LAPD will design their own flashlight

Double_A

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Naw this is something every guy knows and understands. You use the right tool for the job.

Flashlights for light, batons as impact weapons, sidearms for defensive and shotgun and rifle as appropriate.

or are you guys the ones that open paint cans with pocket knives and wonder why the blades are damaged and break ????

If you are a police officer and equipped appropriately this should not be an issue. (Except for the creeping weight of a duty belt. Cuff's 1 or 2?, Pepper spray, baton, flashlight, knife in pouch, holster, two reloads, keys, mini-tape recorder, sap..let see what have I left out?...oh yea taser and disposable cuffs)

GregR
 

Frangible

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Unfortunately, as a police officer, criminals will not wait nicely while you mess with your gear and pull out a baton, which takes several seconds-- the difference between life and death.

The more effective tools are taken away from police officers, the more they increase the officer's risk of injury and speed of reaction to a threat, especially in a darkened setting at close quarters.

Why should officers' safety be compromised for the sake of criminals? I just don't understand that.
 

Double_A

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Frangible-

Are you saying your flashlight is most effective tool or often just the handiest? No need to answer.

GregR

P.S. I forgot radio on the belt
P.P.S. and after chasing crooks for a few years myself, I agree you attack me, you do deserve what you get.
 

NikolaTesla

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Why design them? Eveready has some nice cheap plastic jobs at Walmart that could not squish a roach with let alone hurt some one. they only cosy $2 too! Cheap to replace if you break it too (Even weekly if need be)

NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--HID Forever!

My Lights LightWar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/xyxgun.gif
 

haley1

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I think all LEO's should have glow sticks, paint ball guns, grease pencils and tricycles. That way they couldn't possibly hurt any of those poor underprivaleged, wayward criminals, you know, the ones whose fault is upbringing, or lack of education due to all the money going to the good schools. It couldn' possbly be their way of life, or their drug addiction, or their lazyness, or their failure to hold a job, ect, ect, ect. Socialism didn't work in Russia, what makes politicians like DF think it's going to work in CA. Just a red neck opinion.
 

Rothrandir

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if i needed to open a paintcan in a life or death situation, then darn right i'd use my knife rather than looking around for a screwdriver.
 

Double_A

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[ QUOTE ]
Rothrandir said:
if i needed to open a paintcan in a life or death situation, then darn right i'd use my knife rather than looking around for a screwdriver.

[/ QUOTE ]

Breaking my knife blade opening a can of paint in a life or death situation and then I'm really in trouble!

GregR
 

BIGIRON

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I keep hoping these LAPD/flashlight threads are bad jokes and will go away.

I wish I hadn't used my Rod Serling line in another thread. Maybe a Kafka line would be more appropriate.
 

ABTOMAT

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So they're trying to stop the issuing of 3D-size flashlights? I wonder if any of these folks know what cops used to carry?

hmm.jpg
 

chrisse242

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Well, that's the way politicians think. We all know it happens from time to time that some leo's use inadequate force on somebody. This happens in germany, I'm sure it happens in the USA and every other country in the world. But instead of finding out why the officer did it, a politician will say. "Hey, he hit this guy with his flashlight, public is mad about us so we need to take that flashlight away from him." They know it would be better to have a better training for officers in stress situations and to sort those very few out who are in the job because they just love beating up people. It's just that politicians know that public will love the simple answer. It's as simple as that, nobody votes for a politican who always tells the truth, it's so much easier to believe in lies and rant later on when they do the wrong thing.

Chrisse
 

Double_A

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[ QUOTE ]
ABTOMAT said:
So they're trying to stop the issuing of 3D-size flashlights? I wonder if any of these folks know what cops used to carry?

hmm.jpg


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, your baton flashlight just reminded me a co-worker who would refer to his flashlight as his "electric sap"

GregR
 

Techmedic

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A good discussion indeed...
As a taxi driver years ago, I carried a 4C M@G beside me at night. It was called the "customer control stick".
My excuse...? It was required to see house numbers.
Never got to hit anyone with it though...
 

indenial

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Weren't they carrying just traditional multi-D cell M*glites? If that's the case it would seem as if an off-the-shelf Surefire L4 would be an adequate substitute in terms of flood and brighness, or is throw a big issue for law enforcement? Just curious.
 

dano

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LAPD, not sure what the "issued" light is, but Streamlight SL-20x's are the dominate full-size light with them.

--dan
 

PJ

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MI
I don't know how many people remember the Malice Green incident in Detroit but I recall the newspapers printed pictures and descriptions of the flashlight used. I believe that most Detroit police were only allowed to carry small lights like Surefires after that. IIRC they were not allowed to carry batons or pepper spray since the mid- '70s so their non-lethal force options were the lights. Below is some info from the Michigan Daily website on the cops legal battle and on the original incident.

------------------------------------------------------------
©1998 The Michigan Daily

03-20-98

Conviction made in Budzyn retrial
Judge to sentence former Detroit police officer on April 17

DETROIT (AP) - A white police officer was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter yesterday at his retrial for the flashlight beating death of a black motorist, as jurors opted not to convict him of murder again.

Walter Budzyn had faced second-degree murder charges after his 1993 second-degree murder conviction for Malice Green's death was overturned in part because the jury watched "Malcolm X" during a break in deliberations.

The case had highlighted racial tensions in the city, and jurors in the first trial were aware of fears that violence could break out if Budzyn and his partner were acquitted.


AP PHOTO
Malice Green's daughter, Eneatra Massey, and his widow, Rose Green, react to the verdict in the retrial of former police officer Walter Budzyn yesterday.

Members of Green's family hugged each other as yesterday's verdict was announced and said they were happy with the conviction, even though it was for a lesser charge.

"That's what I was looking for: the word guilty," said Treise Green, Malice Green's sister.

Defense attorney James Howarth criticized the verdict as a "compromise" and said he would appeal.

"In his mind he is innocent and for that reason he should fight on and I will encourage him to do that," he said.

A second-degree murder conviction would have carried a potential life sentence. Involuntary manslaughter is punishable by up to 15 years in prison - but prosecutor Doug Baker suggested that Budzyn might not be returned to prison because of the 4 1/2 years he has already served.

"If that's what the judge seeks to impose (time served), that would not upset me," he said.

As the verdict was read, Budzyn wore the same steely expression he has kept throughout the month-long trial. His daughter, Andy Budzyn-Moleski, started crying and mouthed the word "why?"

Budzyn declined comment. Jurors also did not comment.

Green, an unemployed steel worker, died Nov. 5, 1992 after a confrontation with Budzyn and his partner, Larry Nevers, in front of a crack house.

In overturning his conviction in July, the state Supreme Court cited outside influences to the jury, including the viewing of "Malcolm X." The film opens with videotape of the Rodney King beating in Los Angeles with a voice-over from Malcolm X charging the white man is "the greatest murderer on Earth."

Although no testimony indicated race as a factor in Green's death, the Detroit case was compared to the King beating 20 months earlier because Budzyn and Nevers are white and Green was black.

Nevers, who was tried together with Budzyn and convicted by a separate jury, has admitted he hit Green in self-defense.

A federal judge overturned Nevers' conviction in December, and prosecutors are appealing. If that appeal fails, prosecutors have said they plan to also retry him on murder charges.

The jury in the first trial was made up of 11 black jurors and one white juror. The 1993 trial was held in Detroit Recorder's Court, which drew only jurors who lived in the city. Recorder's Court was later combined with the county system. The new jury was made up of five white women, three white men, three black women and an Asian female.

With the verdict that was rendered by a different jury - a jury that had a different ethnicity than the first one - I would suggest that justice has been served," Archer said.

"This isn't some sort of persecution of these officers," Baker said.

Wayne County Circuit Judge Thomas Jackson set sentencing for April 17.
------------------------------------------------------------
 

Rebus

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What they ought to be worried about is being dragged
into court my maglite and being buried in terminal
litigation for attempted disruption of "The Proven Standard".

-Rebus
 

gadget_lover

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I have to wonder....

If we gave Cops a free hand to beat the leving crap out of law breakers, would it be for the better or the worse?

I know we'd have more instances of people being beaten and killed, and I know that the job would attract a different type of person but.....

Would we have as many innocent people killed in high speed chases if cops were allowed to shoot the first time they had a clear shot?

Would we have as many innocent people injured in drive-by shootings if the cops were busting gang members at the slightest provocation?

Would we have as many people doing stupid things if they thought that punishment was certain and that they could NOT sue for police harassment?

I remember living in a small town when I was young. It was well known that Officer Bill would make you very sorry if he had to chase you down. The thought of spending a half hour alone with Officer Bill was enough to keep many of us on the straight and narrow. We knew that we, as teenagers, would not go to jail. We also knew that there was no appeal.

It's just a thought. In the mean time, the cops should at least have the right to use whatever is in their hand for protection, even if it is a 4 Cell Mag.


Daniel
 

MichiganMan

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[ QUOTE ]
gadget_lover said:
Would we have as many innocent people killed in high speed chases if cops were allowed to shoot the first time they had a clear shot?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually more, because at that point flight by genuinely terrified criminals would be a virtual certainty. Most of them are already completely in the unreasoning, tunnel vision flight side of a "Fight or Flight" reaction now. Imagine how bad it would be after a couple years of stories about what the police do when they catch you (leaving out the provocation of course)

[ QUOTE ]

Would we have as many innocent people injured in drive-by shootings if the cops were busting gang members at the slightest provocation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of the one's I work with, they're pretty much doing this already. The problem comes in keeping them off the streets with a court system that is a lot more reasonable than they get credit for, and an expensive jail system already at the limits

[ QUOTE ]

Would we have as many people doing stupid things if they thought that punishment was certain and that they could NOT sue for police harassment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably not, but I don't want to go there, and I'm a lock 'em up kind of guy by nature. ie. Singapore doesn't have near the crime problem we do, but I don't really think we want to impose the kind of police state they have to have had to achieve it.

[ QUOTE ]

I remember living in a small town when I was young. It was well known that Officer Bill would make you very sorry if he had to chase you down. The thought of spending a half hour alone with Officer Bill was enough to keep many of us on the straight and narrow. We knew that we, as teenagers, would not go to jail. We also knew that there was no appeal.


[/ QUOTE ]

That works with the kind of low impact criminal environment that exists in a small town. In a modern city however, such a system would swing wildly between completely ineffective and scandalously abusive.

[ QUOTE ]

It's just a thought. In the mean time, the cops should at least have the right to use whatever is in their hand for protection, even if it is a 4 Cell Mag.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fear is not that cops are injuring people while protecting themselves, its that they'll injure people needlessly for purposes of intimidation, revenge, sadism, etc. The proponents of the restrictions would have you believe this crap happens all the time. I'm more of the opinion that the number of ... well, criminal abuses by police officers is actually tiny statistically, and, unfortunately, inevitable given the number of human beings we have to have in law enforcement. IOW, given a sampling of 1000 people, its unrealistic to not have say, two of them be completely defective sadists that can fly under the radar of psychological screenings.

I share in your frustration, but I think your solution is more blowing off steam than a realistic alternative.
 

gadget_lover

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[ QUOTE ]
MichiganMan said:

I share in your frustration, but I think your solution is more blowing off steam than a realistic alternative.



[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was half serious. When I just want to blow off steam I propose that every one be allowed to carry a gun and a "he had it commin" law to defend it's use.

Can you imagine how much more honest a used car salesman would be if he thought that deliberately selling a lemon might get him shot? I'm sure most juries would agree that "he had it comming"!

Would there be fewer drive by shootings if every angry grandmother on the block pulled a 38 special out of their purse and took out the creeps in the car?

See, that's blowing off steam.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Daniel
 
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