Cars, Man

idleprocess

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The problem with home charging is that you have to remember each day to plug it in.
[...]
Another issue, sometimes the car just won't charge up.
ICE vehicles have similar problems, albeit "won't charge" is instead "won't start". But ICE vehicles are old hat as is excuses about failing to refuel or maintain them; so too will be forgetting to charge them or random failures to start/charge.

Much like how the transition from flip phones to smart phones taught the userbase some painful lessons about the need to recharge every night, new EV drivers may well have the embarrassment of forgetting to charge them at a critical juncture.

But as of right now, not even remotely close to competing with the sheer number of gas stations out there.
[...]
Those charging stations absolutely need actual fast chargers.
[...]
America needs charging stations as plentiful as gas stations are now.
"Slow" L2 charging at home - or for some at work - is how a strong majority of EV owners are powering their vehicles today, full stop:
The answer was clear: despite the installation of extensive public charging infrastructure in most of the project areas, the majority of charging was done at home and work. About half the project participants charged at home almost exclusively. Of those who charged away from home, the vast majority favored three or fewer away-from-home charging locations, and one or more of these locations was at work for some drivers.
'The infrastructure' is ready as soon as you have a 14-50 outlet and EVSE installed. Park the car, plug it in, done - and can schedule it to start charging in the middle of the night when power is cheaper since you're not going to routinely need a full charge.

Thus the use case for fast charging will be road trips and contingency usage when running extended errands. Thus we'll need them, but not at parity with gasoline pumps.

Get an up to 80% charge at best, and hope that the particular one you pulled up will even charge at all. I'm sorry, that's not good enough.
Given that pretty much every EV on the market has route planning that's aware of the availability - and usually status - of charging stations along the way it's rather difficult to stuff up a road trip.

People will never embrace a new way of doing something, on a mass scale, if it's significantly less convenient than the old way of doing things that they are used to.
Park vehicle at home, plug it in, and never worry about having to make a trip just to get fuel ever again - seems pretty convenient to me. And with 800V architectures coming into play that 30 minutes to 80% is less than 20 minutes at a 350kW CCS charger.

My question is: Even given the affordable Model T, how long would have been required for the automobile to effectively completely replace the horse for personal transportation if 1/3 of the population had been completely unable to utilize them?
While not quite the question you're asking - and I have no idea why you're asking it of me - according to Scientific American it took one decade for the automobile to replace horses as the 'standard' from of transportation.

My answer is: Don't start capping off any oil wells just yet y'all. Without a place to plug it in, there IS no option, and that shouldn't be expected to change for that 1/3 any time soon - supply constraints and other factors aside. All's well and fine for the other 2/3 if they choose to go that route, but gasoline stations aren't going anywhere in my lifetime, nor likely that of people born today!
I find this even more confusing. I'm not advocating policy positions in the bit you quoted - simply pointing out that the average home has the capacity to support an L2 charger that will provide more than enough power over a reasonable interval to recharge a vehicle for the typical person's daily travels.

I do find the argument that the infrastructure isn't ready hinges on the assumption that drivers treat EVs like ICE vehicles - drive by the filling station to refill the electricity tank - which as noted in the Idaho National Laboratory publication above isn't the case. I've also noted that EV uptake will be slower than .gov press releases, policies, regulations, and legislation would like due to production bottlenecks.

I've also gone to some lengths to mention that there are roles EVs simply cannot slot into. Driving long distances for a living will be a problem - even with DC fast chargers. Freight - or the proverbial horse trailer - over long distances will be an even greater problem. There might be solutions to these issues in the future, but they're far enough away and sufficiently uncertain that they can't be planned on just yet.
 

aznsx

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While not quite the question you're asking - and I have no idea why you're asking it of me - according to Scientific American it took one decade for the automobile to replace horses as the 'standard' from of transportation.
Sorry, as I lack good skills (and great experience, as evident from my post count) using this system, and I clearly caused myself to be misunderstood. I will attempt to rectify that.

The portion of your post which I quoted was for the SOLE purpose of using the "2/3" figure you referenced, and then speak to the position of the remaining 1/3, of which I am personally a part (and you likely are not). I only intended to reference your number, and should have made that clear. I posed what was intended to be an open rhetorical question (not posed to you personally at all), then provided my own response to that question (with no other intended implications to anything else you stated, and in fact without actually even answering it myself, but only expanding on the impact [or lack thereof] of all this on that '1/3' of the population). Evidently I should have just quoted the portion referencing the '2/3' number anonymously, but since you provided that number, I wanted to use it and didn't think that would be polite (nor could I verify the accuracy of the number myself).

Nothing I was trying to convey related in any other way to any of your other statements, nor was I expressing disagreement with anything you stated. My ONLY intended point was (and is) that for my '1/3' of the population, the lack of charging capability at our residence, which is not likely to change significantly anytime soon, IS a major impediment to penetration of EVs into the general population / marketplace, and thus will delay the demise of fossil fuel personal transportation far beyond what those who are proponents of its demise realize, and far beyond the time required for the car to 'replace' the horse.

Hope that clarifies my post, and please advise if it fails to do so, and hopefully my skills using this system will improve!:)
 

idleprocess

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Sorry, as I lack good skills (and great experience, as evident from my post count) using this system, and I clearly caused myself to be misunderstood. I will attempt to rectify that.

The portion of your post which I quoted was for the SOLE purpose of using the "2/3" figure you referenced, and then speak to the position of the remaining 1/3, of which I am personally a part (and you likely are not). I only intended to reference your number, and should have made that clear. I posed what was intended to be an open rhetorical question (not posed to you personally at all), then provided my own response to that question (with no other intended implications to anything else you stated, and in fact without actually even answering it myself, but only expanding on the impact [or lack thereof] of all this on that '1/3' of the population). Evidently I should have just quoted the portion referencing the '2/3' number anonymously, but since you provided that number, I wanted to use it and didn't think that would be polite (nor could I verify the accuracy of the number myself).

And I might have been moving too quickly responding to multiple posts.

Insofar as my two thirds estimate, the Census speaks to this - albeit indirectly - under the housing section with 64.4% living in owner-occupied housing units. Some of this will break down to condos without private off-street parking, but no small slice of rentals are single-family detached homes with private off-street parking so two thirds is a reasonable approximation.

I can't speak to every situation for the proverbial "other third" of the population, but here are some that are outside of my general "two thirds" assumption:
  • Apartment residents
    • With off-street parking : I see tentative steps to address this being made by landlords in the DFW area who are installing small numbers of L2 chargers (generally 6-10kW) on their properties. I imagine that over time these deployments will expand to include some number of chargers in private spaces that residents can rent and/or 14-50 outlets in resident garages so they can plug in their own EVSE (EV charger)
    • Without off-street parking : This is the tougher nut to crack. Presently this demographic uses fast charging or plays pot luck with any L2 charging within tolerable walking distance of their home or work. Better/more widespread public L2 charging infrastructure is apt to be the solution, but the pricing has to be reasonable.
  • House renters : Assuming these have almost-universal off-street private parking and intend to stay in the house for long enough, make arrangements with the landlord to install a 14-50 outlet and supply one's own EVSE
  • Rural residents
    • Non-Agricultural : People like my parents - who live ~10 miles from the closest town, ~20 miles from the closest small city, ~60 miles from the regional population center - and do not have to perform any of the hauling associated with agriculture could easily opt for an EV if they chose. They'll make more demands of the ~200 mile range that's fairly standard nowadays and will may choose to use public charging during treks to population centers 50 miles away where 30 minutes on even an L2 charger can add some useful range buffer. This is of course going to be distance-sensitive as well as depending on the availability of public charging in adjacent towns and cities.
    • Agricultural : This is a very tough nut to crack. EVs are not going to be a good fit for someone that has to transport the considerable mass livestock or feed long distances on the highway. But it's also a small slice of the population with 10.3% employed in agriculture, a very large percentage of which will be employees who commute to work rather than our prototypical image of the small farmer/rancher living an hour or more from a population center who must haul livestock trailers across the state. I expect that the ICE will continue for this group for decades to come.
There might be some other situations that I've missed - feel free to chime in.

Nothing I was trying to convey related in any other way to any of your other statements, nor was I expressing disagreement with anything you stated. My ONLY intended point was (and is) that for my '1/3' of the population, the lack of charging capability at our residence, which is not likely to change significantly anytime soon, IS a major impediment to penetration of EVs into the general population / marketplace, and thus will delay the demise of fossil fuel personal transportation far beyond what those who are proponents of its demise realize, and far beyond the time required for the car to 'replace' the horse.
What obstacle(s) to EV charging do you see that I've not mentioned?

Also realize that the '2/3 demographic' I mention is more market than the automakers can address for the next ~decade due to supply bottlenecks. The low-hanging fruit is and will remain the '2/3 demographic' for some time. Mandates, phaseouts, tax policy will crash against this reality; the ICE will remain ubiquitous for some time to come.

(edit: formatting)
 
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Monocrom

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ICE vehicles have similar problems, albeit "won't charge" is instead "won't start". But ICE vehicles are old hat as is excuses about failing to refuel or maintain them; so too will be forgetting to charge them or random failures to start/charge.

Much like how the transition from flip phones to smart phones taught the userbase some painful lessons about the need to recharge every night, new EV drivers may well have the embarrassment of forgetting to charge them at a critical juncture.


"Slow" L2 charging at home - or for some at work - is how a strong majority of EV owners are powering their vehicles today, full stop:

'The infrastructure' is ready as soon as you have a 14-50 outlet and EVSE installed. Park the car, plug it in, done - and can schedule it to start charging in the middle of the night when power is cheaper since you're not going to routinely need a full charge.

Thus the use case for fast charging will be road trips and contingency usage when running extended errands. Thus we'll need them, but not at parity with gasoline pumps.


Given that pretty much every EV on the market has route planning that's aware of the availability - and usually status - of charging stations along the way it's rather difficult to stuff up a road trip.


Park vehicle at home, plug it in, and never worry about having to make a trip just to get fuel ever again - seems pretty convenient to me. And with 800V architectures coming into play that 30 minutes to 80% is less than 20 minutes at a 350kW CCS charger.
Owned my current Mazda 6 sSport trim V6 for almost 14 years now. Bought her brand new. Maintained her service schedule all these years. For the first time, just 2 months ago, I put the key in; she refused to start. Needed a new alternator. With that one exception, she's been completely reliable. I'm sorry, but when I can come home from work, exhausted; simply park in my garaged spot and not do anything else while knowing my vehicle will start each time I put the key in the ignition.... That is a helluva lot more reliable than plugging in an EV, and maybe it'll charge but maybe it won't. This is a serious issue. It's not something that can be dismissed by pointing out a very minor issue with gasoline powered cars that have been well-maintained.

Yes, L2 charging is how they're doing it NOW. But we're talking about those who are enthusiastic about driving EV vehicles, today. Those individuals are not the mass of society whom in the future might be forced to buy EV or hybrid vehicles years from now, due to a variety of reasons. Some legit, some artificially created. (For example: A certain European nation where the price of fuel has been disgustingly, artificially inflated by its politicians to over $12.oo a gallon. Reason? They want their citizens to buy EV vehicles, and are thus forcing them to do so. And it's working. I don't think Americans would stand for such disgusting levels of corruption. But we both know politicians would try it.) The masses want fast and convenient. They want both. They can't get that now. And again, you can't just ignore the 1/3 of the population who can't simply plug in an EV.

I'm sorry but I can't agree. The infrastructure is not there. I know people, with houses, who have bought EVs only to re-sell them months later. The charging isn't 100% reliable. Not even close. When they looked for more advanced charging stations away from their homes, they either couldn't find them or they weren't close to their homes or work. When they went to regular charging stations, having to wait half an hour compared to less than 5 minutes at a gas station, and again assuming the station's chargers will even work.... It became too much for them. Plus, slow home charging leaves 1/3 of the population out in the lurch. That's not a properly set up infrastructure. Not even remotely. You can't simply dismiss 1/3 of a nation's population and say, "We're good!"

Route planning is all well and good. Doesn't help if the nearest charging station won't charge up your EV, or if it's so far away that you'd have to either cancel your trip or rent a gasoline powered vehicle to know you'll get to your destination in a timely manner. Speaking of timely, less than 5 minutes is nothing. Half an hour, possibly longer to get a good charge is a different story. Especially half an hour each and every single time you have to stop on a long road trip. And, again, each time you stop; you never know if you'll get a charge out of that station or not. That's a headache and a hassle most folks don't want to deal with.

Sorry but again, as I've pointed out above, it's not as simple as park at home, plug in, wait, and you're ready to go in half an hour. The technology is too new, it's not reliable; yet. Same thing with Push-Button start on cars. It was released far too early. The most ridiculous things could cause the car not to recognize its own fob, and thus not start. Perfect example was a Nissan Murano on that canceled show, "Speeders." Obnoxious woman got pulled over, got a ticket, went to start her vehicle; wouldn't start. Left her stranded on a public street. All of a sudden she was sooo friendly when she asked the officer for help. He replied she should use her cell-phone to call a tow truck. No one here is Ron Popeil. You can just "Set it, and forget it" with an EV. Perhaps one day. That day is not today. Charging technology on EVs is unreliable. The tech is still too new.
 

knucklegary

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Public libraries in CA are offering "free" ev charging. Residence is not a requirement. You don't need a library card. Any person who needs some juice can just stop and plug-in. There's absolutely no oversight or control..

A library worker said there's always a Prius in one of the four charger stations. I've seen the car before on weekdays, and weekends, it's always hooked up.. That person lives close enough to leave their car and walk home.

County taxes; I pay $25 yearly to library so anybody, tax payer or not, who drives an ev can charge for "free"

Welcome to California land of the Free!
 

Chauncey Gardiner

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Screen Shot 2022-08-16 at 2.50.11 PM.jpeg


Yes, please! :clap:
 

idleprocess

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That is a helluva lot more reliable than plugging in an EV, and maybe it'll charge but maybe it won't. This is a serious issue.
Sure it's a serious issue if it happens to you. But so is your ICE car not starting - which is less likely to happen with maintenance, but even well-maintained vehicles malf on people without warning.

Other than your assertion that failure to charge is an endemic problem with EVs I've heard quite the contrary about modern EVs from numerous owners. There were some problems with the EV's of 10-20 years ago that could result in failure to charge:
  • The original NiMH RAV4EV of ~20 years ago had problems with balancing modules and would might refuse to charge; this was generally an issue at the end of the pack's life
  • The inductive chargers of ~20 years ago (original RAV4EV, GM EV1) often experienced component failure that would manifest as an increasing refusal to charge until the component expired
  • I recall that the AVCON/SAE J1772-1998 connector of >20 years ago was finnicky about maintaining continuous contact
  • The original Tesla Roadster was essentially an early beta product while early Model S's were late beta products - the Model S was sold with a customer NDA gagging reporting about defects as of 2016 and seemingly were still a thing as of 2016. That the customer base accepted the early buggy nature of the cars was nothing short of amazing since they spent a lot of time in the shop; failure to charge was but one of many issues they experienced.
Yes, L2 charging is how they're doing it NOW. But we're talking about those who are enthusiastic about driving EV vehicles, today.
The source I linked studied the first-generation Nissan Leaf which had an abysmal by present standards 25-30 kWh battery with optimistic EPA ratings of between 73 and 107 miles; if ever there was a vehicle that would lean on public chargers the first-gen Leaf was it.

In 2022 there appear to be all of seven EV's being offered by OEMs on the US market with nominal EPA ranges of less than 200 miles; average looks to be closer to 250.

Those individuals are not the mass of society whom in the future might be forced to buy EV or hybrid vehicles years from now, due to a variety of reasons.
Debates about politics are apt to get this thread closed and a bit off topic. There's an alternate venue for such topics if you prefer.

And again, you can't just ignore the 1/3 of the population who can't simply plug in an EV.
[...]
Plus, slow home charging leaves 1/3 of the population out in the lurch. That's not a properly set up infrastructure. Not even remotely. You can't simply dismiss 1/3 of a nation's population and say, "We're good!"
This isn't my judgement so much as my assessment of the market. Market dynamics are heavily slanted towards the status quo of the present use case - urban/suburban residents of single-family detached homes - because the automakers literally cannot make enough EVs to meet demand. The domestic automakers are finding out what Tesla has known since the beginning - the demand comes to them without advertising and without demanding the incentives that juice conventional vehicle sales. This situation won't endure forever but for now it nets a decent amount of juice for minimal squeeze.

Thus for now, the userbase will likely heavily favor home (or work) L2 charging. Even apartment complexes here in truckistan Dallas-Forth Worth are starting to offer L2 chargers for residents - either in dedicated rented spots or in shared EV parking spots.

When they went to regular charging stations, having to wait half an hour compared to less than 5 minutes at a gas station, and again assuming the station's chargers will even work.... It became too much for them.
There are absolutely use cases where the 20-30 minutes to fast charge - and more frequently than refueling stops in an ICE won't work - I mentioned some in a previous post. The annual-ish summer road trip in an automobile might not make quite as many miles in an EV as an ICE vehicle, but the hit probably isn't debilitating - and the proverbial "5 minute pit stop" in my observation is lucky to be as brief as 15 minutes.

Public charger reliability can be a problem, however it's an evolving situation.
 

orbital

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Yes, please! :clap:
+
No 8 Track available Chance__ although> I may know a guy, who knows a guy on a used Mr. Microphone:dedhorse:hehehehe
Wishing Nissan had released that version before their merger with Renault. Let me guess, you get a traditional manual. And for the rest of us, a CVT automatic, from Jatco. The CVT that you'll be lucky to get 40,000 miles out of before it implodes and you need a new tranny.

The new Z is 6 speed manual or 9 speed automatic.
straight up drivers car.
 

Chauncey Gardiner

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+
No 8 Track available Chance__ although> I may know a guy, who knows a guy on a used Mr. Microphone:dedhorse:hehehehe


The new Z is 6 speed manual or 9 speed automatic.
straight up drivers car.

HA! Not a deal-breaker. Back in the day I was a cassette guy.

Has anyone else noticed Jay Leno almost never throws the proverbial verbiage ball back to his guests? He has a habit of pretty much moving the conversation on down the road.
 

Monocrom

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Sure it's a serious issue if it happens to you. But so is your ICE car not starting - which is less likely to happen with maintenance, but even well-maintained vehicles malf on people without warning.

Other than your assertion that failure to charge is an endemic problem with EVs I've heard quite the contrary about modern EVs from numerous owners. There were some problems with the EV's of 10-20 years ago that could result in failure to charge:
  • The original NiMH RAV4EV of ~20 years ago had problems with balancing modules and would might refuse to charge; this was generally an issue at the end of the pack's life
  • The inductive chargers of ~20 years ago (original RAV4EV, GM EV1) often experienced component failure that would manifest as an increasing refusal to charge until the component expired
  • I recall that the AVCON/SAE J1772-1998 connector of >20 years ago was finnicky about maintaining continuous contact
  • The original Tesla Roadster was essentially an early beta product while early Model S's were late beta products - the Model S was sold with a customer NDA gagging reporting about defects as of 2016 and seemingly were still a thing as of 2016. That the customer base accepted the early buggy nature of the cars was nothing short of amazing since they spent a lot of time in the shop; failure to charge was but one of many issues they experienced.

The source I linked studied the first-generation Nissan Leaf which had an abysmal by present standards 25-30 kWh battery with optimistic EPA ratings of between 73 and 107 miles; if ever there was a vehicle that would lean on public chargers the first-gen Leaf was it.

In 2022 there appear to be all of seven EV's being offered by OEMs on the US market with nominal EPA ranges of less than 200 miles; average looks to be closer to 250.


Debates about politics are apt to get this thread closed and a bit off topic. There's an alternate venue for such topics if you prefer.


This isn't my judgement so much as my assessment of the market. Market dynamics are heavily slanted towards the status quo of the present use case - urban/suburban residents of single-family detached homes - because the automakers literally cannot make enough EVs to meet demand. The domestic automakers are finding out what Tesla has known since the beginning - the demand comes to them without advertising and without demanding the incentives that juice conventional vehicle sales. This situation won't endure forever but for now it nets a decent amount of juice for minimal squeeze.

Thus for now, the userbase will likely heavily favor home (or work) L2 charging. Even apartment complexes here in truckistan Dallas-Forth Worth are starting to offer L2 chargers for residents - either in dedicated rented spots or in shared EV parking spots.


There are absolutely use cases where the 20-30 minutes to fast charge - and more frequently than refueling stops in an ICE won't work - I mentioned some in a previous post. The annual-ish summer road trip in an automobile might not make quite as many miles in an EV as an ICE vehicle, but the hit probably isn't debilitating - and the proverbial "5 minute pit stop" in my observation is lucky to be as brief as 15 minutes.

Public charger reliability can be a problem, however it's an evolving situation.
Actually no, that's not how serious issues work. Not trying to open up THAT can of worms on CPF, again. But imagine if someone said the same thing about COVID. I've never been infected, myself. But I would never say, "Well, I don't know why everyone took a bunch of precautions. I never got infected. So clearly it wasn't a serious issue at all." Do you see the problem with that mentality? It just doesn't hold water. (Or, in this case, doesn't hold a charge.)

As far as well-maintained gasoline powered vehicles go, I can only speak for the ones I've owned over the decades. A 1998 Ford Escort sedan bought 5 years used. And, a brand new 2009 Mazda 6 sSport trim V6. Both maintained by me. Both were reliable, with the exception of needing a new alternator for the Mazda which I mentioned earlier. But that one was on me. The old alternator was indeed very old. So, I messed up there. Not the car's fault. Thus, when properly maintained, I've had zero issues with the ones I've owned. Properly maintained gasoline powered cars don't just break down for no reason at all.

I've done my research into EVs and charging technology. I've found numerous examples of charging issues. It's the biggest one out there. If that one, major issue didn't exist; I'd be here asking about the 2023 Chevy Bolt. Since that model is coming out with a significant price-drop compared to the 2022 version, and I'm seriously considering moving into a rented house. Sorry, but that's still a major issue for now.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of average range. I don't remember who said it many years ago, otherwise I'd give credit where it's due. But the gist is, EVs will not take over in America until Americans can replicate gasoline vehicle performance. Meaning, you head out on a road trip. The needle is dangerously close to "E." So you drive a few miles at most, pull into a gas station, fuel up, head out again in a very short amount of time. Run low on gas again, pull into a gas station, fuel up, head out. When you can do that with an EV at a charging station that doesn't require being there for half an hour. When you can do that without having to carefully plan or take an EVs average range into account, then the masses will switch over to EVs in droves. That outlook was over 10 years ago. EVs still aren't there. I do honestly believe that one day they will be. But it's not today, nor anytime in the very near future.

No clue what you mean by politics. I simply brought up the corrupt way one foreign nation is forcing its citizens to buy EVs. That's more about corruption than politics. I haven't talked about party lines, Democrats vs. Republicans, or any of that sort of thing.

People want to save money. Especially on gas for their cars. The market demand is coming due to that. Not necessarily a huge demand specifically for EVs. Right now, EVs (and to a lesser extent, hybrids) are the best alternative out there. Which is why a proper charging station infrastructure needs to be put in place. I read about an apartment resident on the outskirts of Chicago who put in a herculean effort to convince the building board to put in a charging station into one of the designated parking spots. The one assigned to him since he really wanted an EV. Eventually, they did it. And then raised his rates by 4x on that parking spot. So, every month he pays 4x more than literally all the other residents. But I'm sure he'll save money in the long run. But that brings up another issue we haven't tackled at all....

Clearly electric companies are going to jack up their rates when, eventually, a significant percentage of the population switches over to EVs. Obviously, there's a clear difference between renewable energy sources vs. non-renewable ones for automobiles. It will be interesting to see how high those rates become though.

Can't speak for other drivers, but when I fuel up; yeah, we're talking less than 5 minutes. Gas stations in my neck of the woods when it comes to Snack Shops attached to them, are obscenely expensive! How much for a bag of chips and a can of soda?! No thank you! Better to make a dedicated pit stop at almost anywhere else if you need anything other than gas. But still, even for those who do take 15 minutes instead of less than 5, that's still going to be half as long compared to 30. If anything, people are far more impatient now than just a few years ago. And, there's another issue. Highlighted perfectly in a YouTube video I saw made by, ironically; a young woman trying to convince her boyfriend that EVs are the way to go.

Used an App. to find a charging station. Problem is there was only one charger, and it was occupied by someone who let his vehicle get very low. They had to wait. So, now if there's someone ahead of you, you can add whatever amount of time they will be there, on top of the 30 minutes you'll need to charge up your ride. I'm sorry but that doesn't happen at gas stations. Less time to pump fuel, plus multiple pumps means no such headache.

Honestly though, we agree that public charger reliability is evolving and getting to the point where it'll be as utterly reliable as charging up one's Smartphone. But for the Today Buyer of cars, it's an issue; now. In about two years I'll be getting a new car. I tend to keep my cars for over a decade. (Unless some genius who has no clue how to use a turn-signal totals my ride.) By the time I'm ready for a new car after this upcoming one in two years, I have no doubt that I'll be buying an EV. By then, everything will realistically be sorted out and genuinely ready for the masses. Just like Push-button Starters. Useless technological gimmick when they first came out. But now a genuine anti-theft feature that works properly. (It's why I bought an sSport trim Mazda 6 back in 2009. Out of three V6 trim levels available for that model back then, the sSport trim was the only one without a Push-button Starter.)
 

KITROBASKIN

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The Mercedes-AMG One has set a new fastest lap for production cars at the Nürburgring, eclipsing the previous record by almost 10sec.
The 1049bhp hypercar posted a time of 6min 35.183sec around the 156-corner circuit, driven by Mercedes DTM driver Maro Engel on 28 October. This lap time also took the record for the super-sports car category.
Dubbed a Formula 1 car for the road, the £2.2 million hypercar is the most potent Mercedes-AMG road car ever made, combining a modified version of the firm's turbocharged 1.6-litre V6 grand prix engine with four electric motors.

 
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