Most powerful commercially available portable HID spotlight?

[XeRay]

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?468657-Can-LED-lights-now-throw-at-the-same-level-as-HID

This thread discusses the performance comparables between high powered LED and HID searchlights.

 

[DayofReckoning]

Vinh from SkyLumen will soon have his hands on the Astrolux MF05 and, as with every other LED light, will be pushing even further than it's stock spec of 7500 lumens and 2.5 mil candela. With active cooling, it will be interesting to see how much of that 7500 lumens it can maintain.

FWIW, I no doubt anticipate something extremely impressive coming from XeRay, their products and performance exceeds the best Polarion has to offer.

 

[XeRay]

So what is the most powerful HID you can buy? In english please. Is it the Lemax SP 70? The lemax looks like a laser, not much use. What is this superhead mod? the thread has no replies for a while. Been looking for something with high output (10,000lumens+) & high throw (4km). Looks like nothing going. LED is catching up & getting decent runtimes...few more years & LED might be the go i rekon.

FWIW, I no doubt anticipate something extremely impressive coming from XeRay, their products and performance exceeds the best Polarion has to offer.

Well you must be confusing the Lemax (XeVision) units with the Maxabeam, it has a "laser-like" beam of little practical use except for snipers and fun (wow) factor.
The XeVision XeRay (Lemax) units are a VERY "different animal" than "laser-like" as you describe. Very use-able for search and rescue etc.
Everyone here that's familiar with these units, will attest to these last 2 sentences and claims.

We recently made a numbered limited edition (Late 2019) run of XeVision XeRay Ultra 85's dual wattage 40/85 output watts, at approximately 10,000 output lumens at the high 85 watt setting.
There is one unit remaining available 5/10 (unit 5 out of 10 units), It has the standard 70 head with an option to buy the SuperPower head.
The range with the standard 70 head (11.7 cm 4.5 inch diameter) is about 3+Km and about 4.5+Km with the SuperPower optional head (22 cm 8.5 inch diameter).
These units can be run continuously at high output without dimming or overheating.
They don't dim like LED does without having some very effective active cooling.

Ultra 85 Thread and beam-shots threads below.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?453551-XeVision-ULTRA-85-Beamshots

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ision-ULTRA-80-85W-Super-head-mod-SIGN-UP-NOW

 

[DayofReckoning]

Well you must be confusing the Lemax (XeVision) units with the Maxabeam, it has a "laser-like" beam of little practical use except for snipers and fun (wow) factor.
The XeVision XeRay (Lemax) units are a VERY "different animal" than "laser-like" as you describe. Very use-able for search and rescue etc.
Everyone here that's familiar with these units, will attest to these last 2 sentences and claims.

We recently made a numbered limited edition (Late 2019) run of XeVision XeRay Ultra 85's dual wattage 40/85 output watts, at approximately 10,000 output lumens at the high 85 watt setting.
There is one unit remaining available 5/10 (unit 5 out of 10 units), It has the standard 70 head with an option to buy the SuperPower head.
The range with the standard 70 head (11.7 cm 4.5 inch diameter) is about 3+Km and about 4.5+Km with the SuperPower optional head (22 cm 8.5 inch diameter).
These units can be run continuously at high output without dimming or overheating.
They don't dim like LED does without having some very effective active cooling.

Ultra 85 Thread and beam-shots threads below.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?453551-XeVision-ULTRA-85-Beamshots

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ision-ULTRA-80-85W-Super-head-mod-SIGN-UP-NOW

That is certainly impressive. It's also impressive a sub $600 Chinese LED is starting to close in on the heels of that. Will be interesting to see how close it may come when pushed by SkyLumen.

 

[Alex1234]

I'm going to guess the mf05vn with the delens sbt90 will push 2.7 million cd slightly more then the stock of 2.5 million cd. I think it will compete nicely with the standard head version. Won't beat the superpower head but it should be able to keep up somewhat. And with how massive the mf05 host is heat will be a none issue. Vinh already stated his driver will be able to maintain turbo indefinitely. With in the next 10 years I think we see an led flashlight hit 4-5 miles of throw disregarding lep.

 

[XeRay]

I'm going to guess the mf05vn with the delens sbt90 will push 2.7 million cd slightly more then the stock of 2.5 million cd. I think it will compete nicely with the standard head version. Won't beat the superpower head but it should be able to keep up somewhat. And with how massive the mf05 host is heat will be a none issue. Vinh already stated his driver will be able to maintain turbo indefinitely. With in the next 10 years I think we see an led flashlight hit 4-5 miles of throw disregarding lep.

How are the LED's being kept cool enough, so that they can maintain full output for hours at a time ??

 

[DayofReckoning]

I'm going to guess the mf05vn with the delens sbt90 will push 2.7 million cd slightly more then the stock of 2.5 million cd. I think it will compete nicely with the standard head version. Won't beat the superpower head but it should be able to keep up somewhat. And with how massive the mf05 host is heat will be a none issue. Vinh already stated his driver will be able to maintain turbo indefinitely. With in the next 10 years I think we see an led flashlight hit 4-5 miles of throw disregarding lep.

Objectively, Acebeam and their engineers are a notch above Astrolux (Astrolux is still good), and all others for that matter at this time, when it comes to pushing the boundaries, and their products have been the benchmark for pushing the cutting edge in lights for several years now. Imalent wins on paper, but the build quality, reliability, and QC are inferior. I'm 100% certain Acebeam has a light on the drawing boards that's going to outperform the MF05.

How are the LED's being kept cool enough, so that they can maintain full output for hours at a time ??

By a combination of sheer mass and active cooling. Imalent also has lights with internal PC style cooling fans, that, done properly, will provide even greater cooling ability than the setup Astrolux is using here.

Photo courtesy of 1Lumen

Also note this light uses a battery configuration of 8X18650 cells, which is vastly superior to ANY HID on the market.

 

[XeRay]

Unless they have a very efficient way to directly pull the heat away from the base of the LED's themselves, just massive heatsink fins and fans won't do it.
The LED(s) will still get WAY TOO HOT.
Its all about the "Delta T" between the base of the LED(s) and its thermal connection to heatsink medium. The "Delta T" had better be very large for this to work reliably.
Its not like those fins are directly connected to the back of the LED's.
Moving the heat from the LED's to the heatsink very effectively is not easily accomplished.
lots of mass only helps in the short term.

Shipping of a battery package that large, in total capacity can be a big (legal and safety) issue from overseas. Unless of course they lie in the shipping documents, or only sell it not including any batteries.

 

[BVH]

Objectively, Acebeam and their engineers are a notch above Astrolux (Astrolux is still good), and all others for that matter at this time, when it comes to pushing the boundaries, and their products have been the benchmark for pushing the cutting edge in lights for several years now. Imalent wins on paper, but the build quality, reliability, and QC are inferior. I'm 100% certain Acebeam has a light on the drawing boards that's going to outperform the MF05.



By a combination of sheer mass and active cooling. Imalent also has lights with internal PC style cooling fans, that, done properly, will provide even greater cooling ability than the setup Astrolux is using here.

Photo courtesy of 1Lumen

Also note this light uses a battery configuration of 8X18650 cells, which is vastly superior to ANY HID on the market.

That cooling fan handle is a perfect example of "Mickey Mouse" engineering and implementation. I had the 60,000 Lumen from Imalent or a competitor that had that handle, can't remember who, and dumped it about 2 weeks later.

 

[bulbmogul]

Hoping to see SUREFIRE come out with several more new high end military grade HID Lights to go with the Arc28C and the Hellfighter5....

 

[DayofReckoning]

That cooling fan handle is a perfect example of "Mickey Mouse" engineering and implementation. I had the 60,000 Lumen from Imalent or a competitor that had that handle, can't remember who, and dumped it about 2 weeks later.

That "Mickey Mouse" engineered handle just so happens to show a decrease of up to 10 degrees celsius in the Acebeam X70 in independent testing, which is nothing to scoff at. I'm certain you actually took time to look up the data before commenting though. Will be interesting to see if the one included on this light will be any worse or better.

Looks kind of gimmicky, and it kind of is, looks like a last minute idea, I agree, but a light this size needs a handle, and I see no reason to ridicule a design that is simple, cheap, and from some testing, somewhat effective.

 

[DayofReckoning]

Hoping to see SUREFIRE come out with several more new high end military grade HID Lights to go with the Arc28C and the Hellfighter5....

The Surefire of today is not the Surefire that built those monster HID's you have. I wouldn't expect too much.

 

[XeRay]

Hoping to see SUREFIRE come out with several more new high end military grade HID Lights to go with the Arc28C and the Hellfighter5....

Not gonna happen, Surefire is "done" with this very special and limited market. Surefire never even made it up to 50 Watt HID, let alone 70 Watt or even the 85+Watts ULTRA HID.

 

[XeRay]

That "Mickey Mouse" engineered handle... Looks kind of gimmicky, and it kind of is, looks like a last minute idea, I agree, but a light this size needs a handle, and I see no reason to ridicule a design that is simple, cheap, and from some testing, somewhat effective.

I think his (BVH's) biggest concern is its lack of robustness (the handle). You can DRIVE a car or pickup truck over a XeVision (Lemax) unit. I doubt that handle can even take a direct drop hit from 4 to 5 feet

 

[DayofReckoning]

I think his (BVH's) biggest concern is its lack of robustness (the handle). You can drive over a XeVision (Lemax) unit. I doubt that handle can even take a direct drop fro 5 ft.

Not going to comment on the robustness, as I don't know, you may be right. I do know the Acebeam variant is very likely to be more durable than what's pictured.

And I've seen the LEMAX vs Volvo video I dont' doubt their robustness, Though a few night ago I did spin the magnetic ring on my LX50 possibly a bit too fast or hard, and it made a short grinding noise. Can't repeat it again and can't get it to do it again, not sure what that was about. :thinking:

 

[BVH]

Mickey Mouse both from an aesthetics and functional standpoint. The very narrow channel flow of air over maybe 20-30% of only 180 degrees of the finned head surface creates a spot cooling scenario where you're going to have uneven cooling so uneven LED performance. The MS18, on the other hand, has no ugly glued-on afterthought looking handle. It has two fans 180 degrees opposed to each other and two exhaust outlets 90 degrees from the fan inlets. The result, 360 head cooling. In addition, it utilizes an internal mounted copper heatpipe system to further its' cooling efficiency. It conforms to industry standard norms. The stick-on handle is an inefficient embarrassment.

Having had both style lights, I can also say that while the handle fan moves air, the air coming off the fins is not that much warmer than ambient. It absorbs very little heat The air coming from the MS18 exhaust ports is quite warm, having picked up a lot of heat.

 

[XeRay]

Mickey Mouse both from an aesthetics and functional standpoint. The very narrow channel flow of air over maybe 20-30% of only 180 degrees of the finned head surface creates a spot cooling scenario where you're going to have uneven cooling so uneven LED performance. The MS18, on the other hand, has no ugly glued-on afterthought looking handle. It has two fans 180 degrees opposed to each other and two exhaust outlets 90 degrees from the fan inlets. The result, 360 head cooling. In addition, it utilizes an internal mounted copper heatpipe system to further its' cooling efficiency. It conforms to industry standard norms. The stick-on handle is an inefficient embarrassment. Having had both style lights, I can also say that while the handle fan moves air, the air coming off the fins is not that much warmer than ambient. It absorbs very little heat The air coming from the MS18 exhaust ports is quite warm, having picked up a lot of heat.

Very good points BVH

I suspect the biggest problem is they haven't done a good job in getting the heat out of the LED's and into to the metal mass or the fins, such that no fan could do much to move heat away from the heatsink fins. For any heatsink to be highly efficient (as is required in this application), there must be a large "deltaT" between the ambient air temperature (air moved by the fan) and the metal temperature of the heatsink in the area(s) of the fan air movement (flow).

 

[DayofReckoning]

Objectively, Acebeam and their engineers are a notch above Astrolux (Astrolux is still good), and all others for that matter at this time, when it comes to pushing the boundaries, and their products have been the benchmark for pushing the cutting edge in lights for several years now. Imalent wins on paper, but the build quality, reliability, and QC are inferior. I'm 100% certain Acebeam has a light on the drawing boards that's going to outperform the MF05.



By a combination of sheer mass and active cooling. Imalent also has lights with internal PC style cooling fans, that, done properly, will provide even greater cooling ability than the setup Astrolux is using here.

Photo courtesy of 1Lumen

Also note this light uses a battery configuration of 8X18650 cells, which is vastly superior to ANY HID on the market.

Mickey Mouse both from an aesthetics and functional standpoint. The very narrow channel flow of air over maybe 20-30% of only 180 degrees of the finned head surface creates a spot cooling scenario where you're going to have uneven cooling so uneven LED performance. The MS18, on the other hand, has no ugly glued-on afterthought looking handle. It has two fans 180 degrees opposed to each other and two exhaust outlets 90 degrees from the fan inlets. The result, 360 head cooling. In addition, it utilizes an internal mounted copper heatpipe system to further its' cooling efficiency. It conforms to industry standard norms. The stick-on handle is an inefficient embarrassment.

Having had both style lights, I can also say that while the handle fan moves air, the air coming off the fins is not that much warmer than ambient. It absorbs very little heat The air coming from the MS18 exhaust ports is quite warm, having picked up a lot of heat.

I summarized this long ago in this thread. No one is arguing that the Imalent isn't a better design. You are providing conjecture on the efficiency on this handle versus the real numbers that show it does has some degree of cooling effect. Furthermore, I also acknowledged the "tackiness" of this handle just a few posts ago. So I don't know who you are arguing against, we are all in agreement here. My argument is that all large searchlights have carrying handles, and though gimmicky, I see no issue with the "last minute" implementation of this integrated fan if it does have an effect. It's better to have the fan than no fan at all. And if it does break, the light is still functional.
Astrolux having chosen to this route with the cooling, maybe it's just a cheap copy and paste of the next CCP thing, or maybe they have data showing it's worthwhile to include the cooling, I can't say. I do hope whoever does the review takes that data down.

 

[DayofReckoning]

I like how speculation, elitist snarky comments, and and pure conjecture gets trumped by data. 6:27 in that video. It must be noted that sheer output is not the primary goal with the cooling, but also ensuring to extend the lifespan of the components, and the data shows this cooling fan to provide some benefit.

 

[BVH]

It's hardly conjecture when I have direct experience with both systems. I think your use of the word "Objectively" in your above post is a bit misused. It really should be subjectively. Unless you're on the engineering teams of all these lights you mention, then you don't really know anything substantial about what goes into them.