I broke down and got a Blu-Ray

[da.gee]

Hey Lux,

I found this list on the Internet so it must be true (Googled "must have blu-ray titles"). Site is a home theater forum. He had some Oppo banners which immediately gives him credibility. Food for thought at least.

Reference Quality 'Must-Have' Blu-ray Discs

Want to see how good home theater can look and sound? Use these discs! They represent the absolute best audio and video quality that 1080p Blu-ray has to offer. Every movie collection must have a handful of these films! To make the list the disc must have a combined audio/video score of at least 9/10.

Forrest Gump Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Monsters, Inc. Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Negotiator Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
North by Northwest Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Tinker Bell and the Lost Treasure Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
Up Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Monsters vs. Aliens Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Drag me to Hell Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Wizard of Oz: 70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Dexter: The Complete Third Season Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
X-Men Origins: Wolverine Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Braveheart Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Crank 2: High Voltage Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Let the Right One In (Magnolia) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Lost Season 1 (Buena Vista) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Coraline (Universal) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (Sony) Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Fast & Furious (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Glory (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Watchmen: Director's Cut (Warner) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Knowing (Summit) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Generation Kill (HBO) Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Miracle (Walt Disney) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Greatest Game Ever Played (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Air Force One Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
A Bug's Life Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (Paramount) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Seabiscuit (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Dexter: The Complete Second Season (Paramount) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Day the Earth Stood Still (2008) (Fox) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Sin City (Buena Vista) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
X-Men: The Last Stand (Special Edition) (Fox) Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
X2: X-Men United (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Slumdog Millionare (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Quantum of Solace (MGM) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Transporter 3 (Lionsgate) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Fast and the Furious Trilogy (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Bolt (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Punisher: War Zone (Lionsgate) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Chronicles of Riddick (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Australia (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Pinocchio (1940) (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Body of Lies (Warner) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Live From Abbey Road: Best Of Season One Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (Paramount) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Rent: Filmed Live on Broadway (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Dexter: The Complete First Season (Paramount) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Zodiac: Director's Cut (Paramount) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
King Kong (2005) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Band of Brothers (HBO) Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Eagle Eye (Paramount) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Baraka Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Horton Hears a Who! (2008) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Wanted (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Dark Knight (Warner) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Tropic Thunder (DreamWorks) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Wall-E (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Kung Fu Panda (DreamWorks) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Tinker Bell (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Sleeping Beauty (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Incredible Hulk (2008) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Strangers (2008) (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Ultimate Matrix Collection (Warner) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Eastern Promises (Universal) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Shrek the Third Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Kill Bill Vol. 2 Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Kill Bill Vol. 1 Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Iron Man (2008) (Paramount) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Transformers (2007) (Paramount) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
U-571 (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Beowulf: Director's Cut (2007) (Paramount) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Doomsday (Universal) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
Vantage Point (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Mummy Returns (Universal) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Batman Begins (Warner) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
John Mayer: Where the Light Is (Sony BMG) Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Persepolis (Sony) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Jumper (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Rambo (Lionsgate) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Cloverfield (Paramount) Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Bee Movie (DreamWorks) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Youth Without Youth (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Saawariya (Sony) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
Alien vs. Predator: Requiem (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The 6th Day (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Ice Age (Fox) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
I, Robot (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
I Am Legend (Warner) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Enchanted (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
No Country for Old Men (Walt Disney) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Shoot 'Em Up Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Live Free or Die Hard Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Ratatouille Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Cars Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Planet Earth: Complete BBC Series Video: 5/5 Audio: 3/5 (Region free) (This 4-disc collection is phenomenal!)
Blade Runner: Complete Collector's Edition Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Fifth Element (Remastered) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Crank Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
300 Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Spider-Man 3 Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (Warner) Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds: Live at Radio City Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
Meet the Robinsons Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Open Season Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
Surf's Up Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Pan's Labyrinth Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Patriot (Extended Cut) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Man on Fire Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Rock Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Mr. & Mrs. Smith Video: 4/5 Audio: 5/5
Cast Away Video: 5/5 Audio: 5/5
The Host (Magnolia) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Chris Botti Live with Orchestra and Special Guests (Sony BMG) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Hellboy (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Primeval (Buena Vista) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Ghost Rider (Sony) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Black Snake Moan (Paramount) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4/5
From Hell (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
The Day After Tomorrow (Fox) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 5/5
Black Book (Sony) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Troy: Director's Cut (Warner) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
TMNT (Warner) Video: 4.5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within (Sony) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5
Remember the Titans (Buena Vista) Video: 5/5 Audio: 4.5/5

 

[LuxLuthor]

The reason that I dislike QOS is because I AM a "die hard" james bond fan. I have seen every movie at least twice, and many of them more than that. I felt that quantum of solace simply ditched everything that the 007 movies had in favor of nothing; they basically made it into a Bourne movie without as good of a plot. Additionally, it had no continuity with any other movie (besides Casino Royale).

I don't agree about your opinions on QOS, especially that it ditched everything in favor of nothing, and while it is not in my top 5 Bond films, the continuity with CR made it a valid sequel. In many ways, I saw them as Part 1 & 2, akin to Kill Bill 1 & 2. So we will just have to agree to disagree. :wave:

I understand that upconverting can extrapolate to get some additional artificial detail, but the fact that the 480P signal has far less data means that it simply cannot match the quality of a true 1080P signal, since the upconverter is essentially guessing as to what the original picture looked like.
For what it's worth, I have a Pioneer Elite receiver with a Faroudja DCDI chip for upconversion, which is actually the same chip that is in the Oppo 981-HD, the unit that was above the model that you have in oppo's lineup. It seems like many of the upconverters do some form of anti-aliasing, which can make the picture look better. However, aliasing isn't really an issue at higher resolutions, like 1080P.

If someone already has an HDTV, then they might as well spend their money on a blu-ray drive instead of an upconverting DVD player, since they aren't all that different in price.

I believe you are just learning how the upscaling technology works, but I am confident in my research, and the SCAM characterizations of desperate electronics, media content, media delivery, and retailers needing to come up with major new ideas to drive sales. Many have bought into their hype. Many believe that cable/satellite/phone/fiber transmitted HD is true HD, rather than more typical 720p.

It is quite curious that your earlier equipment

As I said, I have watched upconverted dvds on the exact same system as I have watched blu-ray (both my blu-ray player and my receiver have upconverting capability). Even though one of my TVs is only 720P

has now evolved into another new piece of equipment that just happens to be a slight step beyond my Oppo. Color me suspicious, but the fact that you are connecting either a high quality upcoding DVD or BR player to a 720p TV has a detrimental effect on your credibility.

Upcoding players don't extrapolate. They interpolate. The technology of how it works is compared to my CD/MP3 example, and your earlier statements indicate you have not understood the science behind the technology. You might want to think for a minute of the original resolutions of many classic movies sound and video....and how could they get those up to 1080p.

In descriptions of a movie like Casablanca, you can see that they painstakingly did MANUAL RESTORATIVE work and cleanup for the DVD which was then used for 1080p video transfer. However, they did nothing to improve the audio. AVS forum therefore gives the BR version only a 2.25 silver ranking of what many consider the top rated movie of all time. That is a perfect example of why people who have a restored DVD copy should not bother buying a BR version, unless they enjoy being scammed.

 

[SCEMan]

However what they do not do in that thread is compare a given BR title next to a quality upcoding DVD player/TV setup for the same title. Obviously in a number of cases the BR will be better to some degree. I'm only looking for those that are DRAMATICALLY better.

I think you are on your own here. The debate of upcoding vs. BD is moot. The consensus being that with comparable equipment & media (there's the rub) BD provides superior IQ and AQ. Now, if a BD is poorly mastered vs. the original DVD, upcoding could be superior. My recommendation would be to rent and compare back-to-back, then decide if the BD is a worthwhile purchase.

 

[LuxLuthor]

I think you are on your own here. The debate of upcoding vs. BD is moot. The consensus being that with comparable equipment & media (there's the rub) BD provides superior IQ and AQ. Now, if a BD is poorly mastered vs. the original DVD, upcoding could be superior. My recommendation would be to rent and compare back-to-back, then decide if the BD is a worthwhile purchase.

I'm not really debating the premise that BR is a better quality. It sure as hell should be for what they expect everyone to pay for the whole new setup & media. It is my assertion that with many classic DVD titles, there is not a sufficient improvement to justify buying a replacement BR copy. I'm just looking for those few that are dramatically better to justify their BD expense. It appears there are only about 10-20 in this category. Going forward, I may be more inclined to buy new movies like Star Trek in BD.

I will get a few duplicates, and then do a true side by side comparison by playing DVD and BD at same time, pause & play scenes while switching TV HDMI inputs between the two devices.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I don't have any blueray stuff yet and have a good collection of movies. I am waiting for two things to happen, first a 5 dvd blueray changer so I can use it for my non blue ray movies also as I tend to switch between several movies at a whim. Second is the price of blueray is still steep compared to what standard dvds have been selling for years at, when most standard movies sell at $20 new and blue ray sells at $30 new you ask yourself is the quality difference worth that much if you want 100 movies it will cost you $1000 more. Blue ray prices need to come down to earth more or another format will push it off the planet before it can extinct standard dvd format. I am thinking with memory chips getting cheaper one day 32 and 64Gig chips will be $1 each and you will buy movies in cartridges and do away with spinning fragile discs for good.

 

[Patriot]

What you saw with Patton is exactly why BR is not necessarily worth jumping into the complete setup expense. I also think it is inexcuseable for studios to do crappy transfers for BR. Do they think people who bought Patton BR are then also going to buy a "Director's Edition" of Patton?

It will be interesting to try and objectively compare the upcoding processing of my Oppo vs. this new LG BR.

I was pretty skeptical of Patton (my dad purchased it) until I saw the picture and thought to myself 'wow, they did a decent job.' The color was a little bit saturated but the detail was better that some other crappy blu ray copies that I've seen. The movie is a bit slow to get going and also I'm quick to pick up on sound problems, probably even quicker than I'd notice a picture imperfection, it took about 10-15 minutes to realize there was a problem. Since everything was new I spent about 20 minutes running through all the possibilities like, dynamic range control from the player, receiver settings, and anything else I could think of. Finally I realized that although the sound was low compression and mostly clean, the difference in the high and low mixing was atrocious. It honestly ruined the movie for me. What crappy work from the mixing studio! Just thrown together so that they have yet another title to throw into a blue plastic sleeve. :shakehead

I spent a lot of time looking at the up conversion and it really seemed to do a good job and it was probably equal to my PS3 in that regard. I'm a DLP junkie so it was a bit hard to compare since I didn't have the player hooked up to my own tv, but it looked good on their LCD with movies I was well familiar with....the ones I use as my references.

 

[Patriot]

I'm not really debating the premise that BR is a better quality. It sure as hell should be for what they expect everyone to pay for the whole new setup & media. It is my assertion that with many classic DVD titles, there is not a sufficient improvement to justify buying a replacement BR copy. I'm just looking for those few that are dramatically better to justify their BD expense. It appears there are only about 10-20 in this category. Going forward, I may be more inclined to buy new movies like Star Trek in BD.

I will get a few duplicates, and then do a true side by side comparison by playing DVD and BD at same time, pause & play scenes while switching TV HDMI inputs between the two devices.

This is very clear thinking and I never took you to suggest that BR wasn't far superior when mastered correctly. I think the some posters may have missed your point there somehow. As you stated, most new releases are going to have very good video and audio. The craps shoot is going to be with new copies of old titles. I would agree that in general, most older titles are not worth replacing with BR, and that if you own the movie in DVD, just keep it and enjoy the upconversion. In some cases, as in the movie I watched last night, "Patton" the BR experience was actually worse that the DVD copy. Yes, the BR pic was better but the sound level mixing sucked! I this case I'll sacrifice the 1080p for 720 and take the better sound mix in DVD. DTS and other low compression/no compression formats are useless if they can't get the sound levels right. To avoid the hit and miss quality of the older titles we simply need to check the reviews before purchasing. If everyone did that the junk BD copies wouldn't sell and they'd have to eat the losses of their crappy copies.



P.S. ....and speaking of conspiracy scams Lux, I arrived at my parent's house to set up the system and found that some punk scammed him into a $75 HDMI cable. I was pretty annoyed that my old man was taken advantage of. I pulled a $15 HDMI cable from my kit and boxed the other one back up so that he could return it. I once compared a $200 Monster to a $9 HDMI purchased on line and there wasn't the slightest bit of difference, not even the slightest. It makes sense of course since it's a digital signal. It either gets there or it doesn't.

 

[StarHalo]

Black Friday alert: Samsung will be offering a $129 Blu-Ray player for the holiday buying season, as they did last year; I didn't get one then because I thought they'd all be that cheap by now..

 

[Mjolnir]

Lux, before I had my receiver before I got my blu-ray player, so I used the upconverting in the receiver with a normal dvd player. I don't really understand what you are saying about Casablanca though... Are you suggesting that "painstaking manual restorative work" is anything like what an upconverting player does in real time?
Maybe I am missing your point about this "scam." Are you saying that the whole idea of Blu-ray is a scam, and that we don't need anything better than upconverted DVDs, or that getting a blu-ray disc for a pre blu-ray movie is unnecessary? It seemed to me like you were saying the former, which makes no sense, since blu-ray players aren't prohibitively more than normal DVDplayers, and blu-ray dvds aren't either.

I do agree about the cable scam though. There is zero reason to spend $200 on a cable when you can get one for 7 dollars that will do the exact same thing.

 

[js]

Lux,

OMG! I never would have believed you'd buy a BR player! LOL!

Of course, it IS also a DVD player, n'est pas? And has, as you say, WiFi and USB and ethernet inputs.

Too funny.

Oh, and FWIW, that is the exact BR player I have decided on--when I get one. Which will probably be soon, as my DVD player is exhibiting definite signs of near-term death.

 

[SCEMan]

I'm not really debating the premise that BR is a better quality. It sure as hell should be for what they expect everyone to pay for the whole new setup & media. It is my assertion that with many classic DVD titles, there is not a sufficient improvement to justify buying a replacement BR copy. I'm just looking for those few that are dramatically better to justify their BD expense. It appears there are only about 10-20 in this category. Going forward, I may be more inclined to buy new movies like Star Trek in BD.

I will get a few duplicates, and then do a true side by side comparison by playing DVD and BD at same time, pause & play scenes while switching TV HDMI inputs between the two devices.

Sounds like the best strategy. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding classic titles on BD. Regarding the Patton BD, it's widely considered to be symptomatic of what's wrong with Blu-ray:
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/robertharris/harris062408.html
I have the original 2-disc SE Patton DVD and will not be replacing it.

Unfortunately one has to read the BD reviews at videophile sites before deciding on a blind purchase. I typically rent to review before making a decision as I've found that experiencing the BD in your own home theater is what really matters after all...

Best of luck.

 

[js]

This is very clear thinking and I never took you to suggest that BR wasn't far superior when mastered correctly. I think the some posters may have missed your point there somehow. As you stated, most new releases are going to have very good video and audio. The craps shoot is going to be with new copies of old titles. I would agree that in general, most older titles are not worth replacing with BR, and that if you own the movie in DVD, just keep it and enjoy the upconversion. In some cases, as in the movie I watched last night, "Patton" the BR experience was actually worse that the DVD copy. Yes, the BR pic was better but the sound level mixing sucked! I this case I'll sacrifice the 1080p for 720 and take the better sound mix in DVD. DTS and other low compression/no compression formats are useless if they can't get the sound levels right. To avoid the hit and miss quality of the older titles we simply need to check the reviews before purchasing. If everyone did that the junk BD copies wouldn't sell and they'd have to eat the losses of their crappy copies.



P.S. ....and speaking of conspiracy scams Lux, I arrived at my parent's house to set up the system and found that some punk scammed him into a $75 HDMI cable. I was pretty annoyed that my old man was taken advantage of. I pulled a $15 HDMI cable from my kit and boxed the other one back up so that he could return it. I once compared a $200 Monster to a $9 HDMI purchased on line and there wasn't the slightest bit of difference, not even the slightest. It makes sense of course since it's a digital signal. It either gets there or it doesn't.

Too true. All of it. But especially the super-expensive cable nonsense I've seen so much of. I am willing to pay a bit more for higher quality insulation and connectors and what not. Not all cables are identical! But $75? Come on! What a rip off!

 

[Lynx_Arc]

Too true. All of it. But especially the super-expensive cable nonsense I've seen so much of. I am willing to pay a bit more for higher quality insulation and connectors and what not. Not all cables are identical! But $75? Come on! What a rip off!

nope all cables are not identical but there is a point where it has big enough wires and good enough shielding and makes good connection that the fancy thick cables with gold plating and super oxygenated copper whatnot isn't going to make any more difference but to your pocketbook. I have used $5 printer cables from china when best buy tried to sell me a $25 cable with my printer I laughed as their 6 foot cable wasn't as long as my 15 foot one. monster brand is mostly hype IMO. You could get the monoprice cables for $6 and not tell the difference I figure. Cables have a huge markup IMO.... it is so large it is shameful.

 

[js]

Lynx Arc,

Indeed. I think we're saying the same thing here!

But, for example, I bought some nice Tripp Lite FireWire cables from Amazon that weren't the very cheapest FW cables, but which I feel were worth the extra $5 or $10. They are solidly made cables, with nice rugged insulation and nice connectors. It makes a difference in how solidly I feel they connect to my MBP. The really cheap cables that came with my OWC Mercury Elite-AL Pro external drive cases don't give any kind of positive feedback to me that they are fully inserted into my MBP, whereas the Tripp Lite cables do.

However, $15 is one thing, but $75 is quite another. And yes, I have NEVER thought about dropping money on a Monster Cable.

I went into Best Buy at one point looking for a set of component video cables for my DVD player and all they had were expensive monster cables. I was like, you want HOW MUCH for what is basically three RCA cables? Yer outta yer mind! And I went right over to Radio Shack and bought a set of red, white, yellow triplet RCA cable, intended for left audio, right audio, and composite video, which I simply used as if they were red green blue triplet component cable. Someone later gave me (for free) a high quality set of purpose built component cables, and I swapped them in and could not tell the difference. I ended up eventually giving them back because the force required to jam them onto the DVD player was so high that I was worried I would break something! The cheapie radio shack cables, on the other hand, went on fairly easily. I'm still using them.

 

[Patriot]

Originally Posted by js
Too true. All of it. But especially the super-expensive cable nonsense I've seen so much of. I am willing to pay a bit more for higher quality insulation and connectors and what not. Not all cables are identical! But $75? Come on! What a rip off!

nope all cables are not identical but there is a point where it has big enough wires and good enough shielding and makes good connection that the fancy thick cables with gold plating and super oxygenated copper whatnot isn't going to make any more difference but to your pocketbook. I have used $5 printer cables from china when best buy tried to sell me a $25 cable with my printer I laughed as their 6 foot cable wasn't as long as my 15 foot one. monster brand is mostly hype IMO. You could get the monoprice cables for $6 and not tell the difference I figure. Cables have a huge markup IMO.... it is so large it is shameful.

It's important to qualify what we're talking about here and that is digital signal carriers like HDMI, and optical, not analog. Since the this cable is essentially of the same reasonable build quality as this cable this cable the "point" that you speak of is very low on the price scale. They'll carry the identical signal if the bandwidth is the same spec. Any 10.2Gbps cable is going to carry that loss less, full signal whether the cable cost $2 or $200. Yes, a person might be able to justify a better external build if he's an AV set up guy and transporting them on a daily basis, but typically the weak link is the connection point itself. Since HDMI is already a predetermined maximum external dimension all the manufacturers are going to stamp out the same size and thickness insert sleeve. If a person runs into a HDMI bandwidth deficiency it's not going to result in reduced image quality, it's going to result in image catastrophe. It will have a massive stutter, flicker, rolling horizontal lines etc. So, a manufacturer might claim better cord plastics or sleeves but this usually means little unless your kids are jump roping with it. I think Js and I were referring to picture quality alone and sort of ignored the peripheral specs that don't matter in practical use.

CNET is doing all of their high end lab equipment testing on $10, long run cables.
http://reviews.cnet.com/hdmi-cable/?tag=rb_content;rb_mtx

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11276_7-6845988-4.html?tag=rb_content;rb_mtx

AV forums basically states the same theme.

 

[Lynx_Arc]

I heard somewhere that I think walmart may be selling a blueray player (magnavox?) on black friday for under $100 (79?) but you may have to fight the tramplers to get one

 

[Onuris]

I'm not really debating the premise that BR is a better quality. It sure as hell should be for what they expect everyone to pay for the whole new setup & media. It is my assertion that with many classic DVD titles, there is not a sufficient improvement to justify buying a replacement BR copy. I'm just looking for those few that are dramatically better to justify their BD expense. It appears there are only about 10-20 in this category. Going forward, I may be more inclined to buy new movies like Star Trek in BD.

I will get a few duplicates, and then do a true side by side comparison by playing DVD and BD at same time, pause & play scenes while switching TV HDMI inputs between the two devices.

As an owner of a company that installs high-end home theater systems, I have been looking at this thread since you started it, but refrained from jumping in, mostly b/c I have been busy with my kids this weekend.

I will just say that with all Blu-ray movies, there will always be an improvement over standard DVD in one area, and that is pixel count. All other things being equal, with a higher resolution you will get a sharper, clearer, and more defined image. On the audio side, most Blu-ray discs offer true 7.1 surround in digital Dolby TrueHD and lossless DTS-HD. But there are many other factors to consider in the transfer to Blu-ray format. In regards to video that would be such areas as contrast, brightness, color accuracy and saturation, image dimensionality, motion stability/sharpness, etc,etc. With the sound, there are factors such as imaging, spatial details, dynamic range, spl levels, dynamic balance, etc. to consider.

That said, the technicians responsible for all of this know what they are doing, and it is very rare to come across a Blu-ray disc that is inferior in any way to its DVD counterpart. If the movie was not done well in some areas, it is usually on the master copy and shows on both formats.

In a side by side comparison, I have yet to find a Blu-ray disc that was not noticeably superior to its DVD counterpart.

I will have to add that as a technician and audio/videophile, I do tend to strongly critique the picture and audio quality, but if the content of a movie is good enough, I am willing to accept some technical errors for the overall experience. Many A/V geeks are not so forgiving. And personally, I have a penchant for action and special effects.

So here is my list of the best Blu-ray discs. All of these are movies that I have personally watched and critiqued, and that I feel are worth owning in this format. Some are better than others in some areas, some are great overall, and while in no particular order, this is the order they are in on my reference shelf.

Newer titles:

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
Transformers: 2 disc special edition
BBC Planet Earth: The Complete Series
Pirates Of The Caribbean: Curse Of The Black Pearl
Pirates Of The Caribbean: At Worlds End
Ratatouille
Transformers 2: Revenge Of The Fallen
The Golden Compass
i, Robot
Black Hawk Down
The Prestige
Kingdom Of Heaven: Director's Cut
Wall-E
Bee Movie
Bridge To Terabithia
City Of Ember
Terminator: Salvation
Coraline
Up
Monsters vs Aliens
Monsters Inc.
Bolt
Pan's Labyrinth
Watchmen: Director's Cut
The Chronicles Of Narnia: Prince Caspian
Stargate: Continuum
Casino Royale: Deluxe Edition
The International
Sahara
Happy Feet
Meet The Robinsons
The Island (Warner UK)
Serenity
Cloverfield
Spider Man: The High Definition Trillogy
Ironman
Battle For Terra
Cars
Horton Hears A Who
Tim Burton's Corpse Bride
Troy: Director's Cut
Underworld Unrated
Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within
Sunshine
Jumper
Speed Racer
The Departed: 2 disc special edition
Sin City: Unrated, Re-cut & Extended
Kill Bill Vol. 1 & 2
The Bourne Trilogy
National Treasure: Book Of Secrets
National Treasure
Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World
Beowulf: Director's Cut
3:10 to Yuma
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
300
IMAX: The Living Sea
Letters From Iwo Jima
The Descent
Ice Age: The Meltdown
The Last Samurai
I Am Legend
Rush: Snakes and Arrows Live

Remastered/Restorations:

Baraka
The Fifth Element
Gattaca
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Blade Runner: The Final Cut
The Godfather: Coppola Restoration
Sleeping Beauty: 50th Anniversary
Casablanca
Wizard Of Oz: 70th Anniversary
Close Encounters Of The Third Kind: Ultimate Edition
Independence Day
2001: A Space Odyssey

Additionally, we have watched the Lord Of The Rings Trilogy at 4k resolution, some of the most incredible video and audio that I have seen, so I expect the Blue-ray to be amazing when it is released.

 

[Mjolnir]

I personally thought that "the Fifth Element" was one of the worst science fiction movies ever (not as bad as Battlefield Earth though). Even though it had a number of famous actors, it was just too weird. It was almost like one of Douglass Adams' books, but without the comedy.

I can only imagine what LOTR must look like at such a high resolution. Any idea when it will come out on Blu-Ray? Also, there doesn't seem to be any original Star Wars or Indiana Jones out on Blu-Ray yet... Anyone know when/if these are going to appear?

 

[LuxLuthor]

Lux, before I had my receiver before I got my blu-ray player, so I used the upconverting in the receiver with a normal dvd player. I don't really understand what you are saying about Casablanca though... Are you suggesting that "painstaking manual restorative work" is anything like what an upconverting player does in real time?

No. The restoration work is a completely unique process done to improve deficiencies with existing media. In some cases, the existing media is of such poor quality, that displaying the flaws in a higher resolution will be a worse viewing experience. There is a similar interpolation done when a title transferred to 1080p BR resolution started as a lower resolution.

Regarding the restoration process, it can vary widely, and the quality of the restoration is usually commensurate with a title's popularity. A movie like Casablanca, or The Wizard of Oz, or The Godfather series are to movies what The Beatles are to modern music. That is why it was so shocking to many afficionados that the sound was neglected with the Casablanca restoration.

Restoration takes the best of the existing original tapes/film/digital file and with various equipment and personal attention by highly qualified engineers, the media is cleaned up (dirt/dust/damage removed), tape stretching, film cracking/scratches are fixed. Images are sharpened, colors boosted/adjusted to compensate for fading, etc. An extreme example of restoration is when an original B&W movie is colorized.

Same with sound tracks. Individual instruments, vocals, ranges can be separated and remastered as 5.1 or 7.1 DTS quality. Tape hiss, pops, clicks, crackle, hum, rumble, warbling can be removed. Dynamic properties, separation, loudness, & brilliance can be enhanced to give a richer experience.

Extensive work was done on enhancing Casablanca's video which you can read about at the earlier links I posted, but not with its audio. Once the painstaking enhancement was done, they encoded it to DVD and BR. To see how much better just the video looks on BR, you would need to do the experiment I suggested where a quality 1080p TV is used with multiple HDMI inputs. One would then switch back and forth between the restored DVD in upcoding player vs. restored BR in BR player.

I am suggesting in this back and forth testing, that the difference between the two videos for most people would be relatively minimal. Noticeable, but not living up to the promotional hype that many people buy into. You saw Patriot's disappointment with Patton because of the sound. In many cases the BR version is not worth buying a duplicate disc, not because there isn't some improvement...but rather because the qualitative improvement is not shockingly better than a high quality upcoding DVD player set to 1080p. The over-promotion and characterizing DVD's only playing at 480p vs. BR is what fits with being a scam.

Most people fail to understand how well a quality upcoder set to display the DVD at 1080p can improve the resolution of a standard DVD. Is it as perfect as the BR version...in most cases, no. Is the upcoded DVD ever better than a BR version? I doubt it. But for all those who have significant DVD collections (which can be the largest expense in their media setup--unless they bought a $4,000+ TV), they would be very happy with a <$200 upcoding DVD player.

In complete contrast to this scenario, there are some past titles and current/future titles that will have dramaticly better video & sound enhancements put into the BR version. Those are the ones I posted the thread about.

Maybe I am missing your point about this "scam." Are you saying that the whole idea of Blu-ray is a scam, and that we don't need anything better than upconverted DVDs, or that getting a blu-ray disc for a pre blu-ray movie is unnecessary? It seemed to me like you were saying the former, which makes no sense, since blu-ray players aren't prohibitively more than normal DVDplayers, and blu-ray dvds aren't either.

Mjolnir, I'm not saying the whole idea of Blu-Ray is a scam in the pure sense, as stated above since it is a step up with 1080p....but there are many aspects of BR that are hyped beyond reality to produce sales in many electronics and media companies.

Most BR Fanboys were initially trying to win the battle against DVD-HD. After Sony learned the painful lesson of their Betamax failure and bought off Toshiba's DVD-HD platform, the BR advocates have now transferred their "energies" to destroying DVD.

Unfortunately, most discussions are not doing the comparison with high quality upcoding players switching inputs back and forth on the same exact TV which would minimize the improvement of BR. Rather, they just say that BR is 1080p and DVD's are 480p, and therefore BR is radically better, and DVD sucks.

There is an element of that promotion that is disingenuous, fueled partly by lack of a proper understanding of what a quality upcoding DVD player can accomplish (or how it works), partly because the new sales are towards all things HD. And yes, in general terms BR is going to be better.

The first requirement is that you have a TV that can do true HD 1080p of decent quality (yes, there are crappy 1080p TV's and computer monitors). Then you have to look at the AVS Forum ratings to see if a particular BR copy has high 5/5 scoring which IMHO, should all be 5/5 quality since BR is more expensive--but many BR titles are substandard.

Then there is the whole other issue that there are already many media sources that have much higher resolution than BR, and which is starting to paint a bad prospect for everyone jumping into BR, and building a big BR library.

 

[LuxLuthor]

It's important to qualify what we're talking about here and that is digital signal carriers like HDMI, and optical, not analog. Since the this cable is essentially of the same reasonable build quality as this cable this cable the "point" that you speak of is very low on the price scale. They'll carry the identical signal if the bandwidth is the same spec. Any 10.2Gbps cable is going to carry that loss less, full signal whether the cable cost $2 or $200.

I have heard much the same thing about the HDMI cables. However, look at the image of the whatchmacallits at both ends of the HDMI that came with my Oppo. For whatever reason, I do get a slightly better quality if I use this cable. I don't know what those doohinkies do, but they are on my Canon camera to USB cables also.