79 year old man gets mugged no one helps

http://cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100426/100426_subway/20100426/?hub=CP24Home

I'm ashamed to be a Torontian.

I live by the mentality that the greatest evil is when good people do nothing.

The very least I would have done is press the emergency strip/button.


Its "Torontonian", and this is one of the reasons why when I turned 16 and acquired my licence I have never used the TTC, another reason is in the summer while taking the bus home from school about 15 years ago people on the subway and buses seem to think its ok not to take showers for a few days.
 
Last edited:
Don't feel too badly Tebore, it's the new mentality of a growing percentage in western culture. Populations in general fall further under the societal "enlightenment" called moral relativism and the debilitating mindset of an entitlement culture with progressive subservience for cradle-to-grave governmental nurturing.

This pathetic attitude can be rooted in several different categories including:

1)I'm to frightened to intervene. I've never "manned-up" to anything my whole life, so why start now for someone I don't know?

2)Isn't that someone else's job? Don't we pay the police to deal with such things? Where are they?

3)I don't want to get involved. My own life and business on my Iphone is more important that getting mixed up in the fray. Besides, I might get sued if something goes wrong.

4)What is wrong and right? (a new version of 'what it truth?') Gosh, is it really even wrong to mug? The attackers were probably just underprivileged or abused, in which case it's not as wrong. Or, what if they just need money for food. It's not really that black and white is it? Besides, the victim is really old and has pretty much outlived his usefulness to society in general. If the "pack of predators" doesn't kill him he'll be dying of disease soon anyway.

This problem isn't going to get better either. It's only going to continue to worsen as we become more "civilized" and indoctrinated into a new age of enlightenment thinking. For decades we've seen a trend in our civilization in which the youngest and oldest members of our society are sometimes thought of as less than human and where the long standing, hard line of good ethics has been purposefully blurred to the point of being indistinguishable.

It's only when you have populations with strong moral groundings and plentiful individual freedoms that people routinely do right thing. Not only does this positively persuade the actions of would be bystanders to do the right thing but it works at the very heart of the problem which reduces the number of people willing to unjustifyably harm others in the first place.

God help us.
 
Last edited:
I always step in and have a go. My wife has a nag at me afterwards but I see it as my duty as a citizen. The more people are willing to get involved, the less others are in causing trouble.
 

This one in particular made world headlines. Truely shameful.

Here in New Zealand we had someone die while trying to save another from attack, but bystanders certainly didn't ignore him. I hope we never reach that stage (no offence meant to any New Yorkers reading this as I suspect you're as disappointed in those who did nothing as I am).
 
What is the world coming to? Really... it's just messed up when you think about it.

daimleramg: I don't know what to say, but it's like you're saying I want to avoid this reality. You went with a "me me me" mentality. Sure there's some unpleasantness with taking public transit but getting mugged anywhere, being afraid all the time or having your fellow man turn a blind eye to anothers' suffering isn't right.

This "me first" mentality of the big city is the problem, probably a big reason why these "thugs" have the balls to grab an iPhone and run or mug someone broad day light.

If I were on that subway car I probably would have gave both of them a solid smack with an accounting text book which is in my bag most of the time. 5lbs of solid paper+ hardcover is probably enough for a concussion.
 
Last edited:
What is the world coming to? Really... it's just messed up when you think about it.

daimleramg: I don't know what to say, but it's like you're saying I want to avoid this reality. You went with a "me me me" mentality. Sure there's some unpleasantness with taking public transit but getting mugged anywhere, being afraid all the time or having your fellow man turn a blind eye to anothers' suffering isn't right.

This "me first" mentality of the big city is the problem, probably a big reason why these "thugs" have the balls to grab an iPhone and run or mug someone broad day light.

If I were on that subway car I probably would have gave both of them a solid smack with an accounting text book which is in my bag most of the time. 5lbs of solid paper+ hardcover is probably enough for a concussion.

Ofcourse I want to avoid this reality, if there are places you know that is not safe why would you want to go there? And for those passengers on the subway car, you don't know their situation. For all you know they are parents trying to get home to make dinner for their kids. Why would they put their own lives on the line and orphan their kids for a stranger. If Anderson Silva was on that train and did nothing then yes I can say he was wrong. How can you make judgement when you dont know their case? If I was being robbed at gun point and the only people around was a father holding his 2 kids would I want him to help? NO! I'd tell him to run. You talk like your some supreme sheepdog but in reality are you one of those? If you see five men with baseball bats beating up one man would you jump in the middle?
 
Last edited:
tebore said:
What is the world coming to? Really... it's just messed up when you think about it.

The world has always been this way, the occurrance does not only exist in the US. The instinct for self preservation overrules compassion and empathy and its not an uncommon role of instinct, just no one chooses to accept it because we choose to express our adherence and support for ethics when in fact when a scenario opens with an antagonist welding a weapon, heroism? what heroism? many instead choose to think that we are a perfect country and that people will always lend a hand for the collective good, which as a matter of fact when things are seen through economic eyes no one will choose to help with anything if no reward or gain can be persued.

As a good simitarian bystander, heres a couple things that would pass my mind:

If I conceal carry a pistol, and I tried to save the man's life from the assilant by firing at him, it becomes my burden to prove that the assilant had acted intentionally. If the women was scared out of her wits, it may be difficult to prove anything as a witness and may be easily swayed by the defendants attorney to include nonexisting details, thereby illustrating her own fallacy. Other bystanders would notice the sound of the shot sooner than spotting the assilant downrange, and may immediately regard it me as the murderer. If I tried to threaten him with the pistol, in a city I may have to approach him before he can see me, if he came at me, shortening the distance of my response time, limiting the time necessary for me to respond, the following occurs:

If I tried intervenion without a tool, I may become the victim. When the assilant was attacking her, he had a voluntary motive, he would have had an alternative choice to go with it. Confronting him to the point in which he feels threatened may be cornering the mouse, who then will attack the cat being no alternative choice available. The first victim [the man] may flee, a common instinctive reaction and fail to notify others that I may need help. Usually a plea would be heard by someone, mere action that is open to interpretation at best may attract a few people with video cameras thinking its an thrillng brawl.

If I hesitated to look, the assilant may regard me as a witness and follow me around, thereby endangering my household or neighbors as they become potential victims by proximity.

If I kept to myself, economically I have gained nothing, emotionally maybe a bit of guilt, physically, I am uninjured and I may never encounter the assilant again.

If the scenario was played out being the first victim as a family member, it would be somewhat different in logic, but I would not be surprised if the results hinted even a speck of consistency. Perhaps in a family situation the outcome may be more fortunate as moral and filial duty may overrule the notion to flee.

Its the world we've always lived in, love and kindness during peace, irrationality and ignorance during instability, there is no "utopia" to be found, anywhere...even in outer space:(
 
Last edited:
There's a really great reason to not get involved ( except to call the police if you happen to be carrying a cell phone ), namely that in many cases, you can't successfully intervene because the perps are either stronger than you, or better armed than you, or outnumber you, or perhaps all three. You will likely fail to prevent what is happening. Even worse, you might escalate the situation. End result is that what might have been just a mugging, and/or a beating, will turn into a double murder ( you and the original victim ). As much as everyone loves to Monday-morning quarterback things like this, there's often very little an average citizen can do. It takes a strong person trained in fighting to deal with many of these thugs. Often, even that, along with a weapon, isn't sufficient ( witness how many trained LEOs are cut down in the line of duty ). I will say though that not calling for help, either immediately if you can, or as soon as possible, is really inexcusable. Never go on the assumption that somebody already called for help. Someone's life may depend upon it.

Second point is to avoid getting trapped in these situations in the first place. I've ridden public transit my whole life, even back in the late 1970s when it really was a lot more dangerous than now. If a situation feels wrong, it probably is. If you see a person who doesn't appear "right", or maybe a group of youths who appear to be looking for trouble, quietly go in the other direction, but do it nonchalantly. Any sign of running or alarm, and you might as well have a bullseye painted on your back.

All that being said, I might consider intervening if the assailant didn't appear armed, and was small enough that I might stand a good chance against them in physical combat. In my case, a good kick from legs made strong by years of cycling might do the trick.
 
Even if for some reason you feel you are not obligated to help a person being attacked,

NO ONE has an excuse for walking past and ignoring the homeless man lying on the sidewalk in a pool of blood AFTER the attack. That's despicable.

:(
 
Ofcourse I want to avoid this reality, if there are places you know that is not safe why would you want to go there? And for those passengers on the subway car, you don't know their situation. For all you know they are parents trying to get home to make dinner for their kids. Why would they put their own lives on the line and orphan their kids for a stranger. If Anderson Silva was on that train and did nothing then yes I can say he was wrong. How can you make judgement when you dont know their case? If I was being robbed at gun point and the only people around was a father holding his 2 kids would I want him to help? NO! I'd tell him to run. You talk like your some supreme sheepdog but in reality are you one of those? If you see five men with baseball bats beating up one man would you jump in the middle?

One. The subway is rarely ever empty I take it daily at all hours depending on which day. On Saturday at 8:30PM the train should be packed with 20yr buff guys, it's clubbing hour or at least lounging hour for some predrinking. I'm not saying people should jump in and bash those guys brains in, help could be and is in this case pressing a button.

As for avoiding dangerous places, I'm not talking about walking down a dark alley full of drug dealers and rapists, it's the subway. Public transit a means of transportation for all citizens. It's brightly lit, cameras and people.

Would I jump in to a fight for a guy I don't know whose getting attacked by 5 guys with bats? No that's stupid. I'd call the police. Which I've done on many occasions, I've seriously seen enough fights on the streets at night. I've also called the cops for drunk drivers and people I've suspected of B&E.

I'm not talking about being Superman. 90% of US have cell phones but we'd rather use them to tweet about a guy getting beaten down and take pictures to post on Facebook than to call for help.

As for calling me a surpreme sheepdog, please I've lived this crap for 6 years from middle school to the end of high school. You learn that if you want to keep your fancy stuff you don't flash it in public. Thugs will hassle you, you avoid traveling alone and if you are alone you're gonna have to prepare to fight dirty. Like JTR said first thing you do is not to get yourself in to these situations but still sometimes crap just happens out of the blue.

You'd be surprised how many times a HEY WT* DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING?! causes these thugs to scatter. I've yelled it, they look around and run off.

Ilum: I don't know if the world was always like this, it seems as the days go by we get more desensitized in to avoiding what's not the norm. I mean some people don't even bother to call in traffic accidents. I know because my friends and I passed by this smashed up car once and there was no help what so ever and tonnes of cars passed by it we pulled over and called the police to investigate. We didn't get out of the car but we did the least a decent person would do at least call for help.
 
Top