Flashlight for running at night under $25?

[Outdoorsman5]

Are you sure about that? I thought the main difference was that ANSI lumens are measured just like OTF lumens except that you had to wait a while before measuring, which allows the flashlight's output to settle down to its sustained level. Even most regulated flashlights are a bit brighter in the first few minutes, and this is usually what manufacturers (including 4Sevens and ZebraLight) that publish OTF lumens measure. The difference with the S2 Quarks is that 4Sevens used the ANSI standard for those--they are indeed brighter than the R5 versions, even though the published lumens will be lower.

That is how they are measured, but it said on 4sevens' website that the ANSI test was done with alkaline batteries. Yes I am sure that eneloops & lithium primaries runs brighter & longer especially compared to alkaline batteries. I think it's admirable that 4sevens tested their lights using the ANSI standard and using alkaline batteries. I bet most of their customers will use alkaline bats, but for those of us that know the benefits of eneloops & lithium primaries - we can squeeze more out of these lights.....nice.

The R5 has the same issue, only not quite as severe these days. While you stand a better chance of getting a good R5 than a good S2, there is still a really good chance of getting a bad one (I did :sigh, especially since 4Sevens is not selective about tints.

My experiences differs from yours. I have 4 R5 quarks, and all look the same (& they're not green.) The only S2 quark I have is green, and I'd bet MOST of the S2 quarks were green as reported over & over here on CPF. It was rare for someone to comment that they got a different tint than green on their quark S2.

The Cree-based ZebraLights use the R4 instead, and they seem to be selective about tints, so with their flashlights you stand a much better chance of avoiding the almost universally dreaded green tint (not that it matters all that much in real usage).

Zebralight is not producing lights with the R4 LED anymore, and haven't for some months now. They're using the XPG R5 in most of their lights, plus the XML in the SC600 & H600, and the Luxeon Rebel LED in the CRI lights. I agree that Zebralight is more selective with what tint they choose, and I love that about them.

It is if the regulation then drops down slightly for increased runtime. That's not necessarily done on purpose, by the way, but when you've looked at enough runtime/output graphs, you'll see the same thing over and over. "OTF" lumens are therefore accurate for those who primarily use their flashlights in brief bursts, although the cumulative runtime will be lower than what the tests show. And ANSI lumens are usually more accurate for those who use their flashlights in a more sustained manner, such as running all night. The differences aren't usually that big, but I think that's where the difference lies. If somebody knows for sure, then go ahead and speak up while we're on the subject.

I agree with you, but the Quarks are well regulated & run pretty flat (with a slight drop within the first few minutes.) Below is the R2 edition, but 4sevens uses the same buck/boost circuit on the R5 lights as well which means the R5 should perform the same as in this graph. I love regulated lights.

To the OP - please don't let these recent posts confuse you, and hope you've learned a few things. Sorry if the waters have been muddied

 

[Wrecked]

"To the OP - please don't let these recent posts confuse you, and hope you've learned a few things. Sorry if the waters have been muddied"

No problem. I'd like to really spend some time researching the lights and learning more (and I might in the future) but I'm hurting for time that's why I'm relying on the experts here.

 

[GaAslamp]

Those Zebralights are more expensive than the Quarks. I'm sure it isn't much $ for an enthusiast to spend but for me that's a lot of cash.

I understand (I'm also into astronomy and firearms , so flashlights seem pretty cheap to me--it's all relative ), but Quarks are very nearly as expensive--only a few bucks less. I like them fine, but for your (or rather your wife's) purpose, they are larger and heavier, which I think matters for a runner (if it didn't I would have suggested flashlights that ran on multiple C or D cells). In addition, ZebraLights are able to get more output and runtime from single-cell (common battery types) configurations, as well.

If they're all too expensive, then let me know what your absolute maximum is and I'll try to find the best match I can, although at less than say $50 I doubt I could find a better one than mattevt's suggestion of a Fenix E21.

they're all ~ $60 aren't they?

That's what I thought--they're all pricey, but offer tangible benefits (I wouldn't suggest a more expensive light if it didn't).

if that's too much, don't let all these recommendations for $60 lights mess you up. there are a lot of choices in the $30-40 range. and a few in the $20-30 range too. but in order to find the right light in the lower price ranges, you have to have a good idea about what you need from the flashlight.

The Fenix E21 offers 48 lumens for 11 hours--that should do it, I think, based on the discussion in this thread so far (unless other requirements come to light). It will be larger and heavier than some of the other recommendations, and its tail-switch is probably not ideal for a runner, but if that and cool white is alright with the OP, then I think it would be a great choice for the money. :thumbsup:

 

[robostudent5000]

don't know why she'd get mad at you since you're buying it for her. you'd think she'd be more appreciative.

if it was my wife, i'd get her a headlamp or some other hands free setup, and convince her it was the best thing for her.

but if your wife is dead set on a handheld, i'd get her a Fenix MC11. since we don't know exactly what she wants, this may not really work for her. but it has the following things going for it. it has an adjustable angling head that makes it very easy to hand hold in a comfortable running position. this feature is unique to this light, and as kramer5150 mentioned in a previous post, it allows the light to be aimed properly while held in an ergonomically correct position. it's also half made of plastic making it very light weight for it's size. the adjustable head and the light weight make the light more comfortable to run with than any other light i've tried.

also the medium should be around 40 lumens, which should be sufficient for most conditions as long as she isn't running really fast or the trail isn't too technical. if you use Eneloops with it, it'll run for about 5-6 hours on medium, which should get you through 3/4 of a summer night without a battery change. the battery is also easy to change out quickly. this light should not be used with alkalines. use Eneloops.

it's about $40 with discount codes at several places.

try goinggear.com and tell them cpf sent you.

 

[GaAslamp]

Those are all good questions. Here's what I know:

"it would help to know what she uses now"
>Anything around the house. I have a Dorcy, a mini mag and a $10 cheapy flashlight.

Could you be more specific--models if possible or whether they are LED or incandescent? How are each of those working out for your wife? I mean, what does SHE have to say about them?

"you really need to know how bright a light your wife wants"
>Neither of us have any idea. :sick2: Brighter is better, right?

Brighter is not necessarily always better--maximizing contrast is what you want, and sometimes that ironically requires less light in really dark areas. Does your wife think, based on her experiences, that she needs more light?

"how she plans on carrying it"
>She'll carry it in her hand

Has the idea of a headlamp been considered?

"whether she's comfortable changing batteries in the dark"
>I think she can handle it. She'll be with a friend who also has a light.

OK, although I think we should try to avoid that if possible (and for shorter runs, she'll have more of a margin, then).

"the type of trail she'll be running on is important too as well as how much ambient light will be available."
>Good question but we don't really know. Most of it will be in the woods, some deep woods.

If it's dark enough for people to be at least partially dark-adapted, then usually not much light is needed. Would a test run with some of your current flashlights be a possibility?

If we can stay in the $30-$40 range that's great. I just don't know what I give up by not spending $60.

Nothing much if their capabilities (e.g. small enough to be comfortable while worn on the head, neutral white tint) are not part of your wife's requirements.

Plus, if she figures out that I spent $60 she'll kick my ***.

I'd suggest running away, but she'd run you down, wouldn't she?

 

[Outdoorsman5]

As some are mentioning the 2XAA lights are a bit large, but the main reason I think they're a good option here is for the extra runtimes for running all night. If she uses lithium primaries then the light will weigh close to what a single AA light would weigh using an eneloop. The Quark AA2 R5 will run for 24 hours at 22 lumens which is bright enough plus plenty of juice left over if she were to use the higher levels some.

The Fenix E21 is an outstanding light as well, BUT it does not come with a pocket clip. Running with a light this size without a pocket clip is not comfortable because the light will turn sideways at the bottom of your pocket making it difficult to carry, plus it will bounce all around. To me a pocket clip is a must when running. The Quark AA2 clips in head down, and is held firmly in place.

 

[Wrecked]

I'll get some more info from her tonight and then update.

 

[MichaelW]

Lets reexamine the basic premise, is your wife going to run while holding & aiming the flashlight for 6 hours? Because if you get tired and drop it, you have to stop-go back, retrieve it and then try to get your cadence back. Just get a headlight, a cheap & ratty one. (by CPF standards)

You are going to have to be the proverbial drug dealer, the first taste is free... I imagine there will have to be some training before the big run, so maybe the 'disease' will grow, and so will the $ allocated.
http://www.energizerlightingproducts.com/productlines/energizer/Pages/HD7L33ODE.aspx
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/hd7l33ae.pdf
and after she gets hooked, then you pop for a Fenix headband, and something to fill one or both sides.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nix-Headband&p=3107030&viewfull=1#post3107030

Here honey, I bought you these lithium AAA EA92's

 

[Wrecked]

Lets reexamine the basic premise, is your wife going to run while holding & aiming the flashlight for 6 hours? Because if you get tired and drop it, you have to stop-go back, retrieve it and then try to get your cadence back. Just get a headlight, a cheap & ratty one. (by CPF standards)

You are going to have to be the proverbial drug dealer, the first taste is free... I imagine there will have to be some training before the big run, so maybe the 'disease' will grow, and so will the $ allocated.
http://www.energizerlightingproducts.com/productlines/energizer/Pages/HD7L33ODE.aspx
http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/hd7l33ae.pdf
and after she gets hooked, then you pop for a Fenix headband, and something to fill one or both sides.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nix-Headband&p=3107030&viewfull=1#post3107030

Here honey, I bought you these lithium AAA EA92's

She has a head lamp (albeit a crappy one). She likes the handheld because she doesn't have to move her head different directions to see stuff.

Question: Most of the flashlights have a low, med and high setting; or at least a low and high. Say one flashlight has x lumens for 5 hours and another has y lumens for 5 hours. Well, I don't know which of the 2 flashlights to pick because I don't know the minimum lumens necessary in the woods. I don't want to get one that lasts the amount of time needed but the light is so dim she can't see her feet.
So what's the lowest to go?

EDIT: Did that make any sense whatsoever?

I'm looking at these that will last the whole 5 hours
MC11 - 38 lumens for 6 hours
E21 - 48 for 11 hours
Quark AA2 - 85 lumens for 5 hours (a bit pricey)

Would 38 lumens be enough? I think it should be from what I've read - just want to be sure.

And what the heck is this cool white stuff? ACK! I'm learning more but getting more confused at the same time. LOL.

 

[robostudent5000]

She has a head lamp (albeit a crappy one). She likes the handheld because she doesn't have to move her head different directions to see stuff.

she needs a better headlamp. one that has a wider beam to cover more of her field of view. if the headlamp's coverage is adequate, she shouldn't have to turn as much to shine a light on what she wants to see. check out this thread for guidance.

Would 38 lumens be enough? or Should I stay at a higher range.

that's something you and your wife will have to figure out. 30-40 lumens is enough for most fast walking/ slow jogging on average trails. for faster running and messier trails, you'll probably need more. it really depends on what the conditions are and what the individual is capable of getting away with.

having said that, 30-40 lumens is a good amount of light. it's enough to light up 20-30 feet of ground in front of you with a decent amount of detail. and the way our eyes work, it's hard to tell the difference between 40 lumens and 60 lumens anyway. so i wouldn't worry about small differences in output.

what you need to figure out is the kind of conditions she'll be running in and what she needs the light for. for example, if it turns out she's running on smooth, flat, manicured trails, and she just needs enough light to see which trails to take, that's totally different from running on rocky, uneven trails, where she can't be sure of her footing, and needs enough light to assess trail conditions. for the first scenario, she might only need 10 lumens and tint and beam quality may not matter. for the second scenario, she might need 100 lumens AND need the beam to be warm and floody for enhanced contrast and depth perception.

one short cut you can take is to find someone who's run that race before and ask them what they used.

 

[GaAslamp]

As some are mentioning the 2XAA lights are a bit large, but the main reason I think they're a good option here is for the extra runtimes for running all night. If she uses lithium primaries then the light will weigh close to what a single AA light would weigh using an eneloop. The Quark AA2 R5 will run for 24 hours at 22 lumens which is bright enough plus plenty of juice left over if she were to use the higher levels some.

That's a valid point, although if you're going to use lithium primaries, then the ZebraLight SC31 is smaller and lighter than the average 1xAA flashlight (or the average 1xCR123A flashlight, for that matter), much less a 2xAA flashlight, and it can run for 23 hours @ 24 lumens, which is similar, as well as 12 hours @ 43 lumens in case you need additional light. :twothumbs Simply double-click from Off to go directly to Medium mode, and then double-click to toggle between these two levels while the flashlight is on.

The Fenix E21 is an outstanding light as well, BUT it does not come with a pocket clip. Running with a light this size without a pocket clip is not comfortable because the light will turn sideways at the bottom of your pocket making it difficult to carry, plus it will bounce all around. To me a pocket clip is a must when running.

I thought you could easily add a clip, but I can't seem to find one available, and it would cut into the cost savings anyway, so you have a good point. There are some holsters that would work, but on a limited budget I'd rather put the money toward a better flashlight that comes with a clip.

 

[GaAslamp]

Question: Most of the flashlights have a low, med and high setting; or at least a low and high. Say one flashlight has x lumens for 5 hours and another has y lumens for 5 hours. Well, I don't know which of the 2 flashlights to pick because I don't know the minimum lumens necessary in the woods. I don't want to get one that lasts the amount of time needed but the light is so dim she can't see her feet.

That's why I suggested a test run under similar conditions with the flashlights you already own. The more experienced among us (not me with regard to running at night) can provide general guidelines, but there are so many aspects to consider (e.g. speed, ambient light, trail conditions, etc.), including the individual runner.

I'm looking at these that will last the whole 5 hours
MC11 - 38 lumens for 6 hours
E21 - 48 for 11 hours
Quark AA2 - 85 lumens for 5 hours (a bit pricey)

Would 38 lumens be enough? I think it should be from what I've read - just want to be sure.

It is usually enough (even more than enough), but not under all conditions and for every runner. Experimenting with a cheap incandescent 6V lantern would give us a decent starting point--if that's not enough, then 38 lumens probably wouldn't be, either. On the other hand, if a cheap old 2D flashlight is enough, then as little as 15 lumens could suffice.

And what the heck is this cool white stuff? ACK! I'm learning more but getting more confused at the same time. LOL.

I apologize for adding to your torment. I'm sure you would be enjoying this if you weren't in a bit of a hurry. We talked about tints a little early on in passing, and "cool white" is the very "white-white" that most LED flashlights output, usually appearing bluish next to standard incandescent flashlights (and some LEDs actually are rather bluish or "cooler" in tint). "Neutral white" (the tint of the flashlights you had selected initially) is closer to the tint of incandescent lights, but less yellowish. For more information, read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature

In the LED world (it's different for fluorescent lighting), cool white is generally anything at 5000K or above, neutral white is around 4000K, and warm white is around 3000K, give or take (very similar to incandescent in tint). Cool white LEDs have the greatest output and efficiency, but sometimes contrast can suffer depending on what you're looking at. Some would argue that neutral white is superior for running at night since it provides better contrast while viewing the ground (e.g. browns and greens are easier to distinguish), but there are others who disagree.

 

[Outdoorsman5]

That's a valid point, although if you're going to use lithium primaries, then the ZebraLight SC31 is smaller and lighter than the average 1xAA flashlight (or the average 1xCR123A flashlight, for that matter), much less a 2xAA flashlight, and it can run for 23 hours @ 24 lumens, which is similar, as well as 12 hours @ 43 lumens in case you need additional light. :twothumbs Simply double-click from Off to go directly to Medium mode, and then double-click to toggle between these two levels while the flashlight is on.

That's a great point!!!! And is much smaller!!!!

 

[Wrecked]

We're going to take the lights we have now and test them tonight.

 

[mattevt]

The MC11 is a neat little light. Only one AA. Drop in a lithium primary to lower the weight (will add up over 5 hours of running ) and increase the run time. 43 plus ship at Amazon.

 

[Melchior]

You know; 150+ LM for 25$ should be possible.

I'd doubt a headlamp would be cheap enough.

Try something like this:

http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...ht-cree-q3-180lumen-led-flashlight-4aa-p-4357

(Yes, yes, generic clone of ... something... quality ~UNKNOWN~ Whaddya want for 25 ? Perfection ain't cheap)

 

[mattevt]

You know; 150+ LM for 25$ should be possible.

I'd doubt a headlamp would be cheap enough.

Try something like this:

http://www.manafont.com/product_inf...ht-cree-q3-180lumen-led-flashlight-4aa-p-4357

(Yes, yes, generic clone of ... something... quality ~UNKNOWN~ Whaddya want for 25 ? Perfection ain't cheap)

That light takes 4 AA's, quite cumbersome to run with. Also run time is of importance.

 

[Wrecked]

Ok. I've got a little more info.

The trails: high elevation, rooted, rocky, technical trails. She'll probably be running 10 minute miles.

Here are the flashlights we have around the house that she's tried.

Eveready Model RCL1NM1 - bright center is good but it but it's really narrow (not floody enough?).

Mini Mag light AA - Her words: "sucks".

Dorcy 41-4260 LED 80 lumen - She likes how wide the lighted area was. The brightness was "ok". The head lamp she has is real focused so this one was nice to see a larger area of the trail.


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She doesn't like the form factor of the MC 11.

The Quark AA2 is probably the best because it can do 85 lumens for 5 hours. However, the price is a little steep (especially when I want to buy one now too!) :naughty:

The E21 looks good price-wise but it only gives off 48 lumens on the lower setting. The higher setting won't last long enough. Based on her thoughts about the Dorcy above I'm not sure 48 lumens would be enough....

Did that help at all?

Thanks everyone!

 

[robostudent5000]

the Dorcy's output is probably overstated, so 50-60 should be fine.

if she's okay with a regular handheld light, i recommend the Fenix LD25. given the trail conditions, the neutral tint will come in handy.

what headlamp does she have?

 

[Wrecked]

the Dorcy's output is probably overstated, so 50-60 should be fine.

if she's okay with a regular handheld light, i recommend the Fenix LD25. given the trail conditions, the neutral tint will come in handy.

what headlamp does she have?

I just pulled it out. It's a Tikka 2 Petzl. I think it has 40 lumens.