Not seeing that swagger from the compact HID guys when they ruled the lumens world ;D

[ledmitter_nli]

Looks like the Polarion handheld HID searchlight people have finally been bested and the LED is now starting to rule.

Correct or Wrong?

 

[ven]

I dont know............running for an hour(or so) at full power, HID can still kick LED's a55's in the distance game too.........Thats from an LED guy.

 

[staticx57]

I am guessing the need to qualify it as compact HID answers your question. But this is accurate, development of handheld HID solutions have all but stopped.

 

[FPSRelic]

I dont know............running for an hour(or so) at full power, HID can still kick LED's a55's in the distance game too.........Thats from an LED guy.

Agreed

high output leds are great for bragging rights, but if it can only do it's maximum output for 2 minutes or so before it ramps down either due to thermal or step down regulation, it's not going to compete well with something that gives consistent output for long run times.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

But...but...but...can you set a newspaper on fire with your LED monsters?

Chris

 

[martinaee]

I was actually just thinking about this a few minutes ago coincidentally and stumbled here. Are companies like Surefire going to continue making versions of their crazy military HID throwers for mounting to 50 caliber guns and that kind of thing? Surely some of the newer emitters are surpassing in throw and output what those "hellfighter" HID lights can do. I guess for throw though in that size it's still hard to beat and especially with very accurate color and range from HID. I guess an XHP70 might deliver more output, but probably not more throw without a bigger reflector or some kind of de-doming.

If they aren't surpassed in this generation of new emitters though I feel like surely in the next few years they will be.

 

[Glenn7]

Granted it doesn't have as many lumens as HID's but the new Microfire Excalibur PL20R does 2000 meters using an adjustable Aspheric lens from 1.4-30° which I like as it makes it not just a thrower like the DEFT (also PL20R has 700 lumens of white light Vs DEFT @ 450L with a yellowy/green warm beam)

 

[StarHalo]

I was hoping the HID category in general would follow Stanley's example and create basic, inexpensive spotlights priced for the everyman; if the 35 watt was $70, then the more expensive bulb and more robust battery pack for 70 watts would be ~$200, which I would gladly pay, but it never happened..

 

[ledmitter_nli]

But...but...but...can you set a newspaper on fire with your LED monsters?

Chris

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?409629-TN36UTvn-Pop-Can-King&p=4936953&viewfull=1#post4936953

:naughty:

 

[ledmitter_nli]

Agreed

high output leds are great for bragging rights, but if it can only do it's maximum output for 2 minutes or so before it ramps down either due to thermal or step down regulation, it's not going to compete well with something that gives consistent output for long run times.

I forget which site it came from, but this chart shows the Polarion HID (think it's the PH40) wasn't very good at maintaining it's output at all.

Edit: Here it is, referenced from this CPF post:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...s-comparison&p=4041526&viewfull=1#post4041526

 

[FPSRelic]

I forget which site it came from, but this chart shows the Polarion HID (think it's the PH40) wasn't very good at maintaining it's output at all.

Edit: Here it is, referenced from this CPF post:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...s-comparison&p=4041526&viewfull=1#post4041526

Okay

So what are you comparing this to LED wise?

 

[ledmitter_nli]

^^ How its ramp up to 5000+ lumens loses 40% of its maximum intensity in less than a minute and settles around 3000 lumens.

If you've seen the lights size and its battery size, a comparable setup could be more than well enough achieved with today's LED's except with perhaps a less collimated hotspot.

 

[BVH]

That plot is showing the initial ignition and boost circuit that almost all HIDs have. Immediately after ignition, they are programmatically over driven for some seconds to stabilize the arc then the boost circuit cuts out or tapers off. The overdriving results in a temporary period of more light. Trying to say that the Polarion in that chart wasn't maintaining its output is a lack of knowledge of how HIDs work. The chart reflects perfectly normal and designed performance.

Unless LED's become so small and bright as to be the same physical size and brightness as an HID arc, then HID's will continue to rule in the Throw category.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

^^ Well knowledge withstanding, the lumens maintenance numbers are underwhelming. I already mentioned the LED hotspot would be less collimated. Still, I'll take a wash of 4000+ steady lumens in about the same form factor as the Polarion PH40 anyday.

BTW: Have you seen this 11000 lumen Pop Can thread?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?409629-TN36UTvn-Pop-Can-King

 

[FPSRelic]

Still, I'll take a wash of 4000+ steady lumens in about the same form factor as the Polarion PH40 anyday.

I wouldn't, but I am interested. Which Single LED based light are you talking about that puts out 4000+ lumens in a steady output like the 3000 lumens of steady output shown in the graph above?

I would expect that even the Cree XHP70 would struggle to keep that kind of output without some form of effective thermal management. I'm sure it's doable, I would like more info on it.

BTW: Have you seen this 11000 lumen Pop Can thread?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?409629-TN36UTvn-Pop-Can-King

Yes, that's very impressive. But a light that uses your hand as thermal regulation is not the sort of thing I'd want to take to a work environment.

 

[staticx57]

I wouldn't, but I am interested. Which Single LED based light are you talking about that puts out 4000+ lumens in a steady output like the 3000 lumens of steady output shown in the graph above?

I would expect that even the Cree XHP70 would struggle to keep that kind of output without some form of effective thermal management. I'm sure it's doable, I would like more info on it.

An XHP70 could, but in order to keep it running at that output it would require a body at least equal in size to the Polarion.

 

[NoNotAgain]

Not seeing that swagger from the compact HID guys when they ruled the lumens ...

Try using even the best LED lights at 2000 lumens constant for 30 minutes. Old tech Maxa Beams produce 1800-2000 lumens and 1500 meters plus of throw for hours at a time on portable power. The Polar ion's be it the 40 or 50 watt version run for 60-75 minutes on a single battery. Hellfighters have 3000 lumens and can be powered on portable power BB2590's in excess of 6 hours or vehicle power. Then if you're looking for huge throw, the Lemax superpower with over 5000 lumens and 1800 meters of throw is presently the king.

 

[ledmitter_nli]

I wouldn't, but I am interested. Which Single LED based light are you talking about that puts out 4000+ lumens in a steady output like the 3000 lumens of steady output shown in the graph above?

I would expect that even the Cree XHP70 would struggle to keep that kind of output without some form of effective thermal management. I'm sure it's doable, I would like more info on it.

SureFire has their proprietary single die 5000+ lumen SureFire Annihilator. But the output is green.

I think an XHP70 around 2,600+ lumens and perhaps more with later bins can get us up there. Ii haven't seen a single white light emitter doing 4000 lumens. Also lets not forget the Polarion's large battery and host size, so thermal management should be better if an XHP70 based light is built in the Polarion's size range.

Yes, that's very impressive. But a light that uses your hand as thermal regulation is not the sort of thing I'd want to take to a work environment.

It's 11K+ lumens in a soda can form factor. what else can one expect? of course there's drawbacks but if you think of it as a miniature prototype it sure as hell delivers as a proof of concept needs a bigger host and fat 32650 batteries.

 

[ven]

The acebeam k60 would be a good example of xhp70 use, 4500lm on full tilt and will run well if the ambient temp is not too high. Lower level 5 iirc 4000lm is pretty much good to run, just the throw can not match HID

 

[ledmitter_nli]

^^ A single XHP70 is really that far up there? wow! I'm a bit too lazy to look up the recent data sheets (lost interest in super high lumens) but that-is-cool-to-hear. :thumbsup: