Novatac vs Fenix??? Pros and Cons?

[Fathom]

My has a slight flickering issue on the lowest three levels but that doesn't diminish my love of the 120P.

The low end flickering worries me. Sounds like component tolerances/calibration, rather than battery level, dirty connections, cold solder joints, etc. and not user fixable.

My main application will be at lower settings for long durations. Flickering would bug the hell out of me :mecry:!

I have to wait and see, my order has not arrived yet.

 

[skyline_man]

Various people keep on mentioning that the Novatac Looks and feels superior to the P2D in terms of build quality and ruggedness. There is however a difference between looking rugged and being rugged. The 120P may look and feel more rugged than the P2D, but im willing to bet that if you threw both the 120P and the P2D hard at a wall numerous times - the P2D will outlast the 120P. Thats cos the 120P is a lot more heavier than the P2D resulting in more force impacted on it's internal components.

 

[Wattnot]

Stoke up the popper. This is gonna be good!

:naughty:

 

[Beastmaster]

Various people keep on mentioning that the Novatac Looks and feels superior to the P2D in terms of build quality and ruggedness. There is however a difference between looking rugged and being rugged. The 120P may look and feel more rugged than the P2D, but im willing to bet that if you threw both the 120P and the P2D hard at a wall numerous times - the P2D will outlast the 120P. Thats cos the 120P is a lot more heavier than the P2D resulting in more force impacted on it's internal components.

Okay - I'll take your analogy in this manner.

Put a Super Heavyweight boxer and a middleweight boxer into the same ring. Who will win?

To further this discussion:

Forward click switches (which I classify the Novatac as one despite the fact that the switch really is a signal sender, not a true "switch") will always be less durable than a reverse click switch. This is because spring tension is used to help make the connection, not fight with it.

I guarantee that if I threw a (non T1) Fenix against a brick wall I will break it relatively quickly. I also guarantee that if I threw a Novatac against the same brick wall, I will break it. I know I will break the clip off of a T1 Fenix by staring at it (joke....). I've tried destroying my SF 6P and I still can't.

To me and I suspect others - this part of the discussion is a moot point. Some of us can destroy flashlights. So why even worry - everything breaks.

-Steve

 

[Beastmaster]

I'll take this one step further.

Take a Hummer and a Yugo. Slam both into an off angle barrier at 55mph.

Which would have their occupants survive better?

Smaller does NOT necessarily mean better.

-Steve

 

[skyline_man]

I guarantee that if I threw a (non T1) Fenix against a brick wall I will break it relatively quickly.

From memory one member actually did a drop test on the T1 and their P2D and stated that the P2D seemed to be better off than the T1 due to its lighter weight.

I'll take this one step further.

Take a Hummer and a Yugo. Slam both into an off angle barrier at 55mph.

Which would have their occupants survive better?

Smaller does NOT necessarily mean better.

I take your example even one step further. How about your Hummer vs a MUCH smaller Mercedes which is 5 star safety rated and has crumple zones to absorb the force and rigid passenger safety cell to protect the occupants along with air bags? The occupants in your Hummer will be mashed and splattered everywhere, while the ones in the Merc will just walk away with a bruise. Bigger aint always better mate.
And from what i can recall, the electronic circuitry in the Fenix is resin coated - which provides additional shock protection.

 

[skyline_man]

Okay - I'll take your analogy in this manner.

Put a Super Heavyweight boxer and a middleweight boxer into the same ring. Who will win?

And i'll take your example one step further. Throw the heavyweight boxer and middleweight boxer off 10 floor building. Who will make a bigger mess?
Have you ever heard of the saying - "The bigger they are, the harder they fall"?

 

[robo21]

Various people keep on mentioning that the Novatac Looks and feels superior to the P2D in terms of build quality and ruggedness. There is however a difference between looking rugged and being rugged. The 120P may look and feel more rugged than the P2D, but im willing to bet that if you threw both the 120P and the P2D hard at a wall numerous times - the P2D will outlast the 120P. Thats cos the 120P is a lot more heavier than the P2D resulting in more force impacted on it's internal components.

The 120 series was designed for tactical use for the military and law enforcement. It is heavy because it has a thicker and sturdier body. Your hypothesis is your conjecture - period. It is based on nothing more than your own personal prejudices which you have already established as being plentiful and basically anti-Novatac.

There are threads on the forum that show what kind of abuse both the HDS precursors and the Novatac series can handle. Repeated drops and tosses until the light is scarred and they still work. Here's a thought dude, why don't you buy one and try your test! Abuse both and see which outlasts the other.

You are the prime example of the intended purpose of the forum's "Ignore List."

 

[skyline_man]

You are the prime example of the intended purpose of the forum's "Ignore List."

No need to get on the defensive mate. I was just stating my opinion. If you don't agree with my opinion then simply state yours along with logical reasoning and move on. There is no need to get personal. This is what forums are for - to share information and have debates. Putting me on your "Ignore List" for this reason is just being plane childish.
If you don't know already, i actually love the 120P. It's my favourite light, period. I just don't think that it's as durable as the P2D from personal experience. It may look and feel tough, but it's fancy circuitry is very prone to shock and damage.

 

[Steve L]

I believe it was the HDS EDC(the 120P's precursor) that was thrown against the wall 100 times and kept working.

 

[robo21]

No need to get on the defensive mate. I was just stating my opinion. If you don't agree with my opinion then simply state yours along with logical reasoning and move on. There is no need to get personal. This is what forums are for - to share information and have debates. Putting me on your "Ignore List" for this reason is just being plane childish.
If you don't know already, i actually love the 120P. It's my favourite light, period. I just don't think that it's as durable as the P2D from personal experience. It may look and feel tough, but it's fancy circuitry is very prone to shock and damage.

Unlike you I'm stating well established facts while you are throwing out obviously unfounded suppositions about a light that has a proven and well established track record. After going through 3 Fenix's to get one that worked correctly, I do have some experience with Fenix flashlights. Even then, the beam quality was lacking and the UI sucks.

Basically all you've done is state "I think that if you abused both lights equally, the Fenix might outlast the Novatac because the Fenix is lighter." You have offered no factual evidence other than your own supposition. Whereas, if you would have taken the time to use the search function you could find much information about HDS precusor and Novatac sturdiness.

Based on my experience and in my opinion Fenix lights are NOT even close to being in the same league as the Novatac series.

"Childish?" take a look at your avatar. Trolling and baiting are also childish and a violation of forum rules. You have been warned on several occasions for these violations by forum mods and now are somewhat more veiled and stealthy in your trolling and baiting activities. They are nonetheless apparent.

Perhaps you would consider posting when you have something factual and useful to contribute rather than fictional and unfounded.

 

[robo21]

I believe it was the HDS EDC(the 120P's precursor) that was thrown against the wall 100 times and kept working.

:thumbsup:

 

[Beastmaster]

There is a well documented issue where a BMW X5 crossed the center line and hit a Border Patrol Hummer H1 in an off angle frontal impact. Combined MPH was 130 at impact.

Guess who lived. It wasn't the BMW driver. As soon as I get home, I'll be more than happy to post the pics.

Mass wins. End of story.

-Steve

From memory one member actually did a drop test on the T1 and their P2D and stated that the P2D seemed to be better off than the T1 due to its lighter weight.



I take your example even one step further. How about your Hummer vs a MUCH smaller Mercedes which is 5 star safety rated and has crumple zones to absorb the force and rigid passenger safety cell to protect the occupants along with air bags? The occupants in your Hummer will be mashed and splattered everywhere, while the ones in the Merc will just walk away with a bruise. Bigger aint always better mate.
And from what i can recall, the electronic circuitry in the Fenix is resin coated - which provides additional shock protection.

 

[precisionworks]

the 120P is a lot more heavier than the P2D resulting in more force impacted on it's internal components.

Silly me. I did not realize that someone quietly changed the laws of physics.

I know I will break the clip off of a T1 Fenix by staring at it

 

[skyline_man]

Basically all you've done is state "I think that if you abused both lights equally, the Fenix might outlast the Novatac because the Fenix is lighter." You have offered no factual evidence other than your own supposition.

No factual evidence? Look in this forum and im sure you will find plenty of 120P owners complaining about their light not working after a drop. Sure, there are similar Fenix P2D owners with faulty lights as well, but logically by applying the laws of physics which states that Force equals Mass multiplied by the acceleration. F=MA.
Using this equation, you can see that the force impacted on the Novatac is a lot higher than that of the Fenix. Now since the outside body of both lights are thick and strong enough that they dont get crushed from being thrown at a wall, we can assume that most of the force is transferred on impact from the body to the internals of the light.
Now, i know that the circuitry of the Fenix is a lot more simple than those of the Novatac and that the Fenix circuit board is encased in resin which futher protects it.
So if i add it up, i can come to a pretty reasonble conclusion that the Fenix will outlast the Novatac in a wall throwing contest don't you think so?

I'm not going to get into an argument with you. It's obvious that you take my opinion of the Novatac as a personal attack on you. :thinking:

 

[Beastmaster]

And i'll take your example one step further. Throw the heavyweight boxer and middleweight boxer off 10 floor building. Who will make a bigger mess?
Have you ever heard of the saying - "The bigger they are, the harder they fall"?

Yes, I have. But I can guarantee that if you put two boxers into that exact situation - the middleweight boxer is going out on a stretcher as well as the heavyweight boxer.

There was some sort of fight science type episode on National Geographic or Discovery Channel or TLC where they measured the force amount of a light heavyweight boxer versus a karate expert who would weigh in at the light middleweight class.

Guess who generated deadly force versus merely force that would injure. It wasn't the karate expert.

-Steve

 

[gunga]

No factual evidence? Look in this forum and im sure you will find plenty of 120P owners complaining about their light not working after a drop.

I own both a P2D and Novatac. I like the Novatac much better.

I have also read a lot about both. Both are great for different reasons as outlined in most of the posts here.

I have read all about the Novatac and have NEVER seen anything about a broken switch after dropping it. There are other issues here and there, but I've never seen that kind of failure.



I have read Fenix stories about lights dieing after a small drop.

That said, both lights are well built and I do like both. Just stating what I've seen.

 

[skyline_man]

Unlike you I'm stating well established facts while you are throwing out obviously unfounded suppositions about a light that has a proven and well established track record.

Perhaps you would consider posting when you have something factual and useful to contribute rather than fictional and unfounded.

Someone is a hypocrite here????!!

So you are saying that the Novatac will outlast the Fenix P2D in a wall throwing contest? Where's your proof? Where is the direct test?

What you are saying is just your opinion which is formed by your own personal experience and accumulated information and IS NOT PROVEN!!!:shakehead

 

[Beastmaster]

Stoke up the popper. This is gonna be good!

:naughty:

Not really. This conversation is getting to the strange and irritating.

Brand names aside - If I take a 5 pound engineer's hammer (basically a small sledge) and beat up on any of the flashlights mentioned (and some not mentioned yet), it's going to break. Even my vaunted and well abused SF 6P will break if I start to beat up on it with the aforementioned hammer.

On top of that - we're seeing two different flashlights with two different purposes being compared. It's like comparing a minivan to a 3/4 ton diesel truck. Both get you from point A to point B, but both are different conveyances with different capabilities.

This is where the idiocy begins, and I admit adding to it in some ways. The two lights are targeted to different markets, sold in different ways, and their only commonality are the fact that they use CR123A primaries. They use different LED's, use different interface styles, and even have different click switch methods (with the Fenix being a reverse click AND twist).

So this whole thing starts off strange and is headed into an even stranger baitfest with inaccurate suppositions getting thrown out there to boot.

My thoughts - until I see a non T1 model Fenix get abused like the T1's have - it's not a strong enough and durable enough light. End of story. Unless someone's willing to subject their P2 series unit to everything from Tesla coils to being shot at - I will likely never buy one. I would consider the T1 because of the fact that it was abused as well as it has been.

-Steve

 

[skyline_man]

You are right about the 2 boxers and I am right about the 2 boxers. It all depends on the situation.

In my example with the P2D and 120P, they are not fighting each other here - they are fighting against the wall. And i hope that we both can agree with each other that the wall will win.