High Output R2 P60 drop in .

[old4570]

For 16340-size cells, the only way I would overdrive the R2 at the level you favor is to use IMRs. For regular LiCoO2 chemistry, IMO you are going to kill the Li-ion cells very rapidly by driving them at 3C-4C discharge rate. I also think that high junction temperature is going to kill your R2 LEDs very rapidly.

Killing R2's , last thing Im worried about , I ran this one for 5 minutes on high and the head got warm , but the body was still cool , the LED is nice and yellow . No hint of color change in the output color .

My Mini MC-E runs about o.75A to 0.9A on medium and 0.15A to 0.2A on Lo , nothing to fear there . Again , if they die [ CR123 ] , no big deal . + I dont run Hi as a rule , Med puts out plenty of light . + Its a small price to pay for first hand knowledge .

Id rather be a do'er !

I still have the second fastest Phenom 9850 on HWbot .
That reminds me ......

 

[kramer5150]

Id rather be a do'er !

Nothing wrong with that, just be prepared to cook a lot of LEDs, if you let them run for long periods like I did... My cheap Husky spotlight was a fun little thing while it lasted .

 

[Sgt. LED]

In quests like these most of us have killed our share of emitters.

Keep going!

 

[old4570]

I used to go through Bulbs in my maglites like they were candy ..

Always ran bulbs a little lower in voltage to get more output ..

2D bulbs in my 3D and 3D/4D bulbs in my 6D ... The 6D , well the 3D bulbs lasted just once , turn it of and on again and they were gone , the 4D bulbs lasted about 20 to 30 minutes .

These cree's , are just the bees knees .. 50-000 hours who needs that , IM a hardcore computer overclocker , pushing cree's is much cheaper

Still fondly remember running 2.5ghz when most were dreaming of doing 2ghz , still have that XP2100 chip [ worthless now ] . Used to overclock everything , the Mouse / Graphics Card / CD Burner / DVD Burner / CPU / RAM / MB / everything on the edge for max performance .

 

[kramer5150]

I have a question reguarding the second board(NJG-18). It's suppose to have a drive voltage of .8-7v.But this link says "if the output setting is exceeded by the input it will go in to direct drive". http://e-lectronics.net/boost-driver-board-input-voltage-8v7v-njg18-p-422.html Does this mean that it will run at 4.2v on a li-ion? Won't that kill the led?

thats a good question... IIRC there is an older thread discussing this board, and I think this issue was discussed too, but I can't remember specifics.

I was unaware of this trait, so thanks for pointing it out. I think I am going to use this board in my lowes task force, with a 2-C/NiMH setup. The sub~3.6Vin should be easier on the LED.

 

[Justin Case]

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/231340

Most likely, the LED will be able to withstand the brief exposure to 4.2V, and the 1xLi-ion should quickly sag down to under 4.0V, settling to the usual 3.7V (or less), especially if you are using 16340s. If you are using 18650s, the sag will be less pronounced and the slope shallower.

I tried this with a SSC P4 driven by a BBNG1000 boost driver and it worked fine for the brief time I ran the test. But I had the benefit of being able to discuss the driver characteristics with the designer, which you won't get with these cheap Chinese driver boards.

 

[old4570]

OK here we go ...

Measured @ the tail [ Random 18650 ] 1.46A
Measured to the Cree 1.31A [ actually saw 1.34A ]

Driver loss = 150ma or 10%

So , if we measure 1.8A+ @ the tail less 10% , = 1.6A + to the cree R2

 

[bigchelis]

OK here we go ...

Measured @ the tail [ Random 18650 ] 1.46A
Measured to the Cree 1.31A [ actually saw 1.34A ]

Driver loss = 150ma or 10%

So , if we measure 1.8A+ @ the tail less 10% , = 1.6A + to the cree R2

With those high numbers on an R2 you are likely gettting 150 Lumens. Seriously; From helping MrGman test several R2's, K2's, and Diamond Dragons. The high current(1A plus) in a P60 hosts just doesn't work. You could easily get 1.4A at the tail w/R2 in a 6P, but you will not get close to 200 lumens.

FYI: The only lights that got 200 plus lumens using an R2 were the ones set a 1A.

1. The Tiablo A10 R2 = 245 Lumens
2. The 1D Mag R2 at 1A =180 Lumens
3. The Dereelight 1.2A R2 = 200 Lumens
4. The Dereelight 1A R2 = 220 lumens.

For some reason the R2's we tested with over 1A of current suffered in the Lumens department. I wish more current meant more lumens, but so far it doesn't.

If you want to prove me wrong. PM me and you can send me that P60 drop-in and we can test it in a 6P w/UCL lens and IMR 18650 cells.:thumbsup:

FYI: The Deft "The longest thrower in the world" MrGman got 200 lumens out of it!!!!!!!!!


Thanks,
Jose

 

[tx101]

FYI: The Deft "The longest thrower in the world" MrGman got 200 lumens out of it!!!!!!!!!

Must be that copper heatsink/pill the R2 sits on .... sucking away all that heat

 

[bigchelis]

Must be that copper heatsink/pill the R2 sits on .... sucking away all that heat

That definietly helped.

The aspheric ID Mag R2 I have lost about 20% of its lumens with the KD aspheric vs. LOP Reflector.

The Deft uses a 2 lens system which makes it not loose as that much of its lumens. Assume the extra lens gives the Deft a net loss of 10% lumens using an apheric system.

That puts the LED lumens at around 220~240 Lumens, but only 200 out the front. Still; I think I may have to sell one of my babies (Aspheric Mags) to help fund the purchase of my own deft.. I would ask that my Deft R2 be driven at 1.2A only and I bet the results of this light tested would be interesting for all.

Jose

 

[old4570]

With those high numbers on an R2 you are likely gettting 150 Lumens. Seriously; From helping MrGman test several R2's, K2's, and Diamond Dragons. The high current(1A plus) in a P60 hosts just doesn't work. You could easily get 1.4A at the tail w/R2 in a 6P, but you will not get close to 200 lumens.

FYI: The only lights that got 200 plus lumens using an R2 were the ones set a 1A.

1. The Tiablo A10 R2 = 245 Lumens
2. The 1D Mag R2 at 1A =180 Lumens
3. The Dereelight 1.2A R2 = 200 Lumens
4. The Dereelight 1A R2 = 220 lumens.

For some reason the R2's we tested with over 1A of current suffered in the Lumens department. I wish more current meant more lumens, but so far it doesn't.

If you want to prove me wrong. PM me and you can send me that P60 drop-in and we can test it in a 6P w/UCL lens and IMR 18650 cells.:thumbsup:

FYI: The Deft "The longest thrower in the world" MrGman got 200 lumens out of it!!!!!!!!!


Thanks,
Jose

Well , its only my highest output R2 I own .. It exceeds all my Stock R2's , as for 1A , I have a R2 hooked up to a 1A buck boost driver and in my light box its doing 12000Lux , VS 16000+ Lux for this one .

I have another R2 drop in ordered + more drivers/controllers + some Diamond Dragons .... + It depends on the battery used .. Not all my 18650 can do 1.8A at the tail , only the non protected blue generics I got with my L2's can deliver such current .

Still , sounds interesting , I have another that can do 15000Lux with the same driver / batt combo , hmmm , :thinking:

PS/ Its only $15 USD to build your own , the postage would add up to that shipping it there n back ..

As for proof , I got a 30% gain in light output , from changing drivers , so thats my claim ! and my proof .
As for actual output ? I dont know , what can a R2 do when fed 1.6A ? Answere = 30% more .
I have changed drivers on two R2 pills so far , and both have increased output , I dont know what more to say .
I will do a 3rd as soon as the pill and drivers arrive , and then I will do some Diamond Dragons with the same driver/controller , and the DD are rated for 2A , so be interesting to see if they can do 2A or not .. and the DD are rated very high @ 2A .

 

[Justin Case]

I suspect that the difference is that in one case, you have severe overdriving using direct drive (based on other posts, the "driver" being used is just a PWM controller -- it is not a buck-boost driver). So the LED really is seeing very high forward current.

For the other cases, we don't know what forward current the LED is really seeing. It is advertised as 1.0A or 1.2A or whatever. But was it actually measured? Probably not.

 

[old4570]

I suspect that the difference is that in one case, you have severe overdriving using direct drive (based on other posts, the "driver" being used is just a PWM controller -- it is not a buck-boost driver). So the LED really is seeing very high forward current.

For the other cases, we don't know what forward current the LED is really seeing. It is advertised as 1.0A or 1.2A or whatever. But was it actually measured? Probably not.

Neither do I ... My claim is = Better than stock .. What I need is a known output to compare too ...

Even then , there is a certain amount of variable involved .

CREE MC-E K Bin (370-430 Lumens @ 350ma) 370Lumen @ 1.4A / 1.6A = 422Lumen Not forgetting this is minimum and could be 60 lumen out .
Mine is K-bin so it could be 422 to 480 with a fresh batt . ill just take the lens off , stuff in a batt that does 1.8A and see what the light box sais .

 

[Justin Case]

An MC-E, presumably wired in 4P, is not being overdriven at 1.8A measured at the tail. It is underdriven, and by a fair amount. Thus, it is a completely different case than a Cree R2 at 1.8A.

However, since it is my understanding that you are using direct drive, the forward current is vastly different for the MC-E vs R2 at the same forward voltage. Thus, you may draw far more than 1.8A at the tail when direct driving the MC-E, depending on the quality of the 18650 cells.

 

[old4570]

An MC-E, presumably wired in 4P, is not being overdriven at 1.8A measured at the tail. It is underdriven, and by a fair amount. Thus, it is a completely different case than a Cree R2 at 1.8A.

However, since it is my understanding that you are using direct drive, the forward current is vastly different for the MC-E vs R2 at the same forward voltage. Thus, you may draw far more than 1.8A at the tail when direct driving the MC-E, depending on the quality of the 18650 cells.

Naa , those nos is for CR123A ... Highest output is around 1.8A

With a 18650 , it goes up to 2.35A @ the tail ...
In anyway , as its under driven , the nos should be more accurate , so if I take a light box reading , and then compare to cree math , it should be somewhere in the region of + or - 60Lumen , and since were working on minimum cree output it should be the reading , and possibly then some .

After two readings , the average is 0.016 Lumen per lux . For my light box , and this is minimum . So out the front , my R2 is doing , @ 16400Lux x 0.016 = 262Lumen , Minimum . Working from a K bin MC-E @ minimum output .

Im still charging a 18650 to full capacity to see what reading is offered less lens .. [ 262L is out the front of my 501B ] with a 18650 @ 4.2v / 1.8A

 

[bigchelis]

Naa , those nos is for CR123A ... Highest output is around 1.8A

With a 18650 , it goes up to 2.35A @ the tail ...
In anyway , as its under driven , the nos should be more accurate , so if I take a light box reading , and then compare to cree math , it should be somewhere in the region of + or - 60Lumen , and since were working on minimum cree output it should be the reading , and possibly then some .

After two readings , the average is 0.016 Lumen per lux . For my light box , and this is minimum . So out the front , my R2 is doing , @ 16400Lux x 0.016 = 262Lumen , Minimum . Working from a K bin MC-E @ minimum output .

Im still charging a 18650 to full capacity to see what reading is offered less lens .. [ 262L is out the front of my 501B ] with a 18650 @ 4.2v / 1.8A

For Proof I offer you to send me your P60 drop-in and I will ask MrGman to test it for actual lumen output. MrGman has a lab sphere at work that test for lumens. He can test it for me.

Send me the drop-in you say makes over 250 Lumens and I will even pay you your costs: just to prove one way or another.
FYI: some drop-ins have died while testing ( Dont survive 5 minute runtimes with no hands). If this happens to yours I will cover you for your loss.

PM me if you want real lumen readings and not paper math readings

 

[Sgt. LED]

The gauntlet has been officially tossed.
Will the hat now be thrown over the wall?

This is exciting. Even if it's not doing what you believe it is you will have hard numbers to use as a benchmark for all your further efforts! You could change something, tweak a part, and re-test to see exactly what it did to the output. Different epoxy, solder, heatsink material, wire length/type, battery choice, you name it! You could lead us all to the very best of each type of component used if you really wanted to get involved and work at it. You could be the CPF's MVP.

If I lived near Gman I'd have him test everything I have, just so I could know the real difference between what I was told the output was on something I bought and what I actually got. I bet it would be enlightening.

 

[old4570]

For Proof I offer you to send me your P60 drop-in and I will ask MrGman to test it for actual lumen output. MrGman has a lab sphere at work that test for lumens. He can test it for me.

Send me the drop-in you say makes over 250 Lumens and I will even pay you your costs: just to prove one way or another.
FYI: some drop-ins have died while testing ( Dont survive 5 minute runtimes with no hands). If this happens to yours I will cover you for your loss.

PM me if you want real lumen readings and not paper math readings

Im testing the 2 Modified R2 drop ins ATM , 2nd one did 16500Lux @ a much lower Amp reading .. [ No lens ] So I just might send one there to see . Just working out which is 2nd best ATM ..

 

[old4570]

The gauntlet has been officially tossed.
Will the hat now be thrown over the wall?

This is exciting. Even if it's not doing what you believe it is you will have hard numbers to use as a benchmark for all your further efforts! You could change something, tweak a part, and re-test to see exactly what it did to the output. Different epoxy, solder, heatsink material, wire length/type, battery choice, you name it! You could lead us all to the very best of each type of component used if you really wanted to get involved and work at it. You could be the CPF's MVP.

If I lived near Gman I'd have him test everything I have, just so I could know the real difference between what I was told the output was on something I bought and what I actually got. I bet it would be enlightening.

Yeah , im not worried about having it tested , just having it killed !

I should have some Diamond Dragons on the way , so having a true scale to work from would be a bonus , rather than guesstimating .

 

[bigchelis]

The gauntlet has been officially tossed.
Will the hat now be thrown over the wall?

This is exciting. Even if it's not doing what you believe it is you will have hard numbers to use as a benchmark for all your further efforts! You could change something, tweak a part, and re-test to see exactly what it did to the output. Different epoxy, solder, heatsink material, wire length/type, battery choice, you name it! You could lead us all to the very best of each type of component used if you really wanted to get involved and work at it. You could be the CPF's MVP.

If I lived near Gman I'd have him test everything I have, just so I could know the real difference between what I was told the output was on something I bought and what I actually got. I bet it would be enlightening.

MrGman lives about 2 miles down the road from me. At first he was using his work sphere for readings, but now he has a home made version calibrated to his work version because many of the high lumen applications have big bezels that just don't fit in his work lab. His home version is dead on and it allows him to test the big lights.

And yes, he has tested all of my lights!!!!!!!!! I really cant thank him enough..

FYI: I have the LED Zepplin 3 P7 M6 drop-in!!!!!!!!!!!! If all goes well he will be testing that bad boy on Sunday or Monday.
Also, Nailbender sent me a 3D Mag w/4 "C" NiMH running a Diamond Dragon at 2.5~2.6A. It uses the P7 Electrolumens heatsink and if all goes well
readings will be a usefull tool for all to see.


Jose