flashlight Enthusiast
As seen on the pics, the diameter increase is marginal. The 18mm cells are to tiny to hold, I put bicycle grip on them, like the 18650 Hound Dog doesn't make that much sense.
the capacity vs size increase trade off is worth it.
the capacity vs size increase trade off is worth it.
INFRNL
Flashlight Enthusiast
I can agree, but some said they didn't want another battery format to invest in.
I'm with you guys, I would love 21700 and know that the size difference would be minimal.
@tuelleric: great job. wish I had the tools to make my own.
since we are on the topic, what are the best 21700's to get? I haven't even paid too much attention to what's available. i think 21700 on the larger lights would be great, then we could use a sleeve if we wanted 18mm .
someone go call Gene and put in the order. now would be the time with the redesigning of the heads for HD/wildcat
I'm with you guys, I would love 21700 and know that the size difference would be minimal.
@tuelleric: great job. wish I had the tools to make my own.
since we are on the topic, what are the best 21700's to get? I haven't even paid too much attention to what's available. i think 21700 on the larger lights would be great, then we could use a sleeve if we wanted 18mm .
someone go call Gene and put in the order. now would be the time with the redesigning of the heads for HD/wildcat
Thanks. I still need to modify my lathe to machine threads to my prototypes. Actually, I wonder why none of the skilled cpf custom modders jumps on that train and offers a small batch of well made 21700 bodies.
I'd say Samsung 50E, LG M50T, or Keeppower 5000 mAh protected.
INFRNL
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks.
I know Martin D White will make them but i think they are costly. He is the US...somewhere towards the south IIRC. He does some custom work. I have asked him about other bodies in the past but wasn't ready for the price, so i held off. If Gene was to offer these; it would save us some money. Although I haven't realy looked into it or talked to anyone else really.
I'll look into it when I get closer to the change. I wouldn't want to invest too much into cells though; as I have a feeling there is more potential for them and they will be upgraded. As etc said we are at our limits on other cells.
I know Martin D White will make them but i think they are costly. He is the US...somewhere towards the south IIRC. He does some custom work. I have asked him about other bodies in the past but wasn't ready for the price, so i held off. If Gene was to offer these; it would save us some money. Although I haven't realy looked into it or talked to anyone else really.
I'll look into it when I get closer to the change. I wouldn't want to invest too much into cells though; as I have a feeling there is more potential for them and they will be upgraded. As etc said we are at our limits on other cells.
