Night-Ops Gladius Release Information

[StainlessSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
dougmccoy said:
I really feel that it is unfair and indeed pre-emptive to start criticising the Gladius. For my money and from knowledge of the people behind the R&D on this light it will perform in tactical uses very well. Of course 'informed' criticism is different, but as samples are not yet available to members of this forum who can truely say they are as yet informed?
Doug

[/ QUOTE ]

Were you intending to quote me? Or lowbat?

I know, for a fact, that it uses a Lux 3 and S & T bins. This was DIRECTLY from Ken himself.

SS

 

[code09]

lowbat: how hard could it be to operate a flashlight?? I thought the arc 4+ was hard to use, but after a day of playing around with it, it was a great light, and very easy to use...i dont think getting used to this light will be hard.

But then again, there are no samples out yet.

 

[LowBat]

[ QUOTE ]
moephiues said:
lowbat: how hard could it be to operate a flashlight?? I thought the arc 4+ was hard to use, but after a day of playing around with it, it was a great light, and very easy to use...i dont think getting used to this light will be hard.

But then again, there are no samples out yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I say the simpler the better when it comes to tactical equipment. The more complex it becomes, the more Murphy's Law comes into play.

 

[AlecGold]

[ QUOTE ]
moephiues said:
lowbat: how hard could it be to operate a flashlight??

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience it can be very hard to do very simple things under stressfull conditions. Just opening a door when a fire roaring is behind you can be a killer: the door opens to the inside and people have been know to die there, because they didn't realise so!

I realy like the description of the light and all the functionality, most of all I like the competition it seems to offer to SureFire, which is good for a consumer/user like the most of us. But it contradictes all I've ever seen and hear from tactical lights, basicly it breaks the KISS rule, just like LowBat said.

 

[Steve C]

In LowBat's posts, I smell the odor of experience of trying to use an unfamiliar and complex piece of gear when the pucker factor is off the scale. Having been there myself, I agree with him 100%. The usefulness of an item when the operator is under stress is directly proportional to the simplicity of operation of the item and/or level of training of the operator.

IOW, if you train with it constantly, a complex piece of equipment is okay for high-stress operations. If you don't have the necessary manipulations burned into your subconscious, then you will, in all probability, stand there staring at your complex piece of gear like a hog looking at a wrist watch when the chips are down.

This system shut-down under stress is something that armchair commandos just don't take seriously. They see the word "tactical" and get all wet.

I'm not throwing rocks at anyone in particular here. It just seems that, on this board, any time someone with obvious real-world experience raises possible objections to a new wunder-light (especially a product of certain revered firms), or even an older product, he is dismissed as a nay-sayer.

No big deal; it just seems a bit odd to me, as most of the participants here seem to be ordinary folks who do not lead strenous lives.

 

[KevinL]

[ QUOTE ]
Steve C said:
...then you will, in all probability, stand there staring at your complex piece of gear like a hog looking at a wrist watch when the chips are down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love that quote.....WELL SAID!

Another CPFer asked me about the Gladius early on. While I like the concept and I respect the amount of engineering that has gone into it, the UI is a little bit too complicated for me. Even though I don't break down doors in the middle of the night, I like lights because of their simplicity and I have one rule - any light that takes me more than 60 seconds to figure out the UI when not under stress is not going to cut the mustard.

Just the other day I had the opportunity to handle a L1-PRT with two-stage switching system and I was impressed by how fast I could switch between light levels with one hand compared to operating the U2's selector ring with one hand. Press for light, press just a little bit harder for full blast. There is indeed something to be said for simplicity and I can appreciate how those with very much less time to work with than I have can love the Surefire L2 or Don's McE2S.

After all, if I wanted complex, I'd just go back to my computers and routers (day job)...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif and you can bet the darn things never work when the chips are down... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

 

[McGizmo]

I have been on record for some time now with the qualification that I wouldn't know tactical if it bit me in the a$$. I have played with a few lights that have sophisticated UI's as well as simpler lights that don't. I do have some experience with tools that have multiple functions and levers and controls. It seems to me that regardless of your task at hand as well as tools at your disposal, success is always a function of familiarity with the tools and if time or a distracting environment are elements or if one must respond imediately to a change in circumstances, success will result if the proper knee jerk response is performed! I would suspect that success would follow if the proper response were either intuitive or ingrained from training and experience.

Many of the UI's I have experienced are too complicated for me and I opt for a simpler system. However, I don't need these lights with the complicated UI's and my life does not depend upon my familiarity with them. If I did and *it* did, then I would get familiar!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif If I am single handing a sail boat or turning a part on the lathe and Murphy drops in unexpectedly, I have a pretty good chance of reacting appropriately because of time spent and controls learned and internalized during these endeavours. I assume the case would be the same for one engaged in tactical maneuvers. If a flashlight is a piece of gear often used and well "learned" by the user, I would expect its degree of complexity of control could be greater than if it were to be used infrequently. With proper training, folks can fly jet aircraft with all kinds of controls and choices at their disposal. With less training and flight time, a single engine Cessna would be abetter choice of craft. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

I have no doubt than anyone can master this flashlight here. I guess the questions are: Will They? Do they need to? Does the utility warrent the effort? For the answers, I defer to the experts and I would guess that the answers will vary for different types of users. An inclusion of "bells and whistles" is inherently neither good or bad but often and significantly, one or the other to a serious degree.

As a non-tactical student of illumination tools, I look forward to seeing and trying the Gladius out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif In terms of beam performance, I anticipate a similar output to the L1-PR-T mentioned above. I am very curious to find out how close my expectations will mirror the reality. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Ken J. Good]

Hey guys,

Great conversation.

There is beauty and practical wisdom in simplicity no doubt. That being said there is a point that simplicity is outmatched by technology and the appropriate amount of training.

M4 carbines generally beat stones last time I checked…There are several levers you have to activate before dispensing energy from the M4 though..

If you had a choice would you take a sailplane or an F22 Raptor into combat if someone provided you the commensurate training? We can safely say the pilot has a plethora of options he must select from.

The professional challenge for us in developing this tool was packing the most USEFUL power/options into an interface and that one under duress could reasonable expect to operate given a moderate amount of familiarity with the new tool. Say 1 set of batteries worth of training.

One of the things we specifically did was ensure that in any mode, the light comes on FULL POWER. So that if you get confused under an "OH poop moment", you still had light to ID and deal with potential threats. My last check into officer involved shootings complied by the DOJ revealed that the average gun fight in done in less than 2.5 seconds.

There is no doubt about it, you must get familiar with this tool or don't take it with you in a fight.

I would be careful to immediate discount the benefits of the options this tool can give without having first run it through its paces.

Best to everybody.

 

[Kiessling]

I am with LowBat on this one ... breaks the KISS rule, and I like KISSes ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

But as I am not tactical at all ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ... I am open and waiting for the reviews to come ...

bernhard

 

[dougmccoy]

My work (paramedic) doesn't give me the luxury to muddle around. Quick thinking and familiarity with the equipment I use mean I dont have time to make mistakes. I've done my time in the military and it was the same there. Equipment, complex equipment, no matter how complicated, can be mastered with practice. If it's complicated and the purchasor cant devote the time to learning the equipment then he shouldn't have bought it! As is, I cant see the Gladius being issued to LEO's with the possible exception of SWAT teams and so it is more than likely that it will be for the individual to evaluate the complexity and risk analysis involved in going with the Gladius as an individual purchase. (Isn't this the same for anything you buy to use to defend yourself?)
For anyone to criticise the complexity or otherwise of the light before they've had a chance to handle or use it seems absurd. As to the observations that the majority on this forum are ordinary folks then I agree that this is probably true. However,it is illogical to assume because some people dont brag about their past that they haven't spoken without some perspective of credibility.

Doug

 

[Jetrider]

Night-Ops Gladius

Assuming that the Gladius lives up to the hype it will be THE light to have for all LEO - Military personel. That alone will make it a ground breaking product. As a LEO im impatiently awaiting the chance to get my hands on one.

I have Faith in Mr.Good His background speaks for itself. alot of serious R&D went into this product.

Cant wait!

 

[dougmccoy]

Re: Night-Ops Gladius

Jetrider,
Couldn't agree more
Doug

 

[greenLED]

Re: Night-Ops Gladius

This is a dream come true for me: an "intelligent clicky"! I know it's much more, but I'm limited by words right now. I absolutely love the tailcap/switch concept /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif The last tactical engagement I had was fight with my wife /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif but I still would love to have a multifunction switch in my lights, even for "civilian" use. Anywhoo, I do hope other manufacturers will incorporate this into their lights. I see lots of potential.

 

[Mark2]

Re: Night-Ops Gladius

I don't think that the Gladius is too complicated. After reading the PDF, I think I could use it right away. This is not like an ARC 4 where you have tons of options and just one button.

 

[Steve C]

Re: Night-Ops Gladius

Doug McCoy,

No doubt you were directing some of those comments at me. As I stated, MY comments were not aimed at anyone in particular. I was speaking of concepts; and the concept that one must constantly train with a complex piece of kit is well-proven. My point was that most of the folks here who might purchase one of these lights WILL NOT take the time/effort for it to become second-nature.

And I was NOT criticising the light itself. As you point out, doing so without even having seen one would be a bit odd, at least. I WAS criticising the concept of complexity under stress; as Bernhard stated, the K.I.S.S. principle rules in combat.

Mr. Good and his crew seem to have taken that into consideration, with the "full on first" feature.

 

[Ken J. Good]

Re: Night-Ops Gladius

Simply stated:

Actually operating the Gladius is much harder to explain than do.

Try explaining on paper, exactly how to change the batteries (in detail) on your flashlight as opposed to doing it.

Bottom line: It does not matter what I say, or put on a piece of paper, time and practical testing by end-users will be the definitive answer.

So far I have not had 1 negative comment (to my face anyway) about the "difficulty" of determining what to do with the light. It fact, the opposite reaction has been the case, followed up shortly by "When can I get one of those?".

Granted the ultimate test will be the combat environment.

We can only approximate some of this in rigorous force-on-force training, which staff members and student alike have deployed the Gladius. Lots of smiling faces tells us something is at fairly close to the mark...

I have sub-divided the world into 2 camps (the Cans and Cannots). For most of my professional career I have been hounded, told, lectured, and scathed for tabling new concepts. Nevertheless I really, really, really relish the idea of breaking boxes and pushing envelopes in order to bust out of externally imposed limits.

People generally resist change….

I will leave you this, the Gladius in terms of its operation has passed the ID-10T certification for tactical operations.

 

[strategos]

Night Ops Gladius Preorder Instructions

Just an FYI for those who have posted about preordering info.

We have all of the Gladius colors available for preorder at our websites at www.strategosstore.com and www.order-gear.com. We will collect all of the payment and shipping information at the time of the order, but will not bill credit cards until the lights are available for shipment. We will be fulfilling these orders on a first come, first served basis as lights are available. Thanks and let us know if we can help further.

Sincerely,

Lance Baker
Director, Strategos Professional Products, LLC
888-432-7966 or 1-816-899-2347
816-668-2267 Cell

 

[dougmccoy]

Re: Night Ops Gladius Preorder Instructions

Ken,

I'm really interested in the ceramic coating on the Gladius as this seems a first on a tactical light? I'm assuming that apart from the uniformity of application and the different colour shades that can be provided that this ceramic coating is tough? From the pictures of the Gladius which have been tested to extremes it appears very tough?
Doug

 

[Ken J. Good]

Re: Night Ops Gladius Preorder Instructions

This coating is used on a variety of metal surfaces that will face extreme duty.

Pencil Scratch Scale H1-H9, the standard gun coating on an M4 Carbine would be in the H3-H4 range.

The coating we are using rates an H9 and that only because it is highest number on the scale.

Some of the initial tests we broadcasted where done with the more familiar to flashlights Type III HA. Another entire larger batch of Gladius' are scheduled to be baked, frozen, immersed, shaken, shocked, dropped etc. as we are right next to full production.

What is true, is what you obviously already stated, exact color matching and uniformity between parts and runs.
There are also some hidden benefits in terms of managing heat and conductivity as well.

I have quite of few of the "other guys" flashlights and some of them have 3 different shades of OD on the same flashlight. Nothing to detract from the function, but if you can get uniformity and an eye pleasing result, that would certainly be preferable.

 

[BC0311]

Re: Night Ops Gladius Preorder Instructions

Sounds good! The ceramic coating is cutting edge. Like Don said, with what's at stake, the owner/user better master it. Like Ken said, it's far less complicated than an M4.

It sounds like it has been thoroughly thought through. Hey, how's that for alliteration?

Britt