Standard Transmission?

winny

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Although slightly off topic, I have a question:

What do you call the point where your clutch just begins to pull (you forward)? That is, if you want to start in an uphill without rolling backwards and hitting the car behind you, you want to reach this point on your clutch and meet with your gas while using your handbrake (as you don't have three feet, hopefully). I hope you guys know what I'm talking about. It's mandatory to know how to do that here in order to get your drivers license.

I've asked around here if anyone knows a word for it in English but no one knew of any. Directly translated from Swedish it would be pull-spot or pull-point (dragläge).
 

bfg9000

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One English term is initial engagement; that one arrives before full engagement with take-up in between. But I have heard grab-point used also.

Some cars have a line-lock or hill-holder arrangement which prevents the car from rolling backwards, and would probably be helpful during such a license exam.
 
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winny

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Grab-point, that's excellent! Thank you very much bfg9000!

You are not allowed to use any aids at the drivers test here, other than ABS (or do you call it anti-lock breaks over there?).
 

KC2IXE

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I've own both, but around here (NYC) where you do 90% of your driving in stop and go traffic, an automatic is nice. If I lived in the 'burbs, I'd go back to a standard - right now, I have a slushbox (al so my wife can drive the truck)
 

geepondy

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Too much stop and go driving in heavy traffic has done it in for me ever wanting to go back to an manual unless of course I was driving a sporty or sports car.
 

jayflash

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I don't notice the constant shifting in heavy, city, traffic. You might say that for some of us - shift just happens! ;) If I'm in our other car ('98 Lumina LTZ) I keep it in 2nd of the 4 speed automatic's gears when city bound. There's too much lag time with new electronically controlled autos and constant 2 - 3 & 3 - 2 hunting in city traffic. Perhaps a kit would improve response but there's nothing like doing it yourself with a stick. :)
 

cobb

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When I get into heavy traffic I leave it in first and just roll along. Sometimes I will leave a few feet between me and the car in front of me to absorbe the starting and stopping, but its common for folks to merge infront of me. With my van that had the automatic, I was always ridding or stopping with the brake as it rolled faster than traffic moved when in gear.
 

Chris201W

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winny said:
Although slightly off topic, I have a question:

What do you call the point where your clutch just begins to pull (you forward)? That is, if you want to start in an uphill without rolling backwards and hitting the car behind you, you want to reach this point on your clutch and meet with your gas while using your handbrake (as you don't have three feet, hopefully). I hope you guys know what I'm talking about. It's mandatory to know how to do that here in order to get your drivers license.

I've asked around here if anyone knows a word for it in English but no one knew of any. Directly translated from Swedish it would be pull-spot or pull-point (dragläge).
I've never really given it a specific name. I just call it the point when the clutch first begins to engage.

One note about the handbrake: it actually is possible to start on a hill without using the handbrake. Depending on the car and the size of your feet/legs, you can work the clutch with your left foot (obviously) and at the same time, work the gas and the brake with your right foot. With your heel still on the brake, you can give it a little gas with the toe of your right foot. I imagine it takes a fair amount of practice to get good at, but it is an alternative to the handbrake.
 

Bror Jace

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Call me a purist, elitist or merely hopelessly old-school but I love standards/manuals and really dislike automatic transmissions ... although that's obviously where the industry is headed. Everything in life seems to be getting dumbed-down and autos are no exception.

Autos have some advantages ... they are easier to take off road ... serious off roading that really challenges your skill and vehicle. Robinhood4x4 explained much of this.

Traditionally, standard transmissions have the following advantages (generalizations):

1) They are lighter
2) They cost less
3) They are more fuel efficient
4) They are cheaper to maintain
5) They are more reliable, last longer
6) They are cheaper to fix and/or replace.

However, more and more auto companies are coming out with 5+ speed automatics that get better mileage than standards. The reason is not about the technology of the two systems but an odd reason I'm not too happy about. Automatics can downshift while on cruise control, standards can't. So, companies are beginning to make the top gear in the automatic longer (higher ratio, lower number) than the same car with a manual. This really pi$$es me off. I want a standard tranny with that super-lazy gear ratio! :mad:

I prefer standard transmissions even in heavy traffic. With very careful pacing of traffic, you can set a slow, steady pace in either 1st or 2nd gear without much shifting or coming to a complete stop (Cobb hinted at this). You need to be a good driver who is paying careful attention to the traffic (as you should be anyway!) and by the way, you'll be doing a favor for everyone stuck behind you. :)

With the way things are headed, I'll probably have to buy an automatic sometime before I die ... but not too much before. ;)
 

cobb

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Maybe I am doing it wrong or I have a superior clutch release system with my mercedes 240d when you stop and start up a hill. It does have a hydrolic clutch release system vs the cable or rods and links.

I just up shift til I get a comfortable few inches from the guy in front of me, step on the brake, disengage the clutch and shift to first while rolling forward to a stop. (Sometimes while stopped it wont go into first.) Then to creep forward I will release the clutch 20% or so and as the car start to flex its front end upwards and rear end downwards I let up some on the brake to go forward. For steeper hills I give it 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and release the clutch more up to 90%. Real trick to not stall the 60hp diesel under the hood is to not be afraid to floor it then let up.

Every now and then on a grade I find I meet the stall speed of my engine. I have it floored, clutch released 90% and the engine is at an rpm just above idle, but with a more throatie sound and I am not going anywhere. THe driveway at the walmart in colonial heights, va the drive way that faces target is a prime example. I will push the clutch in slightly til the engine increases in speed then release it again up to 90% and it will start to move, then I let off of the gas some, release clutch 100% and shortly shift to 2nd and go about my way.

My problem with auto or manual trannys is how do you accelerate going up a grade in wet weather once you break traction? My benz and van can both squeal tires going up a grade turning into traffic and in both cases if I let off I loose the movement to get out of my own way and into traffic in a timely manner. If I keep the quarter or half throttle it will squeal for a few feet then stop and I give it more gas and start shifting gears and going.

FYI, if you want to have some fun, squealing tires on either, rev it up to a good rpm for torque then shift it into gear or release the clutch. Just becareful as if you have any play in the uv joints, they are the first to go.
 

bfg9000

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If popularity (as in Google fight club) was the only measure of correctness, then we'd all have automatics and Maglights.
wink.gif
 

Diesel_Bomber

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I've never driven an automatic that I thought shifted right. My wife's Intrepid was probably the worst. Romp on the gas, the engine would load, and wait.......wait..........wait..........read a couple chapters in a book.......wait.........for the transmission to sort itself out, down shift, and go. The only autos I could have tolerated were a Chrysler and an Aston Martin, but in both cases I WAS TELLING THE TRANSMISSION WHEN TO SHIFT. If I'm going to tell it when to shift, then forget it, I'll shift for myself too. Like Bror Jace, I prefer a standard in heavy traffic too. Just don't notice the shifting, like walking or steering; it's not a concious thought at all.

Cobb- I've only driven one diesel Mercedes, and it was on level ground. I know you're going to take what I say with lots of salt, but add a bit more. It sounds like you're letting out your clutch too much, too fast. Keep the engine revs up and don't let the clutch out so much that your engine lugs. Don't be afraid to give it throttle. Not losing traction in wet weather is just a matter of finesse and judging how much traction you have for the existing conditions, you'll get it with practice. You might go find an empty parking lot and practice while it's wet. I do frequently, it's fun if nothing more. :)

:buddies:
 

NeonLights

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Our Mustang GT, Miata, and Mini Cooper are all manual transmission cars, but out family wagon (a Ford Freestyle) has a CVT transmission. OUt of the 20+ cars my wife and I have owned, at least 3/4 of them have had standard transmissions. My wife and I both learned how to drive stick shift cars first (me when I was 13), and I actually had trouble during my driver's education training because the car I was in was an auto, I wasn't used to my left foot doing nothing, and I kept hitting the brake pedal with it. I had to "learn" how to drive an auto, it took some geting used to.

I've only bought autos when I had little choice otherwise, like buying a used car where 90% of the cars available were auto trans cars or a standard wasn't available at all, like many wagons and minivans and SUV's. Generally speaking, a manual trans car will get better mpg, put more horsepower down to the wheels, and require less maintenance, although some of the newer computer controlled 5 and 6-speed autos are making big strides in mpg and hp delivery. Those are sure going to be expensive to repair or replace though. I've never had a clutch go out on a car, in nearly 400,000 miles of driving manual trans cars, many of them to well over 100k miles.

I'm not elitist about it, except to the extent that I think it is tragic that so many people want autos that MTX cars are slowly disappearing from the US. I've driven a number of sporty cars like the Corvette, Viper, S2000, Mustang Cobra, Miata, and others, and I wouldn't get anywhere near the same level of enjoyment out of them with an auto trans.

-Keith
 

Flea Bag

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I started out learning and driving with manual so I would have the licence to drive both. I don't drive anywhere other than the city and that means traffic jams, stop and go, waiting on multi-story carpark ramps etc... So I'm a fan of auto.

I just can't stand having to manipulate the clutch. No offence but I have always found it to be very primitive. I do agree that humans are better at deciding which gears to use. However, it has already been proven that humans suck at the actual gear change itself-as far as clutch and stick are concerned.

F1, Le Mans prototypes, WRC, basically the most advanced motorsport cars and some of the best road-legal supercars are all testament to this. Semi-auto, CVT or a more customisable full auto is the future in terms of speed, safety, convenience, reliability and efficiency.
 

KingSmono

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I live in Orlando, and drive in stop-n-go every day of my life on the parking lot known as the 408... but I wouldn't trade my manual in for anything. In fact, my next car is going to be a manual as well.

I really don't mind/notice it when going to work in the mornings... but those few times that I'm on a twisty, open road TOTALLY make it worth it. :)
 

robinhood4x4

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bfg9000 said:
If popularity (as in Google fight club) was the only measure of correctness, then we'd all have automatics and Maglights.
wink.gif
Are you implying I shouldn't have used googlefight to decide who and what I voted for??!? :laughing:

Oh, and to continue with my earlier post on the attributes of each transmission while off road...my miata is a manual tranny and I wouldn't want it any other way. It's just too much fun.
 
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