Long RunTime
Enlightened
:welcome:
A new High CRI LED flashlight
- Thread starter Rob Brekelmans
- Start date
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AardvarkSagus
Flashlight Enthusiast
I warned you there would be MANY differing viewpoints here. Hopefully it won't be too overwhelming.
Do tell how that meeting went... We would love to hear more information about the possible direction this potential light may go. 50,000+ pieces is a tall order to fulfill however if you can claim to be the first full spectrum high CRI light to be mass produced I would definitely suspect it is doable.
I definitely encourage going after the medical market with this one, I think that is going to be a bigger audience. Dive lights would be a massive plus as well, though that subjects it to being a more niche market unless you decide to make it extremely pocketable for those of us who merely like "the best" in whatever. It definitely has use in outdoors ventures too, since accurate color rendition is a bonus on camping trips and also extremely useful around the camp kitchen when you find yourself grilling meat after dark.
Do tell how that meeting went... We would love to hear more information about the possible direction this potential light may go. 50,000+ pieces is a tall order to fulfill however if you can claim to be the first full spectrum high CRI light to be mass produced I would definitely suspect it is doable.
I definitely encourage going after the medical market with this one, I think that is going to be a bigger audience. Dive lights would be a massive plus as well, though that subjects it to being a more niche market unless you decide to make it extremely pocketable for those of us who merely like "the best" in whatever. It definitely has use in outdoors ventures too, since accurate color rendition is a bonus on camping trips and also extremely useful around the camp kitchen when you find yourself grilling meat after dark.
clg0159
Enlightened
I am partially color blind and this makes high CRI extremely important to me in all applications! With cool white light sources I almost see in shades of grey outdoors. Low CRI also negatively affects my depth perception. As you might imagine this is not a problem in daylight. It is nice to hear your first consideration going toward quality of light rather that quantity!
That said if I had a choice I would want a reliable light that is as efficient as possible. It should be affordable; as you mentioned most do not have the money to shell out 300 for a custom light. Focusability is another important feature.
Please keep us informed as your project progresses!
That said if I had a choice I would want a reliable light that is as efficient as possible. It should be affordable; as you mentioned most do not have the money to shell out 300 for a custom light. Focusability is another important feature.
Please keep us informed as your project progresses!
Gunner12
Flashaholic
Oh, low mode.
If you are planning a 2 mode light, make sure the low mode is 5-30% of high mode, I'd suggest 10-20%. That is enough for a very visible difference in output and still provide enough light for most uses.
There are a lot of opinions here to sort through, I'd love to see what you come up with.
If you are planning a 2 mode light, make sure the low mode is 5-30% of high mode, I'd suggest 10-20%. That is enough for a very visible difference in output and still provide enough light for most uses.
There are a lot of opinions here to sort through, I'd love to see what you come up with.
MrGman
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,777
Your not going to get all these great features into one model light. It would be great to have a modular light engine that could go into different model flashlights. Some with multimodes, AA batteries, Some with 1 or 2 modes only with CR123 batteries, A good overall beam. Some that would be a soft flood module and others that are real throwers by simply changing out reflectors or optics in front of the LED pill??? It has to be very reliable, and simple to use as others have said, but being able to drop the pill into different hosts with different accessories will certainly make it go far.
Gunner12
Flashaholic
Maybe you should sell a basic light that can also be used as a platform(not sure if that's the right term).
When the time is right or when you sold enough units, you can start adding more parts available to the light. For example, a new body tube, switch, head, and/or new lights with compatible threads and so on. Maybe even adapters for 1AAA to CR123 or so on.
When the time is right or when you sold enough units, you can start adding more parts available to the light. For example, a new body tube, switch, head, and/or new lights with compatible threads and so on. Maybe even adapters for 1AAA to CR123 or so on.
Sgt. LED
Flashaholic
4500K
3-9V tolerance
80-100L high
1L low
forward clicky
waterproof
UCL lens
floody
FLAT REGULATION
:welcome:
3-9V tolerance
80-100L high
1L low
forward clicky
waterproof
UCL lens
floody
FLAT REGULATION
:welcome:
Am I the only one who just can't see the demand for a mass-produced, high-CRI light? Sure, there will always be a need for them, but like now it'll be limited to specialized markets (medical etc) served by custom light makers. Also, incans have a high CRI, are cheap, and will not go away any time soon.
Why no huge demand? Most folks don't see the need. They can see with regular LEDs and make out colors just fine. Witness the explosion (pardon the pun) of CFLs for household use, most of which have CRIs hovering around the 80 mark. You can buy high-CRI CFL bulbs (95+) but they're expensive and barely anyone outside "color sensitive" professions knows about them or cares.
I'm sure a high-CRI light will be snapped up by CPF folks, but we're hardly a mass market :mecry:
Am I missing something obvious here?
Why no huge demand? Most folks don't see the need. They can see with regular LEDs and make out colors just fine. Witness the explosion (pardon the pun) of CFLs for household use, most of which have CRIs hovering around the 80 mark. You can buy high-CRI CFL bulbs (95+) but they're expensive and barely anyone outside "color sensitive" professions knows about them or cares.
I'm sure a high-CRI light will be snapped up by CPF folks, but we're hardly a mass market :mecry:
Am I missing something obvious here?
Sgt. LED
Flashaholic
No you're probably right but I'm self serving as much as I can be in this hobby so if this fella can give me a light that is designed to be high CRI from the ground up you better believe I am going to encourage him!
My personal suggestions/priorities:
-Multi-level output, perhaps a twist switch for high and a programmable low like the Nitecore or Jetbeam M models. If you are after dive usability, you'll need to come up with a non-twist mechanism for setting the level.
-Smooth beam. Liteflux LF5XT or Nitecore D10 Golden Dragon Plus version (not the EX10, though) are good examples of this. The beam is not devoid of a hotspot, however it has a nice transition. If you want to allow for photographic use, sell it with a Surefire style over the bezel diffuser.
-Batteries: stay away from exotic battery technology (such as CR123A) if you intend to sell in the fairly large non-US market. Too much $$$ to run and many headaches to export and sell. AA torches will have a larger market share than CR123A. 18650 does not have good market saturation yet, despite being a nice capacity and size. If you sell an 18650 torch and want to have it sell well (50K units/year) you will need to have it be a package deal including charger and batteries. This will result in needing certifications in most countries of sale, reducing profit and market share. Fenix TK20 is a good example torch for what can be done with 2xAA.
Non-exotic batteries will also be significantly easier for owners of your product to transport, specifically when it comes to air travel.
-Rechargeable compatibility: Make sure that you account for the differing voltage range of NiMH over Alkaline, or Li-ion over Lithium Primariy if you design a light that supports user replaceable batteries. This has been a reason for why Surefire lights do not well well outside of the USA, where the primary batteries are not as easily attained.
If you manufacture a light that has a built in, non-user replaceable rechargeable battery, keep in mind that the charger for the battery will likely needs its own certification in most countries of sale.
-Build material: Obviously intended use with dictate construction materials. If you want to sell it for optional use as a dive light, you'll need to be a polymer or non-reactive metal construction. The polymer may have heat dissipation issues if used out of the water, so titanium would likely be a better choice in that case. I'm not certain if you can build an aluminium torch with a replaceable reactive anode or not, but it may be worth investigating. Also, titanium would not be neutrally buoyant.
-Durability: SS bezel and tail cap rings are a nice design feature that help protect less hard metals from drops, and they do not cost that much to implement. A good sample implementation is the Jetbeam Jet-III M.
Keep in mind that a crenulated bezel can attract too much negative attention while not necessarily adding much functionality. A slight crenulation can allow you to see if the light has been left on when head standing, without drawing negative attention to the light at an airport.
-Throw: How much throw are you after? Optics have their place, however they dramatically limit usability. Larger reflectors impact on design considerations. Generally speaking, focusing heads introduce more problems than they solve.
-Price point: I'd pay up to about $200 USD for a TK20 sized aluminium high CRI torch with the above features, or about $300 USD if made from Titanium. However, I suspect that 50K consumers per year might not spend that much. $50-100 USD might be a more realistic target price, if this can be achieved. If the light has a special purpose target audience, pricing will vary with the expense of the activity in question (ie, caving or diving.
If you have not already done so and happen to speak German, I'd recommend that you also post over on messerforum.net as they have a decent number of high-end torch owners who I know would have some good input as well.
Best of luck!
-Multi-level output, perhaps a twist switch for high and a programmable low like the Nitecore or Jetbeam M models. If you are after dive usability, you'll need to come up with a non-twist mechanism for setting the level.
-Smooth beam. Liteflux LF5XT or Nitecore D10 Golden Dragon Plus version (not the EX10, though) are good examples of this. The beam is not devoid of a hotspot, however it has a nice transition. If you want to allow for photographic use, sell it with a Surefire style over the bezel diffuser.
-Batteries: stay away from exotic battery technology (such as CR123A) if you intend to sell in the fairly large non-US market. Too much $$$ to run and many headaches to export and sell. AA torches will have a larger market share than CR123A. 18650 does not have good market saturation yet, despite being a nice capacity and size. If you sell an 18650 torch and want to have it sell well (50K units/year) you will need to have it be a package deal including charger and batteries. This will result in needing certifications in most countries of sale, reducing profit and market share. Fenix TK20 is a good example torch for what can be done with 2xAA.
Non-exotic batteries will also be significantly easier for owners of your product to transport, specifically when it comes to air travel.
-Rechargeable compatibility: Make sure that you account for the differing voltage range of NiMH over Alkaline, or Li-ion over Lithium Primariy if you design a light that supports user replaceable batteries. This has been a reason for why Surefire lights do not well well outside of the USA, where the primary batteries are not as easily attained.
If you manufacture a light that has a built in, non-user replaceable rechargeable battery, keep in mind that the charger for the battery will likely needs its own certification in most countries of sale.
-Build material: Obviously intended use with dictate construction materials. If you want to sell it for optional use as a dive light, you'll need to be a polymer or non-reactive metal construction. The polymer may have heat dissipation issues if used out of the water, so titanium would likely be a better choice in that case. I'm not certain if you can build an aluminium torch with a replaceable reactive anode or not, but it may be worth investigating. Also, titanium would not be neutrally buoyant.
-Durability: SS bezel and tail cap rings are a nice design feature that help protect less hard metals from drops, and they do not cost that much to implement. A good sample implementation is the Jetbeam Jet-III M.
Keep in mind that a crenulated bezel can attract too much negative attention while not necessarily adding much functionality. A slight crenulation can allow you to see if the light has been left on when head standing, without drawing negative attention to the light at an airport.
-Throw: How much throw are you after? Optics have their place, however they dramatically limit usability. Larger reflectors impact on design considerations. Generally speaking, focusing heads introduce more problems than they solve.
-Price point: I'd pay up to about $200 USD for a TK20 sized aluminium high CRI torch with the above features, or about $300 USD if made from Titanium. However, I suspect that 50K consumers per year might not spend that much. $50-100 USD might be a more realistic target price, if this can be achieved. If the light has a special purpose target audience, pricing will vary with the expense of the activity in question (ie, caving or diving.
If you have not already done so and happen to speak German, I'd recommend that you also post over on messerforum.net as they have a decent number of high-end torch owners who I know would have some good input as well.
Best of luck!
Rob Brekelmans
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2009
- Messages
- 3
Hello everyone,
The meeting went well. My concept is approved but... I need to focus on my subject. I got a little overexcited when I saw that there wasn't a mass High CRI flashlight on the market. Still, now there are more people aware of this gap in the market.
This light is going to have a special purpose in the OR. But you may not call it flashlight because a doctor is not going to use something that looks like a normal flashlight.
The idea of making the product modular didn't get approval either. Maybe they're going to use the idea high CRI in the form of a new assignment. That's up to the marketing department.
The light has to be low lumen (50),high CRI (93), rechargeable, chemical resistant, waterproof with a wide beam. I'm not sure yet if the light output got to be adjustable. The product still stays a while in concept mode. First some prototypes, some more improvements and than maybe a first step towards the production.
I AM going to use some of your input however.
Thank you all for your opinions.
Rob
The meeting went well. My concept is approved but... I need to focus on my subject. I got a little overexcited when I saw that there wasn't a mass High CRI flashlight on the market. Still, now there are more people aware of this gap in the market.
This light is going to have a special purpose in the OR. But you may not call it flashlight because a doctor is not going to use something that looks like a normal flashlight.
The idea of making the product modular didn't get approval either. Maybe they're going to use the idea high CRI in the form of a new assignment. That's up to the marketing department.
The light has to be low lumen (50),high CRI (93), rechargeable, chemical resistant, waterproof with a wide beam. I'm not sure yet if the light output got to be adjustable. The product still stays a while in concept mode. First some prototypes, some more improvements and than maybe a first step towards the production.
I AM going to use some of your input however.
Thank you all for your opinions.
Rob
AardvarkSagus
Flashlight Enthusiast
Bummer about the denial. We here would have loved to see such an animal. It sounds though like something short run could still be produced. Will we at all get a chance at it, if it is?
May I suggest that if you are going for medical OR use that you also consider dental? I would think that there would be such a market, especially as we approach restrictions in some countries on the usage of high output incandescent type lights.
My main requests would be High and Low (for really long runtime) and preferrably an adjustable beam. Good quality light of course. Also, simple two to three modes and that's it. All the 5-10 different modes with all kinds of fancy bullshit sucks for me 'cause I'm too stupid to use them and I now have TWO $100 flashlights that I don't use 
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