P60 SST-90, lost the dome

JohnF

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
353
Lets just call it an $80 mistake on my part - my 5700k tint SST-90 drop in from a vendor here (who I have a number of drop in's from, and love) turned into a 'learning experience'. I was warned that the domes of the SST's were fragile, but I managed to drop it in the garage and in my stupidity used a large air compressor to blow the dust from the reflector and dome. The dome came flying off. OK, $80 down the drain, right?

Not exacty. It has turned from a flood into a spot! Originally it had the beautiful SST-90 huge flawless smooth hot spot with little transition to spill. Now, it has a hot spot 1/3 the size, but much brighter, and with far greater throw. It is as though it focuses tighter without the dome on the SST-90.

My throw measurement target is a large palm tree 210' feet away - all my flashlights, if powerfull enough, are aimed at this tree and compared to my 3D Maglite with Malkoff XPG drop in.

There is no doubt that the domeless P60 SST-90 drop in is now illuminating that palm at least twice as well as it was before.

I use a simple ceiling bounce test for total output, also measured against the Malkoff XPG, and photographed using always the same manual setting on my camera. Total output using this test looks identical to the domed SST-90.

I thought the dome was essential for properly directing light to the reflector, and up to 80% output was lost without the dome. Somehow, in this case, with the reflector used, it seems to be gathering all the light and actually focusing it more tightly than before. There are a few rings toward the outside of the beam that weren't there with dome, but not bad enough to notice outside.

So, how is this explained? I was ready to trash it, but now am quite happy with the way it performs, and will be keeping it.

John F
 

JohnF

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
353
No difference in tint yet, I'll put some time on it tonight and see.
 

Linger

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
1,437
Location
Kingston ON
Saabluster has a thread on re-worked domes, reports similar experiences.

With-out the air compressor that is. The way he tells the story, he intended to do it.
 

JohnF

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
353
Saabluster has a thread on re-worked domes, reports similar experiences.

With-out the air compressor that is. The way he tells the story, he intended to do it.

Funny, I just ordered a P60 'linger' 2x XPG from nailbender yesterday for a flood drop in now that this SST-90 has turned itself into a thrower. Any way to reduce the doughnut hole in the beam, since you are the genius behind it? Now, to find the thread you referenced...

John F
 

Linger

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
1,437
Location
Kingston ON
Here ya go!
LED encapsulation - I hope you'll consider contributing to this thread... there is little knowledge on domes, and if they have as large an impact as you wrote then there is a lot more knowledge to be gained
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/246857
If you have the ability, get out the details of your changed emitter and the improvements in the beam. Not a lot of people are going to willingly decapitate the -90, yours worked so you have rare access to information

and my dual xp-g
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/249039
I find the 34mm Fraen works very well. It gives a wide flood, and even increase towards the center of the beam, and a usable hotspot. It doesn't throw, per say, but does allow you to reach out and put the intensity where you want it. It combines into a very useful light.
Available here (iirc)
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/220940
 
Last edited:

ergotelis

Enlightened
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
734
Location
Greece/Hellas/Crete
So, we just found a nice way to dedome SST90!!! :D

Man i made a Maglite with that, at ~4amp i get more than 25000 lux. It is amazing!

To report also, tint is the same, warm, but i think i got a reduction in output, maybe due to the fact that my led was "raped" with high current and no proper heatsinking.
Enjoy your new led haha!
 

JohnF

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
353
Linger, thanks for your help. I posted the story in 'led encapsulation' - surprising how many have had similar results.

John F
 

JohnF

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
353
I think i have to try it with a sst50! It will become a crazy thrower!!!

I've got to think the reflector design will be the big factor in how a de-domed 90 or 50 will work. It just so happens that the smooth reflector that nailbender uses seems to work really well with the de-domed SST-90. 1/2 the hotspot size, much better throw. All bets are off with other reflectors or optics.

I've now got a couple hours on my de-domed SST-90 with no change in tint. Really, I couldn't be happier with how this 'disaster' turned out. Just so happens that after the de-dome and ready to throw it out, I experimented with an optic which caused the device to overheat and blow the 3 level driver. So, I'm now getting 3.2a at the tail instead of 2.5a, and no level except for bright - I think I'm now just running straight direct drive from the 26650, but think the 90 can handle it.

I've totally ruined the drop-in in some ways, but I kind of like it better than when it actually worked as designed.

Don't expect a 'monster thrower' unless you get lucky with your particular reflector. I personally wouldn't intentionally de-dome unless you've had a few beers first.

John F
 

ma_sha1

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
3,042
Location
CT, USA
I had a similar experience on a SSt-90 & I had posted into the LED Encapsulation thread a while back.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3174820&postcount=44

The SSt-50 & 90 should have similar throw when both driven to spec (5A & 9A respectively),
My recent SSR-50 driven at 5-6A was able to rival the throw of the legendary mag85 with similar sized hot spot.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481&page=2

I am even tempted to de-doom the SSR-50 intentionally, which I think will out-throw Mag85 quite a bit,
just don't have big enough balls to pull the trigger.:crackup: Plus, I think it'll make the hot spot too small & be less useful.
 
Last edited:

Sun

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
12
Location
McKinney Texas
John F; could you do a quick experiment. I am wondering if the tight pattern you have gotten since losing the dome is the same with or without the reflector. Apparently it is possible the way the sst-90 produces light it could focus light in one direction without a lens or reflector at all.

Thanks;
 

JohnF

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2005
Messages
353
John F; could you do a quick experiment. I am wondering if the tight pattern you have gotten since losing the dome is the same with or without the reflector. Apparently it is possible the way the sst-90 produces light it could focus light in one direction without a lens or reflector at all.

Thanks;

I can't imagine that being the case, but who knows? I've sent the drop in back to have the PWM driver replaced as I fried it while testing optics without reflector heatsinking after I blew off the dome. Should have it back in a week or three, the problem is I'll have no reference on light emission paterns with / without reflectors and with / without domes.

I may have the domeless SST-90 converted to a D36 pill since it showed promise of decent throw from the 26mm P60, which should only get better with the larger D36 reflector. I'm leaving it in the capable hands of the builder, he is the man...

Since I've been using the Linger P60 in the FM 26650 host, I've really got no use for any other flood type light, it is the bomb. So, the plan is using the domeless SST-90 in a D36 with either a LOP or smooth reflector, depending on if the epoxied 90 can be removed without further damage, or just replace the driver in the P60 drop in.

Like I say, I'm in no hurry now for flood after using the Linger , and am leaving it completely in the very capable hands of nailbender. He'll tell me what he thinks works best, and that is the way it'll be.
 

Sun

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
12
Location
McKinney Texas
Darn I am too late. Oh well. I'm trying to determine if you could make a thrower by removing the dome & the reflector. I read an article by the head scientist behind the photonic lattice & he said nano tubes in the lattice culminate the light to a degree. That would be great to have a mini thrower without the need for an optic.:cool:

Thanks
 

Wavelength

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
16
I would say you would almost certainly not get the throw you want by removing a dome Sun. What will happen is almost certainly the opposite (unless the LED has a unusually shaped dome); without the dome more light is sent to the sides, where the reflector can direct it forward into the hotspot. With the dome, some of this light would be focused forward only enough to miss the reflector entirely, but not truly straight forward.
 

Sun

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
12
Location
McKinney Texas
In typical led function this is known to be true. The design & the way light is produced by the photonic lattice is completely different than conventional leds.
 

Wavelength

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
16
I do not believe that the photonic lattice that is used for the phlatlights significantly alters their emission pattern. No light is produced within the lattice itself, and the lattice used in the phlatlight is very thin, serving only to help extract light from the semiconductor material of the die, where it would be absorbed.
I believe lens-like effects require a thicker and more complex crystal design, which are difficult to manufacture with visible-range bandpasses. If a good thrower could be made by simply removing the dome, that would be done already, as you would then have a thrower that is even more compact than any flooder; it would be a flashaholic's dream!
 
Top