JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (sold out again but with new X.V)

[david-me]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Does anyone else even think it's worriesome that "we" seem to be alright with the chance of getting a non working light for $25~26? I mean how hard is it to QC a product before they sell it? I mean, it's not exactly a steal at twenty something...

(just thinking outloud...)

I stopped my order. In turn I ask you this; Is paying a measly $10 -$20 more for a "better light" worth it?

I think of it as this; despite the risk vs. reward of getting a good light, has Jetbeam earned your money?

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

My MkIIx is "received" as well. Hopefully things will go well and Emil will save some face. I personally want no ill will to Emil or Jetbeam. Emil has a good past record on CPF and I hope that such a reputation returns for such a talented flashlight designer.

 

[alphazeta]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

I stopped my order. In turn I ask you this; Is paying a measly $10 -$20 more for a "better light" worth it?

I think of it as this; despite the risk vs. reward of getting a good light, has Jetbeam earned your money?

But I think that's my entire point. WHY are we facing a "risk vs reward" scenario with a ~$20 light? Regardless if I spend $25 or $xxx.xx on a light, I expect it to receive it working correctly out of the box. Not this 33% chance of "you may get a dud..." Heck, I expect to get a working light when I order some $5 cheapie.

Perhaps I'm reading it the wrong way, but I'm not sure what you meant by "measly $10 -$20 more..." But, no I not dying for a Jetbeam. I just wanted a cheap multi leveled output cree light to gift away. For all I care, my money would have went to something like an Ultrafire IF they were to offer something with a hi/low option in this price range.

In any case, it feels like I'm rambling on. Time to go hunt for an easter egg... it may put me in a less grouchy mood...

 

[naturelle]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

I really don't understand what's wrong I've done to correct the retail price of a dealer. Dealers are NOT allowed to sell our products below advertised price, and thats the deal. We're just carrying out our policy, is that wrong ???

Mal-functioning lights have been reapired and sent out, (CLE repaired lights will be ship out in May, we have to re-design the thread to completely solve the problem). Replacements of MKIIx the is not working have been shipped.

We've been trying to produce quality products, but there's always something we have not expected. I apologise for the unhappy experience we've caused to CPFers.

I don't believe that you "really don't understand" as you claimed. Maybe that most cpf-members do not bother your price-fixing as Fenix is doing this as well.
But: Fenix does not harm the customers at the same time with an obviously very bad service as many customers report here in cpf (e.g. dragging delivery-service, poor quality (a clump of cooling-paste on the heatsink of the C-LE), accusing customers with defective C-LE that they used the unallowed 14500 and so on and so on).

In fact I think if you would give a perfect service and a better quality-control at the end-product before sending them nobody would talk about your price-fixing.

BTW: in the most countries in the western world (America, Europe...) price-fixing is not allowed by law.

On the bottom line: you are destroying your good name and your business with your behaviour.

 

[SuperNinja]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

I personally want no ill will to Emil or Jetbeam. Emil has a good past record on CPF and I hope that such a reputation returns for such a talented flashlight designer.

I agree.
Maybe that's cause I haven't had any problems with either company though.



And if a company wants to price fix, personally I don't have a problem with it.
I just won't buy it if it seems too expensive to me.

 

[Stereodude]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

I really don't understand what's wrong I've done to correct the retail price of a dealer. Dealers are NOT allowed to sell our products below advertised price, and thats the deal. We're just carrying out our policy, is that wrong ???

Yes, it's illegal, and DX isn't one of your dealers. They didn't get the product directly from JB, so you can't make them follow your policies anyhow.

If I buy 100 Samsung LCD TVs, and I want to sell them for $100 each, Samsung and everyone else can't do anything about it. DX bought a large batch of lights from one of your dealers in China. That doesn't make DX a dealer. They aren't bound by any agreement with you because thay aren't your dealer.

 

[Art Vandelay]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Take a look at this thread. It suggests that this practice could be legal, and gives Surefire as an example.

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25091

 

[cheapo]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

emil is right... if they are told not to sell it under retail, THEY SHOULDNT DO IT. its robbing all the other retailers who actually follow the rule. (which i assume was set by Jetbeam)

surefire does the same thing, and it makes sense to me, cuz it allows for an even distribution of capital as opposed to all the money going to the guy who can get the lights cheapest. Also, it allows for the company to get some sales too. for example, nobody would buy from surefire had they not implemented that rule, because they were soo much more expensive than other dealers.

btw, i love my mk2x. too bad it doesnt have the spring on the head though. its 3rd light that i have yet to have a problem with.

-david

 

[jasonsmaglites]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

May i pose a suggestion?

emmilion, i think you need a little help here. from a business standpoint and from your shoes, yes if you make the product, or are the main supplier to dealers you can have the policy you want. but sometimes the customer needs to come first if you want to keep your buyers. so a compromise must be had. please consider the suggestion i have to you as one businessman to another.

you should allow dx to have a 3day sale at whatever price he desires. it can be a one time thing to "appease" everyone on cpf. let's make it a month from now so everyone has time to hear the buzz. the other dealers will be minimally affected because none of us are really up to paying $55 for the light. at that price to be honest, i'm in for one of the fenix, and i have one. there is minimal chance that another dealer is searching this forum and/or will pop on that website that weekend and complain. if they do, tell them it will be handled by monday, in which case dx will already have increased the retail price. hopefully this should not hurt the other dealers feelings (sales) and will gain the respect and potential future business of cpf'ers

this is good in the short term cause on that three day sale you will potentially reduce excess inventory or get a new order of hundreds of flashlights. this is also good in the long term because your number one customer base in the u.s.a. will see you are trying to work with us while for the most part keeping your policy in effect. this is similiar to bose who twice a year allow for a sale of roughly ten percent off but the rest of the year is fixed m.s.r.p.

please consider this compromise and do us and yourself a favor.
thanks, we appreciate your visits to this forum
jason

 

[peskyphotons]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

This type of pricing structure is very common in the US. Many manufacturers use a very heavy-handed approach to their distribution. How often do you see both Coke and Pepsi products compete in the same place? Some distributors are allowed to sell only in specific territories. Having one dealer undercut others makes it hard to recruit new dealers. Emil is not doing anything illegal or unusual. It has just become to public and does not seem to be handled very well.

I bought a CLE and a MKIIx. The CLE works fine and is nicely made. The MKIIx also worked but I sold it because it was just not for me. I also expected more output for both of them because of the advertising claims. It is not good to feel that a product did not meet what was advertised. I found it took a long time to ship these and the lack of communication did not make me feel comfortable. Although I am apparently luckier than some as I received working items. I think the lack of a responsive dealer in the US that stocks these products really hurts Emil's efforts to establish Jetbeam here. If my CLE has problems I am unlikely to ship back a $30 item across the globe especially if the dealer is not very responsive. I am more likely to not take a chance on another purchase of a Jetbeam product.

Alex

 

[kurni]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

If my memory serves me right, it's illegal in Australia; there can be a 'Recommended Retail Price' (RRP), but there cannot be a 'compulsory' retail price. I don't know however, if this applies to anywhere other than Australia.

From a marketing perspective, unwinding the offer can be very damaging. It might be better to negotiate a 'limited-time' or 'while-stock-last' offer with DX, while respecting the purchase orders that have been made.

 

[saltwater]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

I confronted Emmilion about quality issues on the Jetbeam CE's that I had purchased directly from him on his website. He was well aware that several of the Jetbeams that he sent out were defective and sent them anyway. If you search hard enough here on CPF you will even find a post by Emillion that he knew that several of the CE's were defective and even listed that as an excuse for delaying the initial delivery. I suspect that all were initially defective and some were corrected, others were not. Either way Emmilion was quite aware that their was a problem and chose to send out the defective lights anyway in the name of profit. You will notice that his posting here stopped right after the money was in his pocket and that getting him to respond via email, PM, or via his sales threads stopped at that point as well.

I was concerned initially about receiving defective goods based on what I had read here but that turned out not to be a problem as Emmilion made sure I recieved nothing at all for my money. For me the service and communication ended as soon as my money was in his pocket. Having waited so long and paying cash via paypal meant that I no longer had any rights to contest non receipt. With an honest seller or dealer of which there are many here on CPF this would not have been a problem but with Emillion it was. Some here may say that I was stupid to pay cash via Paypal or to let it go so long that I had no recourse. If so I agree. I have learned my lesson here with Jetbeam/ Emmilion and it has slowed down my buying of lights, and certainly dampened my enthusiasm for the hobby. I'm only out $80.00 for the lesson. While its not an insignifigant amount of money to waste, and certainly less that others here have been cheated out of on CPF by other sellers failing to deliver goods, it has left me with a bitterness toward Jetbeam/Emmilion that I will not soon forget. I know several here have received defective goods from Emmilion/ Jetbeam and are no better off than me having received nothing at all. I can't recover what I've lost here and there is no upside for me posting here other than to let others know that if you order directly from Emillion / Jetbeam there is considerably more risk than if you order from a reputable dealer who not only delivers the product purchased but services it after the fact.
There are too many decent products and dealers available to all of us to have to accept this level of risk.

I believe that at one time that Jetbeam made quality lights and that perhaps Emillion provided decent service, but this is currently no longer true. After having experienced the full Jetbeam/ Emillion experience I agree with others that have posted here that its like buying a lottery ticket. One that has a maximum winning potential equal to or less than the purchase price. Should you win you get back what you paid or slightly less, otherwise you end up with nothing at all. Not a very good return based on the amount of risk involved. Please keep in mind that these are my personal opinions based on facts here that can be verified, and that I'm biased against Jetbeam/ Emmilion from both personal experience and third party reports made here on CPF.

On a positive note this whole experience has made me more appreciative of the many excellent dealers and sellers here on CPF. There are too many good lights available now from many excellent and reputable dealers to even consider accepting this level of risk/reward. I think that those who have ordered directly from DX have eliminated their risk of terrible service, but may still be subject to problems with quality and warranty concerns later should they be forced to deal directly with Jetbeam.

 

[Dobbler]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Anyone get their C-LE or at least a shipping notice?

 

[Abumustafa]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Anyone get their C-LE or at least a shipping notice?

Naa nuthin yet Dobbler am still waiting for an email confirmation i reckon will wait till the 10th as advertised an then see what happens!!!

If any1 does recieve confirmation pleaz let the rest of us know!!!

 

[alphazeta]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Wellz, I guess I just got a sign to get out of the queue for this one.

I contacted DX to cancel some of the things that I ordered with the CL-E & then discovered that the CL-E was no longer listed. Instead, I had the following on my order:

2098 MXDL-Style Cree P4-WD Flashlight x 1 Ordering $26.00 -
209801 209801 x 1 Ordering - -

Susan from DX also said she couldn't find the CL-E anywhere on my order. SKU#2098 is the code for their cheapie $9.99 CREE'd Elly so I know I didn't order for $26 by "mistake."

Oh wellz, that's the last straw for me. Too much of a fiasco, I just cancelled the whole order. For those still waiting, recheck your order info with DX...

 

[ynggrsshppr]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

This type of pricing structure is very common in the US. Many manufacturers use a very heavy-handed approach to their distribution. How often do you see both Coke and Pepsi products compete in the same place? Some distributors are allowed to sell only in specific territories. Having one dealer undercut others makes it hard to recruit new dealers. Emil is not doing anything illegal or unusual. It has just become to public and does not seem to be handled very well.

Price fixing is illegal in the US. If Pepsi changes their price Coke will do so too. Imagine going into a Deli everyday and finding that the prices of your favorite softdrink changed daily. Wouldn't that be interesting. I'm sure it wouldn't be very pleasant for the companies either since they'll have to keep monitoring the situation.

With regards to JB and Emil, I initially wanted to buy a CL-E from the groupbuy, but decided against it. I'm glad I did because Jetbeam isn't the only option here. The sooner the people realize this the better.

 

[TeK]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Wellz, I guess I just got a sign to get out of the queue for this one.

I contacted DX to cancel some of the things that I ordered with the CL-E & then discovered that the CL-E was no longer listed. Instead, I had the following on my order:

2098 MXDL-Style Cree P4-WD Flashlight x 1 Ordering $26.00 -
209801 209801 x 1 Ordering - -

Susan from DX also said she couldn't find the CL-E anywhere on my order. SKU#2098 is the code for their cheapie $9.99 CREE'd Elly so I know I didn't order for $26 by "mistake."

Oh wellz, that's the last straw for me. Too much of a fiasco, I just cancelled the whole order. For those still waiting, recheck your order info with DX...

Fine here:
2095 JetBeam CLE Cree 1xAA Flashlight x 1 Ordering $26.00 -

 

[Abumustafa]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Wellz, I guess I just got a sign to get out of the queue for this one.

I contacted DX to cancel some of the things that I ordered with the CL-E & then discovered that the CL-E was no longer listed. Instead, I had the following on my order:

2098 MXDL-Style Cree P4-WD Flashlight x 1 Ordering $26.00 -
209801 209801 x 1 Ordering - -

Susan from DX also said she couldn't find the CL-E anywhere on my order. SKU#2098 is the code for their cheapie $9.99 CREE'd Elly so I know I didn't order for $26 by "mistake."

Oh wellz, that's the last straw for me. Too much of a fiasco, I just cancelled the whole order. For those still waiting, recheck your order info with DX...

Alpha mines seems to be fine too its says C-LE am still gona hang on an see what comes out of this!!!

 

[FlashCrazy]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

Fine here:
2095 JetBeam CLE Cree 1xAA Flashlight x 1 Ordering $26.00 -

Mine too...showing the JetBeam

 

[alphazeta]

Re: JetBeam C-LE $26 @DX (forced removed from listing)

That's weird guys... My paypal receipt shows the CL-E listed but, DX definitely no longer has it listed correctly on my order. (& it is still somewhat disconcerting that Susan couldn't find it on my account!)

Anyhow, as I said that was my sign to get out. In a way, I'm glad it helped make up my mind. I was somewhat on the fence, given that it was mentioned that Emillion stated the improved/fixed CL-E would be offered sometime in May. Did that mean that there are boatloads of JB defects floating around on the market? I dunno. I suppose I don't care anymore or ever again when it comes to Jetbeams. I'm going to go order a Fenix L1DCE for my brother instead. (On a side note, is it me or did the L0DCE recently go up in price @ the fenix-store?)

For the guys staying in, I truly hope you get good working CL-Es.
For ~$26, I just didn't like how we had to be open to the apparent 1/3 chance of getting a defective light when ordering a CL-E. That just shouldn't happen. Let's be honest, we pay a high premium in our hobby for a metal pipe, some glass, metal & pcb... At the minimum, the products we pay for should be QC'd before they come off the assembly line... :thumbsdow

*gets off soapbox & returns to work*