High Output R2 P60 drop in .

[Sgt. LED]

Now you see, this thread is just awesome for all of us.

I look forward to the results on everything's testing! Good luck guys.

 

[Justin Case]

Yeah , im not worried about having it tested , just having it killed !

I should have some Diamond Dragons on the way , so having a true scale to work from would be a bonus , rather than guesstimating .

So what happened to the big boast in post 21:

Killing R2's , last thing Im worried about , I ran this one for 5 minutes on high and the head got warm , but the body was still cool , the LED is nice and yellow . No hint of color change in the output color .

My Mini MC-E runs about o.75A to 0.9A on medium and 0.15A to 0.2A on Lo , nothing to fear there . Again , if they die [ CR123 ] , no big deal . + I dont run Hi as a rule , Med puts out plenty of light . + Its a small price to pay for first hand knowledge .

Id rather be a do'er !

Or post 24:

I used to go through Bulbs in my maglites like they were candy ..

Always ran bulbs a little lower in voltage to get more output ..

2D bulbs in my 3D and 3D/4D bulbs in my 6D ... The 6D , well the 3D bulbs lasted just once , turn it of and on again and they were gone , the 4D bulbs lasted about 20 to 30 minutes .

These cree's , are just the bees knees .. 50-000 hours who needs that , IM a hardcore computer overclocker , pushing cree's is much cheaper

Now I see what happens when the rubber meets the road.

That said, I believe that bigchelis is incorrect when he said "PM me if you want real lumen readings and not paper math readings". You have made real readings, comparing before vs after in some sort of homemade lightbox (same as described in flashlightreviews.com?). They aren't lumens readings, but on a relative basis, they should be reliable.

What is poorly documented is your experimental procedure, which IMO is the proverbial fly in the oinment. Plus, your continued reference to your PWM controller as a boost-buck gives me pause that you really know what you are doing. Your statement at the time that voltage doesn't matter, only amps when using your so-called boost-buck driver also indicates a level of inexperience. Voltage does matter since a DC-DC converter needs to generate the power required to be delivered to the LED. If you have a constant current driver rated, for example, at 1000mA forward current, feeding an LED with Vf of 3.5V requires that the driver generate 3.5W of power. If the Vbatt is 3.5V, and driver efficiency is 100% (for simplicity), then Ibatt=1A. If Vbatt=1.75V, then Ibatt=2A (assuming that the "boost-buck driver" can operate in regulation at these levels). But the forward current to the LED remains the same.

 

[old4570]

So what happened to the big boast in post 21:



Or post 24:



Now I see what happens when the rubber meets the road.

That said, I believe that bigchelis is incorrect when he said "PM me if you want real lumen readings and not paper math readings". You have made real readings, comparing before vs after in some sort of homemade lightbox (same as described in flashlightreviews.com?). They aren't lumens readings, but on a relative basis, they should be reliable.

What is poorly documented is your experimental procedure, which IMO is the proverbial fly in the oinment. Plus, your continued reference to your PWM controller as a boost-buck gives me pause that you really know what you are doing. Your statement at the time that voltage doesn't matter, only amps when using your so-called boost-buck driver also indicates a level of inexperience. Voltage does matter since a DC-DC converter needs to generate the power required to be delivered to the LED. If you have a constant current driver rated, for example, at 1000mA forward current, feeding an LED with Vf of 3.5V requires that the driver generate 3.5W of power. If the Vbatt is 3.5V, and driver efficiency is 100% (for simplicity), then Ibatt=1A. If Vbatt=1.75V, then Ibatt=2A (assuming that the "boost-buck driver" can operate in regulation at these levels). But the forward current to the LED remains the same.

:thinking:


The driver is linked : Its a SSC MC-E driver / controller from KD , Im not confused about what driver Im using , ProductId=1845

My L2 R2 Mini has a buck boost driver installed , I was just talking about it in passing ... Also from KD - Do you need a link ?

Voltage did not matter in the CR123A test ... It was not the important part of the test ,

Im not sure who's confused here ?

But Im rather sure that , yes , poorly documented , my bad , I guess Im bad at explaining stuff , when people are left confused .

The gist was , try this driver with a R2 , Im getting like 30% gains , for $15 it could be a nice upgrade . [ Driver/controller + Pill ]

Yes I will send this pill to the USA , why the heck not ?
Now , another consideration is power delivery from the batt , the better the batt , the better my cree . If a batt cant deliver 1.8A @ the tail , the cree wont glow as well .. Still , knowing what it does at a known current level should be real nice .

My humble collection of 18650 , deliver from a lowly 1.15A right up to 1.8A @ the tail , so using a batt with low output , will deliver low performance .
What are these low output batts , ?

Ultrafire BRC 18650 3000mAh [ The new red ones ] Very poor output .
:wave: Big Boast ? , killing Cree's , you must understand , if I kill one its ok , if some one else kills it ??? Not the same thing !
Bit like kicking a dog , its ok when you kick your own dog , some one else kicks your dog , all you want to do is cut of the offending foot , mince it , and feed it to your dog ...

 

[Justin Case]

KD ProductID=1845:

- Accepts one Li-ion (e.g. 18650)
- Direct drive P7 LED
- 10% 45% 100%
- High frenqency (sic) PWM

For the L2 Mini, how is it somehow providing variable current? Does it have a pot that you can adjust? Otherwise, it seems more like direct drive to me. Or, it's just a grossly inefficient buck driver that doesn't reach regulation until the voltage overhead above Vf is satisfied. Until then, it runs direct drive. That would explain the results for 1xCR123A vs 1x18650. The 1xCR123A is running DD since a CR123A under a 1A or higher load is going to sag to around 2.5V, while the R2 Vf is probably around 3.5V. The 1x18650 is running in regulation, or perhaps semi-regulation (some DC-DC converters have a "safe" mode where the IC runs in a quasi-regulated fashion). Let's say that this L2 Mini driver is rated to output 1000mA forward current. The 1xCR123A doesn't make it there in DD, so you get less output. The 1x18650 runs in regulation, so the LED sees the full forward current and runs brighter. So you aren't overdriving your R2 at all. You are underdriving it with the 1xCR123A and your high tail current measurements are because the driver sucks wind.

Unless you have some forward current data, your conclusions are premature about overdriving your R2s successfully. It isn't clear to me that you are overdriving the R2 at all.

Is your KD L2 Mini R2 this one: ProductID=6754?

The one that says "Drop-in LED Circuit Direct Drive"?

And when you talk about your Solarforce L2 MC-E, is it this one:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228452

where you clearly state that "I decided to swap drivers due to the low current draw , 1.23A on Hi just reeks of nasty .
SSC P7 Li-ion 5-mode driver SKU: S005025 over at KD / ProductId=1845"?

Again, it looks suspiciously like a Direct Drive PWM Controller to me.

Voltage did not matter in the CR123A test ... It was not the important part of the test ,

Of course it matters for a "boost-buck" driver, as I explained already. Tail current draw != LED forward current.

killing Cree's , you must understand , if I kill one its ok , if some one else kills it ??? Not the same thing !

Somehow I missed your caveats the first time around. Rubber is really meeting the road now.

 

[old4570]

Im sorry , but your mixing stuff up , and I dont want to be rude about it ...


My L2 R2 Mini with buck boost driver = ProductId=5313 @ KD
Had nothing to do with CR123A test , or anything else for that matter . So I cant understand why your going on about it ?

It seems to me your mixing stuff up and then trying to shove it down my throat , so why dont you go bother some one else .


Matt

 

[Justin Case]

Im sorry , but your mixing stuff up , and I dont want to be rude about it ...


My L2 R2 Mini with buck boost driver = ProductId=5313 @ KD
Had nothing to do with CR123A test , or anything else for that matter . So I cant understand why your going on about it ?

It seems to me your mixing stuff up and then trying to shove it down my throat , so why dont you go bother some one else .


Matt

Don't think I'm mixing anything up.

The driver is linked : Its a SSC MC-E driver / controller from KD , Im not confused about what driver Im using , ProductId=1845

My L2 R2 Mini has a buck boost driver installed , I was just talking about it in passing ... Also from KD - Do you need a link ?

KD ProductID=1845 is a direct drive PWM controller, not any sort of boost-buck driver.

The L2 R2 Mini also is listed as using direct drive. You played coy asking "Do you need a link?" instead of just providing it. So I had to guess at which L2 R2 Mini you use.

Now you tell us that you are using a different DRIVER, KD ProductID=5313, presumably in the L2 R2 Mini. Well guess what? Here is the key spec:

Output Current: 1A

At lower input voltages, such as below 2.7V, where a single 123A might sag to, the user comments make it clear that the board does not deliver the full 1A.

So, just as I speculated, you are underdriving the R2 with your 123A, and driving it right at 1A with your 18650.

There is no magic, not amazing overdriving with no overheating, nothing.

This board isn't even a boost-buck driver. It is a constant voltage boost-constant current linear regulator. So as the input voltage gets higher and higher above Vf, you are simply just wasting that battery input as heat because that's how a linear regulator works.

And of course, we see that measuring battery voltage does matter because if a driver is really running in regulation then Pbatt1 = Pbatt2, i.e., Vbatt1 * Ibatt1 = Vbatt2 * Ibatt2.

QED.