E1B & E2DL- really tactical or just marketing?

[jonesy]

So I got to thinking what makes up a good tactical light, and quite frankly I'm not convinced that these Surefires in particular are really a wise choice for use in conjunction with a firearm or for self defense. First off, the switch.

I find it interesting that the traditional tactical light (like a 6P) is pure momentary only with twist to constant on. This gives the user, in a high stress situation, the ability to get full power quickly and easily as well as being able to revert to no light just by lifting a finger. Seeing that I haven't been in a gunfight yet (and I hope I never do), everything I have read points that fine motor skills go out the window, so having a multi-click interface in something like the Surefires could get you in a boatload of trouble. You start jamming down the button, it goes from full to off to low mode, and by that point the BG is somewhere else or on top of you. In this regard, I would put the L1 down as being more tactically oriented, as the switch is simple: mash down for high. Let off to turn off.

I'm torn on the beam, and hopefully some of the more knoweledgeable members can help me out here. I'm assuming, according to the ads and marketing I've seen for these lights, that they most likely going to be used in an urban environment, which would imply that there's some ambient light around. So if you want to spotlight someone, a light with throw would be best, such as the aforementioned Surefires. So in that situation they would work pretty well, but what about room clearing in your house, or out in the woods? These lights seem to lack a stronger spill, which seems necessary to me. I remember a thread on here a bit ago that showcased someone's backyard filled with mockup badguys, and the throw oriented lights did a bad job at IDing targets.

So what's the deal? In your own varied experiences, do these lights live up to the mission they're designed for? Are they just asking to get the user in trouble? Let me know what you think!

Note: This is not a Surefire bash, over 80% of my lights are Surefires. I love them and will keep on using them. I'm just concerned that people might think that these lights are the best choice in a tactical light, and it might end up biting them back when they need it most.

 

[bigfoot]

I'm no expert, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night...

I think the E1B was designed as a backup light (of course, it helps that they named it that). Kinda like that saying, "Two is one, and one is none". Small enough to keep on your person at all times, but bright enough to be used if it has to be brought out. Another way I see it is being used for routine tasks, leaving the high-powered light (6P or whatever) with full batteries.

As for the E2DL and other lights with strike bezels -- better than nothing I guess. This is the one I see with the marketing push for the "tacticool" crowd. Me, I like my clothes without holes in them.

Just my .02 FWIW. Which ain't much.

 

[carrot]

Like all lights, when the E1B and E2DL were designed, certain compromises were made. You simply cannot have *everything.* With the E1B and E2DL I believe the idea was to have a "tactical" level of light (enough to temporarily blind or disorient an attacker) while retaining the clickie format and also providing two levels of output as high output is simply not always necessary.

While I disagree with the choice of UI -- a 2-stage selector ring at the tailcap similar to the U2, would have been far superior it would have made the lights larger and cost significantly more.

I do think you are right in assuming the two lights are designed to spotlight someone, as the TIR optics excel at this. But I am not too sure about room clearing either, as I would want a lot of flood (more compromise?) and sidespill. However, remember that the X200A (pistol-mounted WeaponsLight) had a TIR optic, the same as the last generation KL1 and similar to this generation's KX1, so clearly Surefire sees that there are some circumstances where a tight beam is useful (to be fair, the X200B was essentially an L4).

I see the E1B as being more of a duty officer's light -- the low is good for reading registration papers and writing tickets, and the high is good for approaching a suspect's vehicle, or when in pursuit of a suspect, etc. We often forget that a LEO's duties are more than hunting down BG's in an overstuffed warehouse (thanks Hollywood).

For really "tactical" things like room clearing, where it may be a bad idea to constantly have your light on, the clear choice is one of Surefire's twisty-based lights.

 

[Stainz]

My Surefire experience started with a 6P LED - then a 6P that got another P60L. I like that flashlight. I wanted, however, a Surefire like my Fenix P2D Premium. I bought an E1B Backup. It has the basics - a decent high output and a good reading level or go to the can and not step on a cat in the dark at night level, too. Quality is excellent - and - no belt sheath - rides nicely clipped in a front pocket. I liked the higher output level - and strobe - of the Fenix, too.

I had some extra bucks after a firearms sale, and subsequent purchase, and my 'pusher' - aka 'enabler' - suggested an E2DL at a nice price. Sucker for a deal, I took it home. Nice light - definitely bright - not a room-filler, however. I tried the clip on my belt - and promptly sprung the clip and bounce-tested the light off of a concrete sidewalk, altering the crenellations a bit. I carry it in my pocket.

It would make a decent handheld physical weapon, but I doubt that it's light level would irritate an attacker, unless he had a severe migraine. The little P2D with it's super bright strobe would be more likely to disorient. There are cheaper handheld physical strike devices.

General purpose use still dictates the 6PL around the house, the E1B when I am 'out and about', and the E2DL goes on walks at night.

Stainz

 

[Yoda4561]

It's to differentiate them from their "outdoorsman" line of lights. The difference being the interface and output more suited for use in surefire's original market (law enforcement/personal defense) where if you need the light you can just pull it out and smash the button and it comes on full brightness, without worrying if it will come on in strobe/low by accident or something. I would have prefered a single level or two stage pressure switch, but as far as multi-click interfaces it's good enough, as long as you don't want to try strobing manually

 

[Lightguru1]

It's to differentiate them from their "outdoorsman" line of lights. The difference being the interface and output more suited for use in surefire's original market (law enforcement/personal defense) where if you need the light you can just pull it out and smash the button and it comes on full brightness, without worrying if it will come on in strobe/low by accident or something. I would have prefered a single level or two stage pressure switch, but as far as multi-click interfaces it's good enough, as long as you don't want to try strobing manually

Why not? You can get that Tacticool "High/Low" strobe effect :nana::shakeheadoo::huh:

 

[Kato]

Yes, the multi-click/multi-mode interface sucks for tactical use. It's fine on a utility light, but becomes problematic when properly conducting building searches or when engaging a suspect. The Surefire Institute (and many other affiliated instructors) teach light-move-light techniques in their low light combat courses. The multi-click/multi-mode interface of the E1B and the E2DL renders these techniques completely useless: now I have 120 lumens, now I have 5 lumens, now I have 120 lumens, now I have 5 lumens.

I've spoken with several of Surefire's law enforcement reps and they told me that they tried to fight the multi-click/multi-mode interface for the E1B and the E2DL. The function of the interface is completely contrary to the techniques their instructors teach. Apparently, they were overruled.

I would love to see SF make an E-series light with an interface like that on the NiteCore Extreme. When the head is screwed-on all the way, it's set to high with momentary-on and a constant-on clicky. No matter how fast or slow I press the button, I'll always get high. If I want low, I loosen the head slightly. Because low mode is usually needed when I am not actively engaging a suspect, the two handed mode change is not a problem.

 

[EasySt]

I carry my E2DL with an F04 Diffuser Cap slipped onto the business end. It makes a really nice flood and also keeps the crenelated head from tearing up my pocket. It fits well, stays on well and is easy and quick to remove.

I wound up swapping the tail caps and clips between an E1B and the E2DL to make the E1B Tail standing and to further improve pocket carry on the E2DL.

Here's a pic:

 

[cfromc]

I'm guessing that the E1B is a back-up light designed to have a "tactical" high and a working low with long run-time. For me the E2D and LED version would be an "around-town" light with some kubatan-ish qualities. I would not use either for home defense and/or room clearing unless I had no other choice. If I am armed then a tactical light is one with two positions, off and on, and a quiet momentary switch. If I am unarmed then I'd rather have a 3D Mag lite than one of these smaller lights, if it ever came to that, but 3Ds are not fun for EDC, so having something is better than norhing, hence the E2D.

 

[Moka]

I can't speak for use with a gun for room clearing etc as I've never even held a handgun.
As an E1B owner living in a rather 'dodgy' area, particularly the station that I travel to and from work by (and I work shifts so it can be quite late), it's been invaluable, the E1B has (twice now) given me that little bit of an edge so that I came out of the altercation unscathed.
I've been considering the E2DL for a while but the E1B serves me well enough... Anything more would be overkill IMHO

 

[Styerman]

I suspect the E2DL is aimed at the civilian S/D market . They are a PITA to carry , lacerating both clothing and hands . Most department's and individual officers would tend to avoid something that carrys so much potential liability .

I would guess that the E1B is intended as a backup/utility lite for plainclothes and offduty officers . Think utility with a "Tactical" level output . Another bonus is that it doesn't destroy suit linings and pockets .

The whole "tactical " has been way oversold . My sole experience with it , involved lighting up an aggressive panhandler/crackhead with a Surefire M2 ( bout 120 lumens ) . Dude shielded his eyes with his right forearm for a few secs. It might have helped me put plan "B" into effect , but God help you if you didn't have a plan "B". Screaming like a schoolgirl an calling 911 doesn't count .

Chris

 

[Kestrel]

I suspect the E2DL is aimed at the civilian S/D market . They are a PITA to carry , lacerating both clothing and hands . Most department's and individual officers would tend to avoid something that carrys so much potential liability .

I would guess that the E1B is intended as a backup/utility lite for plainclothes and offduty officers . Think utility with a "Tactical" level output . Another bonus is that it doesn't destroy suit linings and pockets .

The whole "tactical " has been way oversold . My sole experience with it , involved lighting up an aggressive panhandler/crackhead with a Surefire M2 ( bout 120 lumens ) . Dude shielded his eyes with his right forearm for a few secs. It might have helped me put plan "B" into effect , but God help you if you didn't have a plan "B". Screaming like a schoolgirl an calling 911 doesn't count .

Chris

+1 on the liability, that's the first thing that occurs to me when I see strike bezels...
A big +1 on having a Plan B, which you have only a couple of seconds maximum to implement.

 

[TMedina]

I realize this will come back to haunt me, but - just about anything can be "tactical" - in the sense equipment that can be used (I add effectively) in a tactical manner.

Both lights can be used in a tactical manner with a better than average degree of efficiency and practicality. Both start with the high output setting, both feature good retainability - not great, but good. Both are easy to carry, although the "D" always annoyed me on a practical level.

I am of the firm opinion that Klingon bezels are solely the result of "tacticool" marketing and have little, if any, redeeming value.

On the subject of tactical lights, the E1B wouldn't be my primary light, but it can and would serve very well as a functional backup. Especially if you're trying to "blend".

Just my two bits.

-Trevor

 

[danpass]

"tactical" is just marketing-speak for 'increase the price'








definitely stick with a momentary switch for any ...... aggressive or potentially aggressive functions

 

[GlockDoc]

First, I really like my E1B. It's small size makes it easy to pocket carry. The high is good and since I work outdoors in a rural area, the low has just enough light with plenty of runtime, a good thing in a backup light.

In an urban environment with lots of ambient light the low might be too low. For a backup light the clickie works fine, though it should come with the tailstand feature. Even with the diffuser it wouldn't be my first choice for room clearing, though it would work in a pinch, hence the Backup name.

I have, however, put off getting the E2DL. I will instead get the LX2 for a 'tactical' light, even though the low is a bit too high for me and it gives up some runtime there, the 'momentary' switch is a must have for use with a handgun, and to me, throw slightly outweighs flood. I think that with the diffuser it will be adequate for the occasional room search, though my old 6P with a drop-in led really, er...shines in that respect.

 

[Size15's]

I suspect the E2DL is aimed at the civilian S/D market...
Chris

That's my impression too. Whilst "civilians" think they want a 'tactical' what they actually need is 'practical' and I think the E2DL achieves the look of the first and the function of the second.

 

[MaineChuck]

That's my impression too. Whilst "civilians" think they want a 'tactical' what they actually need is 'practical' and I think the E2DL achieves the look of the first and the function of the second.

Form follows function. I'm not using the light (E2DL) as a "tactical" light, I'm just an outdoorsman needing a good light. However, I do like the dual function of the E2DL, I'll live with the bezel. I dont see this bezel chewing up pants pockets or flesh for that matter(unless you "crown" somebody with it).
Just my two $.01

 

[Search]

I've never heard of a cop in my department or in the neighboring departments having an issue.

The only issue in a firefight is point or aim.

Think about this scenario. When police an SWAT enter a building to clear it they 99.5 % of the time have more than one person. Given there was only one, this STILL wouldn't be an issue.

When they clear something, the first guy is the only guy that uses a light. The guys in the back are strictly trained to not make a silhouette of the front man. They can use a light if they are smart enough.

They never turn their lights off. In a dark building shooting at a light isn't enough. Try it one day.

Now, if you were that guy. Wouldn't you want a light that you didn't have to worry about being on. It's always on. Twisting is impractical. Some of you might say it isn't. That doesn't mean everyone agrees.

I can name off scenario after scenario where the push on is better.

We have guys who have trained with LAPD SWAT. Those guys are considered the best at clearing buildings. Second to only the SEALS. They all use clickies.


The E2DL fits practical AND tactical because when you click it on, it goes to full power. No ramping or extra clicking. The practical comes into use when you click again in 2 seconds.

 

[TMedina]

LAPD SWAT is second only to the SEALS?

You learn something new every day. I hope the FBI HRT doesn't get their feelings hurt too badly by the news.

-Trevor

 

[Search]

LAPD SWAT is second only to the SEALS?

You learn something new every day. I hope the FBI HRT doesn't get their feelings hurt too badly by the news.

-Trevor

I said the LAPD SWAT is the best at clearing buildings second to only SEALS.

They all train together. A lot of tactical teams train with LAPD SWAT. Most military teams do. A SEAL that attended one of the training events told our SWAT instructor from all of his experience in the military and training with the LE side that the LAPD SWAT team was better than all, except the SEALS. They're almost entrirely trained in going into buildings, boats, etc.

I don't doubt teh HRT teams train with them too. It's a close nit community. They're all the good guys. If LE could use gernades like the military it would be more even

Either way, lets not hijack this thread