What global warming?
- Thread starter MrTwoTone
- Start date
Help Support Candle Power Flashlight Forum
LightChucker
Enlightened
I know what you are trying to say, and I agree with you. There is a broadcaster out of Florida that was saying that the frost line has been going farther and farther north; so much so that many citrus growers have lost their orchards.
All this climate stuff is cyclical. Ice-Ages come and Ice-Ages go; the idea that humans can have an affect on that with their puny little exhaust pipes and factory chimneys is pretty silly and arrogant. I have heard it said that one volcano produces 100 times the pollution of all the factories and cars in the entire world. Furthermore, there are 100 volcanos erupting every day. Nature is not impressed with our attempts at air pollution.
This is not to say that pollution is not a problem for local areas like Los Angeles and other cities. It only means that we are powerless to change the climate of the entire planet.
Chuck
All this climate stuff is cyclical. Ice-Ages come and Ice-Ages go; the idea that humans can have an affect on that with their puny little exhaust pipes and factory chimneys is pretty silly and arrogant. I have heard it said that one volcano produces 100 times the pollution of all the factories and cars in the entire world. Furthermore, there are 100 volcanos erupting every day. Nature is not impressed with our attempts at air pollution.
This is not to say that pollution is not a problem for local areas like Los Angeles and other cities. It only means that we are powerless to change the climate of the entire planet.
Chuck
greenLED
Flashaholic
MrTwoTone, we are seeing an increase in the *average* global temperature. However, there are very complex spatial patterns that affect this trend. This is why it seems to be getting cooler (and/or wetter) in some parts of the world. On the other hand, there are other regions that are getting warmer (and/or drier). Some places will see a lot of changes, some little. *Overall*, however, the global average temperature is rising (this is due to an increase in the minimum temperature, not necessarily the maximum temperature of a site, to be precise.
LightChucker, you are right, earth's climate is cyclic on a *very* long time scale (thousands and millions of years). Hoewever, the fact that a change has been observed in the last 100-50 years, and it correlates to increased industrial activity is what points to human influence. The *rate of chage* is much, much higher than what has been observed throughout Earth's looong history and provides yet more evidence for linking human activity to global change.
We've had this discussion, most recently in the "Alaska drilling thread", and previously in a thread that got locked. My current research is closely related to mitigating global climate change. I will be glad to clarify the scientific basis of this phenomenon to the best of my ability.
Before I forget, MrTwoTone, with global change being spatially variable, you get larger fluctuations in the weather patters in some areas (ie. drier droughts, heavier storms, sudden changes in rain/drough, etc.). That's a potential explanation for your snow storm.
Links added
Are they going to drill in Alaska?
LightChucker, you are right, earth's climate is cyclic on a *very* long time scale (thousands and millions of years). Hoewever, the fact that a change has been observed in the last 100-50 years, and it correlates to increased industrial activity is what points to human influence. The *rate of chage* is much, much higher than what has been observed throughout Earth's looong history and provides yet more evidence for linking human activity to global change.
We've had this discussion, most recently in the "Alaska drilling thread", and previously in a thread that got locked. My current research is closely related to mitigating global climate change. I will be glad to clarify the scientific basis of this phenomenon to the best of my ability.
Before I forget, MrTwoTone, with global change being spatially variable, you get larger fluctuations in the weather patters in some areas (ie. drier droughts, heavier storms, sudden changes in rain/drough, etc.). That's a potential explanation for your snow storm.
Links added
Are they going to drill in Alaska?
LightChucker
Enlightened
Can't buy it.
Estimated emission of CO2 from vulcanos is 0.6 GT per year, emissions from fossil-fuel were 6.27 GT per year back in 1999 (source: CDIAC of the Oak Ridge National Laboratory).
This is science, so please let's discuss based on facts and reasoning, not based on wishes and feelings.
This is science, so please let's discuss based on facts and reasoning, not based on wishes and feelings.
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Here is a Standford University Solar Studies web site.
Also, Here is a Weather FAQ that I have posted before that discusses Global Warming and the numbers behind it...
-Bill
Also, Here is a Weather FAQ that I have posted before that discusses Global Warming and the numbers behind it...
-Bill
r2
Enlightened
There was an interesting article in Scientific American a month or two ago about cyclic climate change. We should have been descending into an ice age over the past several thousand years based on historic patterns, but human activities like farming and ranching have been increasing greenhouse gases for thousands of years, enough to keep us out of a global freeze. The effect has been magnified tremendously since the industrial revolution.
Climate change, as it is more properly called (others have already pointed out that it doesn't result in uniform warming trends) is pretty much universally accepted amoung the scientific community. The only real opposition are political hacks, usually paid by some lobbying group to fund their "studies" with some political agenda. The media, in its effort to provide balance in reporting, gives disproportionate credit and airtime to the crackpots. After all, there is a shortage of credible scientists denying any human effect on climate, so they have to scrape the bottom of the proverbial barrel to find an opposition viewpoint.
Sorry folks, its not actually a controversy outside the political community. There's plenty to be debated about what should be done, but the question of whether or not humans are affecting the climate has been answered pretty conclusively.
- Russ
Climate change, as it is more properly called (others have already pointed out that it doesn't result in uniform warming trends) is pretty much universally accepted amoung the scientific community. The only real opposition are political hacks, usually paid by some lobbying group to fund their "studies" with some political agenda. The media, in its effort to provide balance in reporting, gives disproportionate credit and airtime to the crackpots. After all, there is a shortage of credible scientists denying any human effect on climate, so they have to scrape the bottom of the proverbial barrel to find an opposition viewpoint.
Sorry folks, its not actually a controversy outside the political community. There's plenty to be debated about what should be done, but the question of whether or not humans are affecting the climate has been answered pretty conclusively.
- Russ
greenLED
Flashaholic
Excellent FAQ, BB. I'll start pointing people to it instead of writing stuff myself over and over. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I concur with your comments, Mark2. It's one thing to debate the facts, and a completely different one to decide what to do about them. The latter is where people get tangled in very quickly.
I concur with your comments, Mark2. It's one thing to debate the facts, and a completely different one to decide what to do about them. The latter is where people get tangled in very quickly.
I thought global warming really leads to global freezing?
Anyhoo, what I would like to know is why are the other planets also experiencing global warming if its our own doing?
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1660 and http://www.blog.speculist.com/archives/000145.html
Anyhoo, what I would like to know is why are the other planets also experiencing global warming if its our own doing?
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn1660 and http://www.blog.speculist.com/archives/000145.html
powernoodle
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
r2 said:but human activities like farming and ranching have been increasing greenhouse gases for thousands of years, enough to keep us out of a global freeze.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats funny. Explain to me how a few nomads in 2800 B.C. were producing so-called greenhouse gases. Their yet-invented diesel tractors? Their goats were releasing methane? You liberals crack me up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
but the question of whether or not humans are affecting the climate has been answered pretty conclusively.
[/ QUOTE ]
More hilarity. Not only is there no conclusive evidence that humans have caused so-called global warming, there is no inconclusive evidence either. Just a few years ago, the anti-capitalist magazine Newsweek did a now-famous cover story on global cooling, which is of course just as specious as global warming. The left should pick one and stick to it.
The farce of global warming was created as a means of thwarting capitalism. Which is why, for example, that the greatest polluters and greenhouse gas producers on earth - the Chinese and the former eastern block soviet states - were not subjected to the Kyoto Protocol. They aren't capitalists, so their greenhouse gases and pollution magically don't contribute to so-called global warming.
When the Soviet Union collapsed (thank you Ronald Reagan), the world's America-hating leftists had to find another means of bashing America - and so-called global warming is it. When they grow tired of it, it will be something else.
Thanks for opportunity to vent my own greenhouse gases. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
best regards
r2 said:but human activities like farming and ranching have been increasing greenhouse gases for thousands of years, enough to keep us out of a global freeze.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats funny. Explain to me how a few nomads in 2800 B.C. were producing so-called greenhouse gases. Their yet-invented diesel tractors? Their goats were releasing methane? You liberals crack me up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
but the question of whether or not humans are affecting the climate has been answered pretty conclusively.
[/ QUOTE ]
More hilarity. Not only is there no conclusive evidence that humans have caused so-called global warming, there is no inconclusive evidence either. Just a few years ago, the anti-capitalist magazine Newsweek did a now-famous cover story on global cooling, which is of course just as specious as global warming. The left should pick one and stick to it.
The farce of global warming was created as a means of thwarting capitalism. Which is why, for example, that the greatest polluters and greenhouse gas producers on earth - the Chinese and the former eastern block soviet states - were not subjected to the Kyoto Protocol. They aren't capitalists, so their greenhouse gases and pollution magically don't contribute to so-called global warming.
When the Soviet Union collapsed (thank you Ronald Reagan), the world's America-hating leftists had to find another means of bashing America - and so-called global warming is it. When they grow tired of it, it will be something else.
Thanks for opportunity to vent my own greenhouse gases. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
best regards
James S
Flashlight Enthusiast
Not unusual at all for this to happen, or at least not unexpected. I forget now how many years between these events they said was normal (they were talking about it on the news this morning), but they definitely happen every so many dozen years. So expect it again just about when you've forgotten again the last time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
gadgetnerd
Enlightened
One of the potential consequences of global warming is disruption to the gulf stream which keeps NW Europe (particularly UK) more temperate than it should be for its latitude. Disruption of the gulf stream might actually lead to far colder temperatures there even though the global average would increase.
Why do people equate scientific concern over human induced climate change with leftist America-bashing? Bash Aussies too, our government refuses to sign onto Kyoto as well...
Why do people equate scientific concern over human induced climate change with leftist America-bashing? Bash Aussies too, our government refuses to sign onto Kyoto as well...
powernoodle
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
gadgetnerd said:
Bash Aussies too, our government refuses to sign onto Kyoto as well...
[/ QUOTE ]
No one is bashing Aussies (which should be obvious). American refused to sign the protocol as well. With good reason.
What I was pointing out was that those who supported the Kyoto Protocol ignored the world's biggest polluters because they weren't capitalists. Did you ever hear of someone opposed to so-called global warming chastize China (the worst of the worst)? Me neither. That says it all.
best regards
gadgetnerd said:
Bash Aussies too, our government refuses to sign onto Kyoto as well...
[/ QUOTE ]
No one is bashing Aussies (which should be obvious). American refused to sign the protocol as well. With good reason.
What I was pointing out was that those who supported the Kyoto Protocol ignored the world's biggest polluters because they weren't capitalists. Did you ever hear of someone opposed to so-called global warming chastize China (the worst of the worst)? Me neither. That says it all.
best regards
NewBie
*Retired*
Powernoodle
Beyond normal emissions, China is pumping huge amounts of soil into the air as they devastate their forests, turning them into barren land, which storms whip up the soil into the air, much like the big dust storms we had here in America decades ago.
It's cool to see the yellow dust stretch from China to Canada, Washington, and Oregon on the satelite maps.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s624.htm
Beyond normal emissions, China is pumping huge amounts of soil into the air as they devastate their forests, turning them into barren land, which storms whip up the soil into the air, much like the big dust storms we had here in America decades ago.
It's cool to see the yellow dust stretch from China to Canada, Washington, and Oregon on the satelite maps.
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s624.htm
jtice
Flashaholic
Yea, I think the whole Global warming thing is BS.
Theres over a quarter inch of snow outside rightnow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
Theres over a quarter inch of snow outside rightnow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif
cheesehead
Flashlight Enthusiast
Kyoto, that's a bunch of non-sense (and CRAP), I'll drive the biggest car,... no van,... no SUV, I'll see fit, with low gas prices (and thanks to our soldiers in Iraq, it'll stay the same), who will dare tell me not to. Even Bush (our genious president, thinks drilling in Alaska is better than conserving fuel). I agree with Bush, I want Alaska drilled NOW, I want WAR for cheap fuel, I want to drive around the block without feeling guilty for having a 3 ton vehicle, leave that to the STUPID europeans, they are too lazy to fight for "FREEDOM", so let them drive little cars and conserve.
China is doing what we did 100 years ago, but I guess we shouldn't allow them to do the same, otherwise they may catch up, and we don't want that.
China is doing what we did 100 years ago, but I guess we shouldn't allow them to do the same, otherwise they may catch up, and we don't want that.
greenLED
Flashaholic
Cobb & Powernoodle, the greenhouse effect is a natural phenomenon that occurs on any planet with an atmosphere. Depending on the gaseous composition of an atmosphere, there will be more or less energy trapped and the temperature of the planet will be accordingly warmer or cooler.
Powernoodle, methane is one of the many greenhouse gases present in Earth. It is a stronger greenhouse gas than carbon dioide, but it degrades much rapidly. We tend to focus on CO2 when talking about greenhouse (GH) effect because its concentration in the atmosphere is much higher (and its half-life much longer) than othern GH gases.
As I've said before, Earth's climate has a strong spatial component. At the core of global change is a disruption of the Earth's radiation balance (how much energy coming into the planet compared to how much energy leaves it). Part of this disruption causes greater shifts in climate patterns. This is partly the reason why some places get colder, others wetter, others drier. Yes, weather patterns in this planet are very variable, but *overall* the planet is getting warmer. That's the undeniable bottomline.
Sasha, thank you. I'll stick to the facts.
Powernoodle, methane is one of the many greenhouse gases present in Earth. It is a stronger greenhouse gas than carbon dioide, but it degrades much rapidly. We tend to focus on CO2 when talking about greenhouse (GH) effect because its concentration in the atmosphere is much higher (and its half-life much longer) than othern GH gases.
As I've said before, Earth's climate has a strong spatial component. At the core of global change is a disruption of the Earth's radiation balance (how much energy coming into the planet compared to how much energy leaves it). Part of this disruption causes greater shifts in climate patterns. This is partly the reason why some places get colder, others wetter, others drier. Yes, weather patterns in this planet are very variable, but *overall* the planet is getting warmer. That's the undeniable bottomline.
Sasha, thank you. I'll stick to the facts.
[ QUOTE ]
Sasha, thank you. I'll stick to the facts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks green... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Now if we can get cheesehead to read my warning above... and keep in mind that CPF is an international community... maybe he'll edit his post.. which would be the mature thing to do.
Ya know... sometimes I think that some members intentionally try to get threads closed with their post... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Sasha, thank you. I'll stick to the facts.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks green... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Now if we can get cheesehead to read my warning above... and keep in mind that CPF is an international community... maybe he'll edit his post.. which would be the mature thing to do.
Ya know... sometimes I think that some members intentionally try to get threads closed with their post... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
