It seems we are lacking of real new flash lights nowadays.

Looking at what those newly released flash lights we have now,
everything seems to be just like the other light, with the same battery, the same control UI, even the same body shape and size!

come on guys, give me a flash light with a new LED, a deep reflector for throw( and make OP reflectors for less throw more flood) and infinite brightness levels, running on 18650 or bigger.

stop the 16340 + xml combo.

what are you running the 16340 cells at?

why discharge them at higher then 2C?

isn't using 18650 discharging at 1-1.5C a lot safer? and you have a lot more runtime to boot.

as well as more body mass, those 16340 lights are tiny.
heat don't do well in tiny bodies IMHO.

I cannot agree more with you. I really miss few years ago when each flashlight released was unique and special. But I think nowadays manufacturers release hundreds of similar model flashlights because of these main reasons:

Flashlight market have grown. Not every customer understands the parameters involved in a led flashlight, they don't care about killing the battery at 2C, overheating the LED, angle and pattern of beam, efficiency of the board, etc. They jump in and shout "LUMENS", and buys the brightest and smallest flashlight they can find.

Most of those lights you refer to are made by Chinese manufacturers, and they usually don't make their own products, only design them and sell them. probably based on a generic design...

Flashlight prices are way too high. 3 years ago i paid about $130 for the eagletac M2XC4 3xR2. In its time it was one of the brightest and longest throwing light you could buy. It had a ring for changing modes, it was efficient. Now manufacturers wants to charge $250 for a light that is not much more advanced except for the LED. They want to charge more only because the flashlight is "smart", smart is just a fancy word for "electronically controlled". ​

richardcpf said:

I cannot agree more with you. I really miss few years ago when each flashlight released was unique and special. But I think nowadays manufacturers release hundreds of similar model flashlights because of these main reasons:

Flashlight market have grown. Not every customer understands the parameters involved in a led flashlight, they don't care about killing the battery at 2C, overheating the LED, angle and pattern of beam, efficiency of the board, etc. They jump in and shout "LUMENS", and buys the brightest and smallest flashlight they can find.

Most of those lights you refer to are made by Chinese manufacturers, and they usually don't make their own products, only design them and sell them. probably based on a generic design...

Flashlight prices are way too high. 3 years ago i paid about $130 for the eagletac M2XC4 3xR2. In its time it was one of the brightest and longest throwing light you could buy. It had a ring for changing modes, it was efficient. Now manufacturers wants to charge $250 for a light that is not much more advanced except for the LED. They want to charge more only because the flashlight is "smart", smart is just a fancy word for "electronically controlled". ​

Click to expand...

i agree, the prices of lights now are quite high.

come on china, stop copying one another and come up with something new first!

LOL

Its like the stock market...it ALWAYS goes UP...but, if your field of view is too small, and you focus on one slice of the time line, it can go up or down, or be level, etc.

You are looking at too small a slice.

Innovations are typically incremental. One guy comes up with a circuit improvement, or a better algorithm, and another guy says "hey, I can use that to solve a problem...", and he then comes out with a better spring, that ANOTHER guy then sees, and makes a better mousetrap.

I actually see far wider choices now than when I started. That was during a plateau where the Cree XR-E/SSC P4 was king and the one new wave was the P7/MC-E. All of those were based on the same die. After a crazy period where 5mm LEDs gave way to Luxeons and then the Cree sheer output stabilized.

We've got some economic issues pushing a period of stability now. LED manufacturers are continuing to push towards improvements that are better for the bigger room lighting market than flashlights. High energy prices make aluminum (which requires a lot of electricity to produce) more costly. A weak global economy tends to push light makers to safer designs in a weaker marketplace so they get return on investment.

Overall I see far more choices in the market than when I started though. UIs offer a lot more choices now. Interface options are incredibly diverse compared to then. Neutral or warm options in production lights aren't common now but far more common than they were. The range of LEDs being used in production lights is wider with differences in beam pattern, color temp, and CRI being used to differentiate lights. Economic effects may be pushing less innovation but the market itself is much more diverse.

I'm not so sure I agree either. I mean, some of the things you cite may not ever change -- basically cylindrical bodies ("same body shape") I think are a proven winner. Beyond that, we have a ton of choice. Yes, cr123-sized lights dominate, but that's because, for the vast amount of people, that's a great sized EDC. I can understand how, if you personally don't like this size, you might be frustrated. But for most of us, this is a really REALLY exciting time, given what's happening in lights that size. Even so, there's tons of choices in 18650, including lots of lights that support 18650, or 17670, or 2xCR123, or 2xRCR.

For me, I think the biggest and most important improvement from years ago is the UIs. Years ago, almost all multi-mode lights had the same UI. Click-click-click to get to the level you want. if you now want the preceding level, click-click-click-click-click around all levels to get back to it. If you turn the light off, then immediately need to turn it on again ... it switches level. For me, this is the "our engineers aren't even trying" UI. There are still lots of lights that use that UI, but for those of us for whom that UI does not match our usage patterns, there are more choices than ever. The control ring has finally been done right in the past few years, with a great amount of resistance and travel, and non-linear light output. In clicky interfaces, we still see innovation -- Klarus's awesome XT two-button interface, especially for those for whom defensive use is a factor. Programmable UIs. Etc. ETc. For me, UIs continue to be one of areas for which innovation is continuing apace, and continues to be ripe for innovation. These days, I have a zillion lights, and the #1 thing that gets me to buy a new one anyway is a UI that I think will work better for me (#2 reason is drastically increased power in the smallest lights).

The problem is that there are no new LED chips coming out for quite a while now.

Although I've heard that Lumious (not sure if spelled right) announced some new round LED chips.

HDS hi cri rotary is a good example of not following the trend, another is McGismo lights. I for one am over chasing the brightest for the size light. Now looking at tint and beam profile, I've also been checking out red LED's.
Don't get me wrong, I'll always have a couple 700+ lumen lights but now I'm searching for the best allrounder. A Nichia 4500k hi cri with an OP reflector and a control ring should do nicely.
Perhaps if HDS came out with a Nichia 4500k rotary with a clip. I might sell off my mule. In the mean time I'll probably be looking to modders to update last years XPG into this years Nichia's

I never get the folks who are always chasing the newest, brightest, smallest, most complicated, etc., and then seem unsatisfied with what they've got. Well sure, that mindset will perpetually leave you hungry, so no matter how much better/faster/brighter/sparklier it is, there will always be something better. That's what advertisers get paid to do. Maybe go for quality rather than quantity: try tracking down the light that best suits your needs, and is the most pleasurable and satisfying to use. I'd rather buy one more McGizmo than a dozen super-bright Sparkle-Fires. Just my thoughts. :shrug:

I think it is perspective about the lights being offered today. I feel there are lots of choices out there. A lot of the user interface methods are already thought up and being produced. Control ring, head twist, dual switch, tail switch, side switch, forward clickie, reverse clickie, etc. There are EDC, weapon mount, key chain and search lights. then we have custom builders for a price.
Most ideas are already out there and there will be few breakthroughs in flashlight design.
Refitting new LED designs and batteries into existing bodies will be the new light for a while.
I'm waiting for a voice activated flashlight. 😜

This is similar to the thread about how flashlight technology has maybe reached its peak. Certainly a plateau IMHO.

As a relative newbie to flashoholism, I will say that it seems odd that as I see interesting lights to buy, I research them and it seems they have the latest this and latest that - but then as I search CPF I find one and two year old posts on something I that was more or less marketed "new". I was surprised to find just how long XM-L emitters have been in circulation.

Right now, when looking for that next "fix", it would seem that "more expensive" is the new innovation.

nbp said:

I never get the folks who are always chasing the newest, brightest, smallest, most complicated, etc., and then seem unsatisfied with what they've got. Well sure, that mindset will perpetually leave you hungry, so no matter how much better/faster/brighter/sparklier it is, there will always be something better. That's what advertisers get paid to do. Maybe go for quality rather than quantity: try tracking down the light that best suits your needs, and is the most pleasurable and satisfying to use. I'd rather buy one more McGizmo than a dozen super-bright Sparkle-Fires. Just my thoughts. :shrug:

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LOL

Faustian Flashaholics?

:thumbsup:

There is still more yet to be done. Lots more. In fact there is a massive jump in performance coming. And soon!

So you need something brighter than an XM-L? Because the light you claim to be waiting for is already available (Sunwayman V20C for 1x18650 or V60C for 3x18650).

saabluster said:

There is still more yet to be done. Lots more. In fact there is a massive jump in performance coming. And soon!

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That sounds very interesting to me Saalbluster,i know you like pushing the limits in your lights so i'm for one definitely going to keep an eye on your soon to be new creation.

Well, I seemed to be perfectly happy with my McGizmo and HDS. Personally I love single CR123, AA, or AAA sized lights for portability. Basically portability and pocketability translate to easy EDC. Other than the Zebralight SC600 which is relatively small for a 18650 light, I only really go for anything more than a single CR123 during my camping and trekking trips.

Okay, some of you are serious - let's briefly review:

Nitecore TM11, Surefire R1, 4Sevens XM18, Niteye EYE25/30, Zebralight SC600, Olight X6, Sunwayman V series, Fenix TK60..

Name a flashlight that was anything like any one of these lights only a year or so ago.

The thing is that currently the innovations are happening in another sector. Building lighting, industrial lighting, street lamps. All running off leds. Single leds, high cri, 50v, 4000 lumens. Single LEDs that can easily compete with 50w hids... Moving diaphram cooling, reliable and long lasting drivers...

Just wait until this tech trickles down.

StarHalo said:

Nitecore TM11, Surefire R1, 4Sevens XM18, Niteye EYE25/30, Zebralight SC600, Olight X6, Sunwayman V series, Fenix TK60..

Name a flashlight that was anything like any one of these lights only a year or so ago.

Click to expand...

...and across a little bit longer timespan, but after years of basically no change look at Maglite. Suddenly lots of new models including a UI based on motion control.