Best illegal lights (relax- not for street-for night racing)

[Ritter v3.4]

I posted in another thread but got no response so thought I'd try again here.

I need maximum output for a 6 hr nightrace at Sebring.
I have a 1999 Porsche 911 with standard H7 lights housings (not Litronics unfortunately). It is track only but retains the aftermarket HID lights and ballasts that the p/o installed.

Up until now the lights have only been on for the odd race run in rain but now I need to get serious- so I'd like to upgrade the headlights and add outboard driving lights as necessary.

I'm thinking first I'd rewire with 10 gauge and make sure the relays are up to the task. I can't afford a failure. Then I was thinking I'd go back to H7 bulbs (Osram Rallye 65w?) and use one LHD and one RHD to maximize center throw.

Then I'd like to avoid adding much weight and the drag of bigger driving lamps (like Hella 4000s or even the Compacts) so was thinking of a pair of good Lexus type HID projectors mounted lower down in one of the rad intake. I believe that's what the Flying Lizards do. I'd post a pic if the Mods would let me.

Lets say budget is $1,000 (everything done to a P-car is at least one grand :shrug: ) - what would you do?

 

[Alaric Darconville]

what would you do?

I would not make any illegal modifications to the lighting; despite the claim that it is "for off road use". Also, I'd make sure the car conforms to PCA regulations for the class you're in, should you be racing in a PCA-sanctioned event.

It is a wise move to get rid of those HID kits and put in these. Installing quality relays and sockets is also a very good idea. 10 gauge wire might be overkill, though. 12ga would be fine.

and use one LHD and one RHD to maximize center throw.

You mean one RHT and one LHT lamp? Lamps aren't described by the position of the driver on the car, rather the position of the car on the road.

Avoid "KC" and Lightforce (what we call "Lightfarce") products for the auxiliary high beam lamps. Per this post, a pair of Cibie Oscar Super Compe complex-reflector lamps (one wide beam and one long beam) might be just what you're looking for. Read the rest of that post for bulb and wiring recommendations).

 

[Ritter v3.4]

I would not make any illegal modifications to the lighting; despite the claim that it is "for off road use". Also, I'd make sure the car conforms to PCA regulations for the class you're in, should you be racing in a PCA-sanctioned event.

It is a wise move to get rid of those HID kits and put in these. Installing quality relays and sockets is also a very good idea. 10 gauge wire might be overkill, though. 12ga would be fine.


You mean one RHT and one LHT lamp? Lamps aren't described by the position of the driver on the car, rather the position of the car on the road.

Avoid "KC" and Lightforce (what we call "Lightfarce") products for the auxiliary high beam lamps. Per this post, a pair of Cibie Oscar Super Compe complex-reflector lamps (one wide beam and one long beam) might be just what you're looking for. Read the rest of that post for bulb and wiring recommendations).

If I could post a photograph you would see that the car is not remotely street legal for a vast number of reasons- illegal light mods would be the least of my concerns.

That aside I don't race PCA (but am a PCA Instructor) but race with PBOC in R3 and NASA in GTS3. I'll go back and re-read them but here are no regulations as far as lighting is concerned to my recollection.

Back in the 80's I had a BMW race car with twin Oscar driving lamps and and single Super Oscar with pencil beam (all with 100w Osram bulbs) much as you've suggested and it worked great but that was 20 years ago- I was hoping for a more elegant and less obtrusive solution. Maybe there isn't one but I'll ask around at the Petit Lemans this w/e.

Thanks for confirming the return to H7 Osrams and beefing up the wiring.

 

[-Virgil-]

I'd use one RHT and one LHT lamp, but I'd set them up opposite to how you seem to have in mind. I'd put the RHT lamp on the right and the LHT lamp on the left. That way I'd have ample light heading into left and right turns. Set the aim higher than street spec, I'd say 0.5% declination (that's 0.28°, cutoff 1½" below optical center height at 25 feet on level ground). For reference, street spec is 0.7% in USA (0.4°, cutoff 2.1" drop at 25') and 1% in Europe (0.573°, cutoff 3" drop).

 

[jason 77]

I would think that a pair of HID lights placed low down on the front of the car would be a good idea if done properly. I've heard that the projectors from a Honda S2000 are the more popular choice. There are a few websites that sell them for about $380 a pair. Come up with some weather resistant adjustable housing and it should work just fine?

 

[Kingslasher]

Try a ddmtuning.com 55 watt HID kit for $45.00. The Ford Lightning community loves them.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Try a ddmtuning.com 55 watt HID kit for $45.00. The Ford Lightning community loves them.

No, thank you. HID kits installed in lamps designed for filament bulbs are unsafe and ineffective. Had you read the thread, you'd see that the OP has accepted the advice to return to a filament bulb and upgrade the wiring.

The HID kit may appear to throw out a lot of light, but it will not be directed in the right places and would be counterproductive. This would be true whether or not his car shares the road with other vehicles; my advice is not a point of "legality" or "not blinding other drivers", it's a point of "using what will help him see best".

The Ford Lightning community could stand to learn alot about vehicle lighting.

 

[Ritter v3.4]

I'd use one RHT and one LHT lamp, but I'd set them up opposite to how you seem to have in mind. I'd put the RHT lamp on the right and the LHT lamp on the left. That way I'd have ample light heading into left and right turns. Set the aim higher than street spec, I'd say 0.5% declination (that's 0.28°, cutoff 1½" below optical center height at 25 feet on level ground). For reference, street spec is 0.7% in USA (0.4°, cutoff 2.1" drop at 25') and 1% in Europe (0.573°, cutoff 3" drop).

I wondered about this and reasoned that the headlights being higher up are better positioned for down the road illumination- there are couple of straights that are approx. 4k ft with high closing speeds.

If I go with a pair of HIDs lower down, I could toe them out slightly to cover closer/ side vision?

 

[Alaric Darconville]

If I go with a pair of HIDs lower down, I could toe them out slightly to cover closer/ side vision?

If they're too low, they'll potentially fill your near-field vision with a flood of excess light, detracting from your ability to see farther down the road. It may give the subjective impression of seeing better with all that light right in front of you, but that's just a false sense of security.

 

[John_Galt]

Could the cutoff be modified to limit near-field illumination, while still maintaining distance illumination? IE: put a narrow band of light reducing filter material (ie: window tinting, etc) above the beam cutoff. This would reduce the amount of light passing through the lens, ad thus onto the foreground.


That would, I would guess, allow for a set of projectors to be mounted in an unobtrusive place, at a relatively low height, while still allowing for effective use of the available light.

 

[Ritter v3.4]

If they're too low, they'll potentially fill your near-field vision with a flood of excess light, detracting from your ability to see farther down the road. It may give the subjective impression of seeing better with all that light right in front of you, but that's just a false sense of security.

So I could mount them not quite so low. I still can't post pics ( I thought that one could after 2 posts?), but if I could, Flying Lizard Porsches have what appear to be a pair of HID lights mounted in the bumper.

 

[John_Galt]

Are you using an image hosting service? Or just trying to upload them from your computer? The latter doesn't work.

 

[Ritter v3.4]

Are you using an image hosting service? Or just trying to upload them from your computer? The latter doesn't work.

Well it says below under posting rules I may NOT post attachments. I thought it was because I was a rookie. You mean no one can upload a jpg from their computer?? That's kinda bizarre. I thought sharing was caring :sigh:

 

[John_Galt]

Photo's from an image hosting site, ie: Photobucket, can be uploaded. Otherwise, they cannot.

Set up an account at any of the free photo hosting sites, upload and resize your pictures. There should be a page about "sharing" your photo's. These usually have the image code which can be copy-pasted into a post, and the image can be seen.

 

[Kingslasher]

No, thank you. HID kits installed in lamps designed for filament bulbs are unsafe and ineffective.

Bull. They aren't unsafe or ineffective in an off road race. The OP was asking for illegal lights to upgrade his existing HIDs. The 55 watt HIDs I suggested will light up the world for him, and at 45 bucks are very reasonably priced.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Bull. They aren't unsafe or ineffective in an off road race. The OP was asking for illegal lights to upgrade his existing HIDs. The 55 watt HIDs I suggested will light up the world for him, and at 45 bucks are very reasonably priced.

They will have bad beam patterns which will be detrimental, such as producing too much foreground light.

Also, at $45.00, I wouldn't be surprised if that cheap crap were to fail on him in a bad way when he needs light the most. If he wanted to race super cheap with a vehicle he can't count on, he probably wouldn't have a Porsche to begin with.

 

[Kingslasher]

I've seen several beamshot comparisons on the L forums and they do not have "bad beam patterns". No doughnut holes in these babies. They are too bright for street use in my opinion, but would be perfect for off road racing. They seem to be very reliable too, with a lifetime guarantee. I think they pull fewer amps than the standard halogens, but perhaps that was the 35 watt version.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I've seen several beamshot comparisons on the L forums and they do not have "bad beam patterns".

"Beamshots"- not an isoplot. Not valid.

They are too bright for street use in my opinion, but would be perfect for off road racing.

Conjecture. Also, it ignores that an arc produces a vastly different beam pattern from a filament bulb, therefore the optics must be designed for an arc to use it properly.

They seem to be very reliable too, with a lifetime guarantee.

"Seem" -- there are plenty of forum posts with them having had to honor that guarantee. Also, the guarantee really doesn't mean anything when it's a critical piece of vehicle safety equipment that fails at the worst time.

I think they pull fewer amps than the standard halogens, but perhaps that was the 35 watt version.

The 35W ones would use less current than 55W halogen bulbs, but due to losses in the ballasts (even if "digital", which is just a marketing ploy) the 55W ones would draw more current than a halogen bulb (disregarding inrush current on a cold filament).

 

[Minjin]

"Beamshots"- not an isoplot. Not valid.


Conjecture. Also, it ignores that an arc produces a vastly different beam pattern from a filament bulb, therefore the optics must be designed for an arc to use it properly.

"Seem" -- there are plenty of forum posts with them having had to honor that guarantee. Also, the guarantee really doesn't mean anything when it's a critical piece of vehicle safety equipment that fails at the worst time.


The 35W ones would use less current than 55W halogen bulbs, but due to losses in the ballasts (even if "digital", which is just a marketing ploy) the 55W ones would draw more current than a halogen bulb (disregarding inrush current on a cold filament).

How about toning down the attitude a little bit?

To the OP, why reinvent the wheel? I know you say you don't like large lights but that's what gets the job done better than anything else. Just look at rally cars. There's a reason why they run 6 or more Hella 4000 HIDs even with the huge budgets that they have. I wouldn't be surprised if you can even buy a premade light pod for your car that they would fit in. Do they cost some bucks? Sure, but I'm sure that $1000 is just a very loose guideline for someone who can afford to throw away a 996.

I don't think you're going to be happy with the smaller lights. They just won't get the job done.

 

[John_Galt]

I don't see an attitude, I see genuine concern for the guys safety. If he were to use a PnP HID kit, and it were to fail on him during a race, it couldput his life at risk. Not something to risk.

Therefore, he has agreed it would be best to revert to good quality incandescents.
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HID projectors should be effective at producing a lot of light, in a controlled manner, while still remaining compact and unobtrusive.