Why I won't be buying a SureFire U2

[Kiessling]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif ...
It is a complete misperception because you forget the reasons why moderation has to happen. Take the time to read the thread and actually think about what is posted ... please. It would really help to avoid those useless and desruptive as well as polarizing threads in the future.#

Again: any discussion about the product and its features is more than welcome as long as you don't attack the manufacturer with some personal agenda and / or attack the CPFers who actually buy those lights. It is not moderation that is out of line here ... it's the unjustified and personal attacks.

bernhard

 

[Darell]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

[ QUOTE ]
Steve C said:
Its not a misperception, MrDead. I noticed it too. But the reason is not hard to understand. I have seen, more than once, the remark by one of the moderators that SF is a big contributor/supporter of this forum. Do the math.

[/ QUOTE ]
You guys are mixing your messages for sure. You've taken some obvious facts, and used them to make a point that does not exist. SF (well, actually PK) is a significant contributor to CPF. Quite true. But do you remember *why* that message is posted every so often? It is typically in response to member comments about SF not caring about CPF, or treating CPF members like dog poop. SF/PK has done more to keep this forum financially healthy than is being credited. The fact that SF contributes to CPF has nothing to do with any "protection" that we offer SF. We have no need, nor do we have the time for any petty "protection" of a company who's products speak for themselves. If you like the product and the company, great. If you don't like the company and/or the product, that's just fine too. They aren't trying to buy our love, and we aren't selling it. There is no problem in complaining about SF or their products. Should I say that again, or put in in bold? The problem we've seen is *how* the complaining is done - regardless of who or what the complaint is about. Read back through and see if you can figure that one out. (I even spelled it out in one of my earlier posts - and that info seems to have been completely ignored)


You guys have put me in a lose-lose situation here, which is why I've avoided commenting more. I lose if I comment because I may be viewed as a CPF "heavyweight" since I'm an Admin. And if I comment, of course I'm again "protecting" SF. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

And I lose if I don't comment because no comment is often perceived as acceptance of the accusations. Oh, and did I mention that I don't *like* to be in a lose-lose situation?

So here are the comments from a double-loser. Can we move on to something relevant now, please?

 

[MrBenchmark]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

[ QUOTE ]
Kiessling said:
Again: any discussion about the product and its features is more than welcome as long as you don't attack the manufacturer with some personal agenda and / or attack the CPFers who actually buy those lights. It is not moderation that is out of line here ... it's the unjustified and personal attacks.

bernhard

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/clap.gif

Well said. I'm new here, but I sure don't see a bias towards one manufacturer over another. So the thing I've found most useful about CPF is the civil discussion of the tradeoffs in price / performance / features of various lights.

What I saw on these threads was a discussion over the U2 being an "engineering disaster" by folks who don't own one that pretty much amounted to:
1. It doesn't go click-click-click when you turn the dial.
2. Don't like the color of the HA III
3. Don't like SF's business model
4. U2's LED works just like every other Lux V out there.
5. Too big
6. Too expensive
The conclusion was that they weren't buying a U2 because it sucked bigtime. These "technical issues" pretty much sound like personal preferences to me. I just can't see how the conclusion that U2 is junk is helpful or even justified based on these reasons. The decision about whether or not to buy one based on reasons like these is fine - it's your personal decision, after all. But to pass them off as technical deficiencies of the product just isn't fair.

I can see folks discussing whether or not this light's price / performance makes it meet their needs. That seems fair enough to me. I think it's fair if someone buys one, doesn't like it, and sells it then wants to talk about it after the fact. But what happened here in some cases was, in my opinion, just plain bashing of what sounds to me like a perfectly fine product. (Not to mention some shots taken at a reputable company.)

Personally, unless there is a massive problem with a product or company, I'd rather hear "I bought XXXX instead of YYYY, because of reason ZZZZ," rather than: "I don't like product YYYY." That seems a whole lot more helpful to me - that's certainly why I read the posts here!

BTW, I think innuendo of "conspiracy theories" about the moderators of this forum are really cheap shots and totally uncalled for. Maybe I'm just naive, but what's going on here sure looks a whole lot more like someone's labor of love than a bigtime business.

 

[McGizmo]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

Aside from some old threads on Mag perhaps, have there been other instances where a manufacturer has been brought to task on pricing or business practices and the moderators turned a deaf ear, as it were? Is Streamlight or Pelican or UK bashing going on and being ignored by the moderators? Is Goncz Light..... nevermind..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

In terms of "protection" real or imanginary, if it ever becomes the case that "facts" are not allowed on the forum whether they be positive or negative in charactor, I for one will have a real problem. I would like to think that facts are clearly distinguishable from speculation or inuendo.

There is a rule here on the forum that you are to attack the post and not the poster. I suggest that perhaps if we were to consider a corallery (sp) that suggested that it is also OK to attack the light but not the light maker, perhaps some feathers wouldn't get as ruffled? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

I would also like to point out that the moderators have just as much right to post as members; not in their official role as a moderator. Unless a moderator qualifies a post as that of being an offical "post of moderation" perhaps it helps to consider their post as that of another member and nothing more or nothing less. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

One last "fact" that may have bearing in some of these threads. Many of the moderators, (myself included but I'm not much of a moderator; different subject) are friends of PK's and by extension have a certain closeness to SF. Now PK is one who likes to have his product speak for itself and professionally, he could not come into these threads for many reasons even if he did have the time which I know he doesn't. Now is it any surprise that some of these moderators, including myself, take exception when we personally feel that SF or by extension PK, are getting bashed and we know that neither SF or PK will step up in their own defense? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif There are strengths and weaknesses to all lights and SF's are no exception. There is obvious value with some and questionable or marginal with others and certainly price is the currency with which many of these features are compared. As long as the choice of purchase is ours to make, can we focus on the products and their prices and avoid passing judgment on the unknown and speculations which are really not of our concern?

Well I reread this and it's kind of murky but I hope I made some sense. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif BTW, I have placed this post in my gratitude as an equal member of CPF and not in any other capacity.

 

[Steve C]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

Mixing my messages???

Perhaps.

FWIW, I wasn't bashing anything or anyone; just offering an observation. I own four SureFire lights, and have no question regarding their quality.

I've been a participant in many forums for many years. In my profession, clarity of communication is paramount, be it written, spoken, or perceived. I've learned how to pick up subtle nuances, etc., especially on these forums.

Darell, when I first read your post I was rather offended; How dare he tell me I didn't really read what I read? However, I realize that you probably did not intend for me to get that impression (or maybe you did; doesn't matter either way), and in any event you feel strongly regarding the site's impartiality.

Fair enough, and finished business, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Greta]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

I wonder what the response would be if I were to simply say... "Yeah... the administration of this site supports and defends Surefire and it's products 100% because they have bought and paid for us (me!) and I will not allow any kind of bad-mouthing or bashing of the company or it's products to take place on my board." ...

Ok... so now I've said it... POSTED it even!!! It's a flat-out lie... but hey! since when has that ever stopped anyone from carving it in stone and touting it as the gospel? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

So now can we all move on? You've got what you want... although a lie... but it should still make you happy... right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif

 

[sithjedi333]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

This thread has gotten so off topic it's not even funny.

Turning to baseless accusations of mods and admins... great.

Now, about that U2...

 

[McGizmo]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

Steve C,

Unfortunately we are all tempered by our experiences and some of us respond with a "history" if you will that predates your membership here and has been seasoned by previous threads. None the less, the History or what some might call baggage should not get in the way of current discussions. I know I am guilty of posting here in this thread with a carry over from other current as well as past threads and as a result, "tagged" the subject of this thread likely unfairly to Gensing.

Since this and my last post were both off topic, I'll end with the reason I won't be buying a U2 is because I already now have 2 and see no need for another at present. Buying one as a spare or to stick in the glove box is hardly justifible given the cost of these!! Heck, I have back ups to back ups and could likely arm the neighbor hood with expensive flashlights should the need arise! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

 

[tvodrd]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

I've stayed out of these 2 "trainwrecks" but could'nt help lurking. It gives some insight into some of the players here.

I will add why I will not be buying an Aleph3-



















Cuz Don gave me a -3 head to go with the Aleph2 flashlight I lucked-out and won in the raffle. (Farthest "throwing" LED light I own!!!!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif

Larry

 

[Steve C]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

<<...You got what you want...>>

??????????????????

Goodness, Sasha; take a chill pill. Have a drink. Relax.

 

[Greta]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

Steve... might I suggest the same? Seems as if that's what you all were looking for. Some kind of admission... some kind of "proof" of a major conspiracy involving pay-offs by Surefire to the CPF admins and mods. So I gave it to you. What? That's not what you wanted? Hmmmmm... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif ... coulda fooled me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

 

[Ginseng]

The End

Well,

I dropped out of this thread (which I innocently started so long ago) around the middle of page 2. I knew that once people started equating flashlights to Ferraris, we'd have a problem. In any case, from the sounds of it, I'm better off for having avoided this mess.

Acknowoledgement goes to McGizmo for recognizing that this whole debacle might have been unfair in some way.

I wouldn't mourn if this thread just ended here and now as none of my original intent remains.

Wilkey

 

[cy]

Re: Why I won\'t be buying a SureFire U2

Ok that does it, I'm buying a U2.

Oh wait, I'm way over my flashlight allowance. just recently purchased an M6, Barbolight, 3x ARC color first runs, MR-X X3T, FF2, lugged ARC AA, black bird w/hanger, eouchaaaa...

now the tuff part is deciding what lights to sell off, so I can pay for U2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Icebreak]

Re: The End

I Googled... List + Class + Act + People. Ginseng was on the list.

If anyone sees Gracie around here, tell her I said, g'nite.

- Jeff

 

[IlluminatingBikr]

Re: The End

I won't be buying a U2 because....
it's too expensive for me,
it's too large for me,
and my L4 works for me.

It's sad a thread about flashlights has turned out to be a thread about politics.

 

[Brock]

Re: The End

Closed at Ginseng's request