Dammit now I wanna mod my 6P

[Agent_Jaws]

I probably should've stayed away from these forums since I have a tendancy to start jacking with all my stuff once I learn that I can lol. So I'm sitting here doing all this reading about stuff with my 6P staring at me on the coffee table and now I've got some urges to start tinkering with it. I hope you guys can help me come up with some ideas since I'm still new to this arena, I have some ideas of what I want to do and could use some help in other areas.

I have a bone stock Surefire 6P that I picked up on my way to Iraq a while back. I want to make it a little more useful and to that end, I'm looking to add a clickie tailcap (my L4 has one and I love it). I'm thinking the Z59 cap looks good for that. I am also considering picking up a spare P60L lamp for it but I'm not sure if I should do that or just get a spare incandescent since I already have a LED light. I am curious too about picking up some rechargeable batteries but I'm not sure what all will fit, and I see a lot of you guys throwing out 5-digit numbers for batteries and it's sorta confusing.

Does anyone here use a different clicky tailcap on their 6P? I'm open to options but on the other hand I'm a fan of certified parts.

Do you guys have any recommendations for different lamps? I know there are a lot of P60 drop-ins but I'm not sure how they all compare in power/runtime. I like the power of the stock bulb for an incandescent but would like more runtime if possible.

What kinds of batteries can I use with the stock components? I read that some of the rechargeables are not recommended with Surefire incandescents but am not sure why.

I've been spoiled by the clicky tailcap on my L4 so now it's a must for my 6P. I kinda put this light on the back burner because the L4 is so awesome but now that I've found all these cool tricks it could be a different story.

 

[aussiebob]

I wouldnt recomment the P60L, its not much chop, very blue tint and now where as bright as standard p60 incan. Even it says 80lum and the incan is 60, dont listen to that.

I use a 6p with 2 rcr123 and the p90 lamp as well as the lumen factory lamps like the ho-9 its a nice set up, you get arount 20 min run time with flat discharge, it dont go very yellow before turning off.

Ive heard the malkoff dropins are really good and can be used with rcr123 or primary.

Cheers.

 

[brighterisbetter]

This thread should be a good beginning point for you.

 

[Niconical]

There are plenty of rechargeable options for the 6P running incan.

Don't ask me to list 'em all, way beyond my level, but the simplest are...

Option 1: A 3.7volt lamp, like the EO-4 from Lumens factory, with 1 protected 17670 battery, from AW on the marketplace.
This gives a similar light output to the stock P60 lamp with primaries.

Option 2: A Surefire P90 lamp or similar, with 2 x AW RCR123A batteries.

Chosing between them is just a case of the good old runtime/output dilemma, and that is something only you can decide.

As I said, you can move onwards and upwards from there, but either of those 2 options will get you running a rechargeable incan with readily available items, at least (if not more) output than the stock P60, and with no additional cost for eating through batteries.

Lumens Factory 3.7v lamp options

Lumens Factory lamp for use with 2 x RCR123A - the HO-9

AW battery sales thread for protected 17670 or protected RCR123A

 

[Agent_Jaws]

Thanks for the direction guys, that info helps a lot. That opens up a ton of possibilities and I guess I have a lot to consider now.

I don't suppose any of you know if a Surefire 6P body can handle the 18650 by chance since that seems to be the highest capacity for that length? I'm interested in running that battery to extend runtime over what the 17670 would provide.

I considered the idea of doing a 2 x 18650 battery setup but I like the shorter size of the standard lights better, and I'd like to avoid replacing the battery tube if possible.

Also, if you throw regular 123s into a tube for the 18650 do they rattle around a lot? I hate loose gear and would like to keep things as tight as possible. This wouldn't be a huge problem necessarily but I'm just curious how well they fit.

 

[cfromc]

The 6P body probably won't fit a 18650 but should fit a 17650. I've tried CR123s in a 18650 tube and they don't rattle much unless really shaken or dropped.

A comment on the P60L, some are blue/purple but some are really white. There seems to be a better chance of getting a white one in the newer batches. Regardless of color, I've never seen one that wasn't brighter than a P60. Last weekend I compared a brand new P60 to a brand new P60L, with brand new Surefire batteries, and the P60L was obviously, although slightly, brighter. The runtime is also vastly different with several hours of usuable bright light for the P60L, versus an hour or so of diminishing light from the P60.

 

[mdocod]

Thanks for the direction guys, that info helps a lot. That opens up a ton of possibilities and I guess I have a lot to consider now.

I don't suppose any of you know if a Surefire 6P body can handle the 18650 by chance since that seems to be the highest capacity for that length? I'm interested in running that battery to extend runtime over what the 17670 would provide.

I considered the idea of doing a 2 x 18650 battery setup but I like the shorter size of the standard lights better, and I'd like to avoid replacing the battery tube if possible.

Also, if you throw regular 123s into a tube for the 18650 do they rattle around a lot? I hate loose gear and would like to keep things as tight as possible. This wouldn't be a huge problem necessarily but I'm just curious how well they fit.

Please read that link that brighterisbetter posted, it will help answer your questions about what fits where.

The compatibility chart is lacking an important new addition to the world of li-ion cells. And that is the new LiMn chemistry 16340 cells from AW, they can handle anything up to around a 4 amp load, so they can be used with higher output lamp assemblies. Other than that, pretty much everything that you can do with an incandescent lamp assembly and a li-ion cell/s and a 6P is listed in that chart.


18650s are about 18mm diameter, CR123s are ~16-17mm diameter. Tubes for 18650s are generally bored to ~18.5-19mm, so CR123s will rattle in there.

Eric

 

[metlarules]

Thanks for the direction guys, that info helps a lot. That opens up a ton of possibilities and I guess I have a lot to consider now.

I don't suppose any of you know if a Surefire 6P body can handle the 18650 by chance since that seems to be the highest capacity for that length? I'm interested in running that battery to extend runtime over what the 17670 would provide.

I considered the idea of doing a 2 x 18650 battery setup but I like the shorter size of the standard lights better, and I'd like to avoid replacing the battery tube if possible.

Also, if you throw regular 123s into a tube for the 18650 do they rattle around a lot? I hate loose gear and would like to keep things as tight as possible. This wouldn't be a huge problem necessarily but I'm just curious how well they fit.

If you don't want to buy a new tube you could get a couple of Surefire a-19 extenders and run 2x17670's.That way you can have the short tube when you want to carry and the long version when you want more light. The best of both worlds.

 

[Superdave]

I briefly ran a Lumens factory E0-9 in a 6P with 2 Ultrafire 123 rechargeables. Not long enough to run the batts down.. just long enough to cook a spider on my desk at work. it worked very well.. iirc current draw is under 2A when i use it on 2 18650's (i'll double check that to be sure).

very bright.. probably 250-300L out the front. :twothumbs

 

[Zenster]

The simplest, and most bang for the buck, conversion you can do is to go with one of the Malkoff drop-in's.
His M60 is overkill and will make the 6P incan look like a candle, but maybe even better would be the M60L which is nearly as bright as the M60 but would give you more than 4 hours runtime on a pair of CR123's which makes makes it a lot cheaper to run on those batteries.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop2/index-main_page-index-cPath-1_8.html

I've got several 6P's, and I did try the 2x18650 tube conversion with the M60 Malkoff and it's a great combination. Huge lighting with huge runtime, and I actually like the longer form factor. Plus, I can always swap out the tube back to the original and go with CR123's if I absolutely feel I have to carry a more compact light.

 

[Superdave]

I bored out my 9P and an extender for 2 18650's last week... I'd try to do a runtime test with my Q5 dropin but i think after a few days i'd lose intrest and forget that it was on.


I get about 3 weeks of moderate useage with 1 18650 in my 6P and a regular Q5. :twothumbs

 

[Agent_Jaws]

I bored out my 9P and an extender for 2 18650's last week... I'd try to do a runtime test with my Q5 dropin but i think after a few days i'd lose intrest and forget that it was on.


I get about 3 weeks of moderate useage with 1 18650 in my 6P and a regular Q5. :twothumbs

Ah thanks that's pretty much the answer I was looking for. I read the links and I know the 6P/9P isn't listed as fitting the 18650, but if they can be bored out then that still means I won't need a new tube. I know my 6P has room around the batteries so I wasn't sure if I could just bore it out slightly and fit the 18650 in it. I used to mod my pc stuff and cars all the time so I'm no stranger to getting my hands dirty

 

[Superdave]

finding a 18 or 19mm drill bit is hard, 3/4" works but you have to be very carefull or you'll open up the lands for the Orings.

I forget the size i used the last time, it was something that was almost exactly 18mm, i had to use my die grinder and a 120 grit sanding roll (i port heads on the side) to gain a tad of space.. then ran a fine crossbuff through it all. 18650's slide right in.


*edit 23/32" was the bit size. I slightly modified the cutting tip to make it cut through the tube easier.

 

[socom1970]

finding a 18 or 19mm drill bit is hard, 3/4" works but you have to be very carefull or you'll open up the lands for the Orings.

I forget the size i used the last time, it was something that was almost exactly 18mm, i had to use my die grinder and a 120 grit sanding roll (i port heads on the side) to gain a tad of space.. then ran a fine crossbuff through it all. 18650's slide right in.


*edit 23/32" was the bit size. I slightly modified the cutting tip to make it cut through the tube easier.

What Superdave said... The finished product is excellent. Definitely bore out your 6P. You won't regret it. Just make sure you are careful to bore in as straight as possible, so you don't do what I did and breach the body a bit. Now the "valley" where one of the o-rings go has a hole about 5mm long where the bit got too close to the surface, so it's not quite watertight anymore, but still a ton-o-fun!!! I liked how well Superdave's bored-out 9P turned out, and can't wait till work tommorrow when I can hopefully get my 9P+A19 back from him.:thumbsup:

Don't know if I will see him tomorrow though, as he and his wonderful wife went to the hospital a couple days ago to bring back a new addition to their family. BTW, how about it, Dave? What's the scoop? Inquiring minds want to know... (sorry for the slight hijack)

 

[Agent_Jaws]

23/32 size bit looks right, doing the math that works out to around .718 inches, while converting 18mm works to around .708 inches. Converting 19mm comes out to more like .748 inches, so a quick bore + sanding looks like a good idea.

Gonna hunt around the garage and see what I can come up with.

 

[mdocod]

I just used a 3/4" on a solarforce extender. Mostly just to match the bore diameter of the FM body it was going on. Worked well, just make sure to get lined up right and keep the RPMs low with a gentle but steady feed rate.

 

[Agent_Jaws]

I feel like I've been reading these boards for the last 3 or 4 days straight now because there's so much information.

mdocod I just found some stuff you posted about the FM body and it's got me interested. If I read the battery thread correctly then if instead of working with 18650s I went with 18500s, I could get good runtime in a slightly shorter package. I am now considering picking up one of the FM 18500 tubes since it seems to be a direct replacement for a 9P. I was thinking of doing this because then I could run the same lamp between primaries and rechargeables with about the same runtime. Looking at your chart you list the P90 lamp @ 67 minutes on 2 x 18500, and switching to 3 x 123 primaries still gives about 60 minutes (SF rating). Am I correct in that or have I missed something?

I think the ability to go between rechargeables and primaries without having to swap bulbs could really influence my decision making process here.

 

[yellow]

April last year I did this mod with my old 6P. [edit]the 1st one You typed about[/edit]
BIG pressed-in heatsink, Flupic diver, Cree XR-E P4 bin, SShoppe 19mm reflector, clicky tailcap, body bored to accomodate 18650.
(CAREFUL: there remains a sidewall of just ~0.5 mm material at the end, where the O-ring sits. Do not put force on there!)

It is still the best 18650 light in my arsenal, containing much newer (read: "should be brighter") lights like Jetbeam Jet III Pro ST (3 weeks), L-mini (2 months) and such. All with "Q5" at least.
Both offer a more focused beam and expecially the Jet has almost no transition from spot to spill, while the SS lets the main beam fade into spill. Also there are NO rings with the SS.
Current at battery at full output (0.9 A) is less than both the Jet (1.33 A) and the L-Mini (1.15 A) - but the "old" P4 still seems brighter.
imho it is the reflector that makes up for this. The SS simply is way deeper than any and focuses more light forward.

it is a nice mod, BUT: just the clicky cap alone costed me more than the Jetbeam and this light is also very nice (and a bit smaller).
Then there is the realistic chance to loose the 6P body at milling, or when too much force has gone at the weakened end cap part.

My advise therefore: get the Jet III for less
it surpasses most inserts for the 6P by far

PS: Now all the new Jetbeams feature user-programmable levels, machining is good (not as good as SF, but still good), materials are top notch.
"Jet III" stands for 18650 size.

 

[mdocod]

At the current sale price on those FM bodies you should go for it. Your understanding of how it will work is spot on. The 2x18500 is a good option. I'm in agreement with many on these boards that a 9P size light is really not too big for EDC, (I routinely holster and EDC larger lights than that). If you stick with incan, then having that 9P size 2x18500 setup is nice as you pointed out because you can slide CR123s in as backup without any bulb change.

Try out an EO-9 as an alternative to the P90 if you decide on this setup, it's a nice step up in oomf, (enough to see). Many people like it.

Eric

I feel like I've been reading these boards for the last 3 or 4 days straight now because there's so much information.

mdocod I just found some stuff you posted about the FM body and it's got me interested. If I read the battery thread correctly then if instead of working with 18650s I went with 18500s, I could get good runtime in a slightly shorter package. I am now considering picking up one of the FM 18500 tubes since it seems to be a direct replacement for a 9P. I was thinking of doing this because then I could run the same lamp between primaries and rechargeables with about the same runtime. Looking at your chart you list the P90 lamp @ 67 minutes on 2 x 18500, and switching to 3 x 123 primaries still gives about 60 minutes (SF rating). Am I correct in that or have I missed something?

I think the ability to go between rechargeables and primaries without having to swap bulbs could really influence my decision making process here.

 

[Agent_Jaws]

I bit on the FM body, cost-wise that looked like a great deal and would be ideal for what I want to do. Being able to flip back and forth between rechargeables and primaries with no bulb change is perfect for me, and from my understanding of things I should be able to work with either incandescents or LED modules without a problem so long as they can handle up to 9v, which most LED modules do.

As for right now I am planning to keep this build on incandescent light. Believe it or not though I was actually considering the ES-9 for the extended runtime. I don't really need a more powerful light than the P60 level bulb, and the 30-50% increase in runtime (80~94 minutes vs 60ish) is attractive to me.

I am still going to need a clicky tail, and since I have all those new components I may as well pick up a bezel. What do you guys think of the G&P stuff? They look pretty inexpensive and suitable for the application. If they're junk though I'd consider just sticking with Surefire for the tail and getting the Lighthound SS head. Here are some configuration options I am thinking of:

FM 2x18500 body (ordered) ~ $35
ES-9 bulb ~ $13

and either

G&P Tactical Head ~ $13
or
Lighthound Stainless Steel head ~ $30

and

G&P A.I. Tailcap Switch (clicky w/ strobe) ~ $17
or
Surefire Z59 Tailcap (clicky) ~ $40

Bringing the total cost, less batteries, to between $78 and $120 for basically a longer running but slightly less output 9P. It looks like Solar Force has some options too for the head and tail that could possibly bring the total cost down to under $70, which seems like an awesome deal for a light of this level that will run the 18500s just fine.

Any of you guys have experience with the G&P or Solar Force stuff in comparison to Surefire? Or perhaps more in connection with Surefire parts? I'm cheap but I still need it to be reliable and tank-like.