True cost to run EV like paying $17.33 per gallon if not for $22 billion in government subsidies.

alpg88

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I think before you replace a button on a ripped dirty jacket, you shroud wash and saw the holes up, but we seem to ignore dirt and holes and focus on buttons
 

Monocrom

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A lot of people are getting tired of the war against people by the oil and car companies. Pedestrian deaths in the US have been increasing to a 30 year high. More than half the real estate in cities is taken up by parking. Our foreign policy and military spending is built around oil but I never see that cost factored into the cost per mile for oil powered transportation.
If you can think of a better idea that is just as practical as cars for the needs of the people, please share. Also, half the real estate?? No, not even remotely. If anything the vast majority of busy, packed with people, neighborhoods in NYC have almost no place to park. Been that way for decades. Same is true in other major, U.S. cities. Quite frankly, it's common practice to hire a car service if one wants to do shopping at a specialty shop outside of their neighborhood. Get dropped off. Shop. Call the car service to send one of their vehicles to pick you up. Very common practice.

I was once relieved three hours late from my 3rd shift job because my relief had a morning doctor's appointment. Told me all about it. Asked if I could stay behind about half to one hour longer than usual. I agreed. For some incredibly stupid reason, he decided to take his car into a neighborhood known for being a nightmare to park at. Took him nearly an hour to get a parking spot. By that time, his appointment was gone. He had to wait. Should have taken a taxi.

Heck, I wish parking structures took up half the real estate in my city. Car Park owners would become Billionaires overnight and average citizens would be happy they don't have to sometimes spend an hour hunting for a parking spot, or be forced to pay higher rates to take a taxi.

Edit: Typo.
 

Monocrom

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That and Opium are a real issue here. One of my friends that I grew up with got addicted to methamphetamines and turned to a life of crime. At some point he started doing home invasions and was trying to rob a mother at gun point. She wouldn't give up her purse so he beat her in front of her child. All to feed his addiction. I think they should take the addicts and burn them to death in cages but instead the police keep them on the streets even though they have no usable skills, rob the working class, and drain limited resources.
Genuinely sorry about what happened to your friend.
And, very sorry he became a monster.
 

jtr1962

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If you can think of a better idea that is just as practical as cars for the needs of the people, please share. Also, half the real estate?? No, not even remotely. If anything the vast majority of busy, packed with people, neighborhoods in NYC have almost no place to park. Been that way for decades. Same is true in other major, U.S. cities. Quite frankly, it's common practice to hire a car service if one wants to do shopping at a specialty shop outside of their neighborhood. Get dropped off. Shop. Call the car service to send one of their vehicles to pick you up. Very common practice.
The reference is more to the so-called parking craters which are in many other US cities:



When the auto age come upon us in the 1950s we tried to shoehorn cars into places not really meant for large numbers of them. Of course, people who drove in needed a place to park. End result is many buildings were razed and turned into parking lots. Cities died because of it. The downtown people loved was now just a collection of parking lots. Expressways through cities made things even worse.

The only reason New York remained vital is precisely because it has very little parking per capita relative to other cities. Sure, this, and the ever present congestion, makes driving anywhere a real pain. But it's kept the city relevant, plus also drawn in lots of tourists. If there's any problems with it, it's that we haven't invested enough in public transit so as to serve more of the city. That's why many people are taking taxis or Ubers these days, instead of public transit like they used to. Other cities like Tokyo don't even let you have a car unless you have an off-street place to park it. As a result, far fewer people there drive but they don't have to. The public transit system is magnificent. Clean, fast, on-time. Not like the subways here, which are often filthy, slow, late, along with being crime-ridden lately.
Heck, I wish parking structures took up half the real estate in my city. Car Park owners would become Billionaires overnight and average citizens would be happy they don't have to sometimes spend an hour hunting for a parking spot, or be forced to pay higher rates to take a taxi.
The thing is in much of the city in order for a builder to make a profit, the spaces would need to rent for upwards of $1,000 a month. Many car owners here are close to broke. They couldn't afford $100 a month to park, never mind $1,000. These are the people who you see doing their car "repairs" with duct tape. That included my father, who repaired his ripped vinyl roof with white duct tape.

What offers more hope to get around the city, assuming we don't finally fix the subways here, are autonomous taxis. They pick you up, drop you off, then go to the next person waiting. Since they'll usually always be in motion, no worries about space to park them. At night when demand drops, you can park all of them in one lane of an expressway. Late nights the capacity of that lane isn't needed anyway. For that matter, if someone has an autonomous personal vehicle, you can do the same. Just program the vehicle to be at your door at whatever time you need it the next day. No worries about parking. Your car will be much safer from vandalism/theft sitting on an expressway than by the curb on a local street.
 

Monocrom

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NYC is always going to be relevant. A few strategically placed, multi-level parking lots in neighborhoods that desperately need them, isn't going to change that. Plus, building upwards means no need to tear down numerous buildings just to increase parking spots to a rational degree.

Also, not sure how the City managed to pull it off, but certain side streets in Astoria that used to be two lanes are now one. With spaces painted onto the street itself of what used to be the lane nearest the sidewalk. Yup, those have been turned into, for lack of a better term, artificial parking spots. And, they're always full up! This city is in desperate need of more parking spots. If public transportation was properly managed with every crowded and busy NYC neighborhood being serviced just as much as those in Manhattan; the parking issue wouldn't be an issue.

While I like cars. I don't like driving one, don't like owning it, and certainly don't like having to pay ridiculous insurance rates, state taxes, and other associated fees just to reliably get to and from my two jobs. And, once a week to and from the Supermarket. NYC has done a horrendously poor job of managing resources when it comes to public transportation.
 

idleprocess

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While I like cars. I don't like driving one, don't like owning it, and certainly don't like having to pay ridiculous insurance rates, state taxes, and other associated fees just to reliably get to and from my two jobs. And, once a week to and from the Supermarket. NYC has done a horrendously poor job of managing resources when it comes to public transportation.
I feel similar. 2021 during the vehicle availability crisis I was giving some though to selling my daily driver, funneling some of the proceeds into resolving my other vehicle's minor issues, and pocketing the rest. But invariably the company started making rumblings about a new office location so I didn't and whadayaknow in 2022 they bought a property with the promise that return to office was going to happen. Flash forward to early/mid-2023 and there's a soft mandate to be in the office twice weekly.

Sure there's a train, but it's more than twice as long bookended by a ~15 minute drive and a ~15 minute walk. The walk is the problem - Dallas ain't known for its gentle summer climate ~6 months of the year.

So the daily remains on the books, consuming fuel/maintenance/insurance, ensuring that its TCO racks up to well over twice its purchase price by the time it's all said and done. No tolls on the way to the new office but one wonders if I-35E will force a thunderdome situation on its users with distressing frequency.
 

LuxLuthor

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Was talking to a friend who wanted to buy a new car, and there were none at Honda and Toyota dealers. None. Those weren't even part of the UAW strike. Not sure why.
 

idleprocess

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Was talking to a friend who wanted to buy a new car, and there were none at Honda and Toyota dealers. None. Those weren't even part of the UAW strike. Not sure why.
Substitute goods effect perhaps although I don't know that UAW strike has much depleted inventories.
 

Monocrom

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Strike is the best thing that could have happened to the Big Three.
Now they can jack-up prices even more and claim that the strike has caused a shortage of supply. Nevermind the fact that no one was buying work trucks priced at over $80K. Now, no one is buying trucks priced at over 100K!
 

jtr1962

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NYC is always going to be relevant. A few strategically placed, multi-level parking lots in neighborhoods that desperately need them, isn't going to change that. Plus, building upwards means no need to tear down numerous buildings just to increase parking spots to a rational degree.
Sure, especially in the outer boroughs where you often already have huge lots for big box stores. Why not put multi-level garages on those lots instead and multiply the parking? They're already being used for car storage anyway, so it's not like you're knocking down something else to build a garage.
Also, not sure how the City managed to pull it off, but certain side streets in Astoria that used to be two lanes are now one. With spaces painted onto the street itself of what used to be the lane nearest the sidewalk. Yup, those have been turned into, for lack of a better term, artificial parking spots. And, they're always full up! This city is in desperate need of more parking spots.
They did this on the service road of Queens Blvd. in the early 2000s I think-turned one of the two travel lanes into parking. Then removed the extra parking lane a few years ago when they made the bike lane. Queens Blvd. is actually a major through route for bikes, so I kind of agree there, but I also think it would have been a great place to try out the elevated bike lanes I've been pushing for like 2 decades. No lost parking, and cyclists ride right above intersections, instead of getting caught at red signals.
If public transportation was properly managed with every crowded and busy NYC neighborhood being serviced just as much as those in Manhattan; the parking issue wouldn't be an issue.
Yep, and we could do it too without higher taxes or fees if the MTA got their financial house in order.
While I like cars. I don't like driving one, don't like owning it, and certainly don't like having to pay ridiculous insurance rates, state taxes, and other associated fees just to reliably get to and from my two jobs. And, once a week to and from the Supermarket. NYC has done a horrendously poor job of managing resources when it comes to public transportation.
Same here. Despite my seeming anti-car stance in a lot of my posts, from an engineering standpoint I actually like cars. Anything new, like EVs, really gets me interested. But being that I live in NYC, car ownership is expensive, driving pretty much sucks, parking is a nightmare, etc. Car ownership only makes sense here if you really need one. I never did, so I never owned one. But if I had to, I'd probably resent it because the only reason for it would be inadequate public transit in many areas.
 

alpg88

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I do own a car, always did, I only used it to go to work when I worked in Brooklyn, and long island. When in the city, I took trains, or x28-x29 busses. Almost every weekend we get out of the city, either upstate, and PA. So we need a car, I do have a parking spot by our building. insurance for Brooklyn cost me 3500 a year, full coverage. It is not cheap to have a car in nyc, but sometimes a car is the only practical way to get places.
 
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Progress is an interesting thing. I'm positive the final destination won't be lithium batteries but I'm excited to see where they lead us.

That being said, I'm perfectly happy riding my bike as much as possible. Good cardio.
 

bykfixer

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At my work we have a big safety program. We are asked to turn in what they call "near miss" or "observation" reports a couple times a year. The other day I wrote a report "look both ways before crossing the parking lot since EV's are nearly silent".

It's kinda silly simple really. Yet I see these vegan youngsters with their head down all depressed-like crossing the parking lot without even looking up. Most drivers will stop for them. But you know there are people texting, looking at fakebook, talking to their kid in the back seat and so on. And except for the sound the tires make an EV is near silent. On a breezy day you won't even hear that.

Lately I work at a building with about 5 acres of parking spaces and see 1 Tesla. The rest are internal combustion engine vehicles. Lots of Lexus, Porsche, even Maserati's. So it aint like they can't afford an EV. I suppose they just don't want them.

One floor is occupied by an ATF tactical division so they all drive government owned Chevy's bought when the US government bailed out GM. Yup, these bearded, burly dudes all come and go in Chevy Malibu's, Cobalts and other Chevy made passenger cars.
 
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Monocrom

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One floor is occupied by an ATF tactical division so they all drive government owned Chevy's bought when the US government bailed out GM. Yup, these bearded, burly dudes all come and go in Chevy Malibu's, Cobalts and other Chevy made passenger cars.
Heck, if someone gave me a free car to use, with insurance, registration, gas credit card, and all associated taxes and fees taken care of along with routine maintenance and repairs; I'd drive whatever they gave me.

"Oh, is that a pink Nissan Juke? Yes, thank you very much."
 

orbital

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+

Told ya there would be on-board generators for EVs' :geek:

Pentastar V6 under the hood as a 130-kW onboard generator



 

alpg88

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that is basically how some nyc buses work. but they actually have a gas turbine turning the generator, not a piston engine of any kind.
 

jtr1962

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Heck, if someone gave me a free car to use, with insurance, registration, gas credit card, and all associated taxes and fees taken care of along with routine maintenance and repairs; I'd drive whatever they gave me.
Even if it was a Yugo?
 

jtr1962

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Told ya there would be on-board generators for EVs' :geek:

Pentastar V6 under the hood as a 130-kW onboard generator



Congratulations, they just essentially reinvented the diesel locomotive, except that most don't have batteries. At least they do away with a complex, multi-speed mechanical transmission. Honestly, even before we had batteries suitable for EVs we should have made ICEs that way. The ICE turns a generator which powers electric motors driving the wheels. The engine would be able to run at its most efficient speed all the time (less wear and tear from constantly changing speeds). No transmission to break. Far better control of speed/acceleration.
And except for the sound the tires make an EV is near silent. On a breezy day you won't even hear that.
That's kind of the point. The new Amazon electric delivery vans are quieter than most e-bikes. Motorists are obligated to avoid hitting pedestrians at all times, even if they're crossing blindfolded.
Lately I work at a building with about 5 acres of parking spaces and see 1 Tesla. The rest are internal combustion engine vehicles. Lots of Lexus, Porsche, even Maserati's. So it aint like they can't afford an EV. I suppose they just don't want them.
They might but most of those brands aren't making EVs yet in any large numbers. Also, they might not happen to be in the market for a new car right now. Most people wear their old car out first before buying a new one. Or maybe nothing currently available appeals to them. The wealthy often have very specific tastes.

To really get to mass market penetration EVs need to start catering to the sub $10K market.
 
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