Attn. handgunners...XS Big Dot Sights

[CDP930]

To the handgunners...do any of yall have these sights on a pistol?

I just mounted a set on my M&P (barely) and have yet to get to the range. I have heard mostly good things about them, but a few negatives floating around.

Any feedback, positive or negative, would be appriciated.

Thanks

 

[DaFABRICATA]

I have the XS Big Dot on my M&P 360 and no complaints.
Its very to see at night, even under moonlight.

My Kimber 1911 has the Meprolites Night Sights and are very bright and easy to see as well.

Overall, I am completely happy with them and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[CDP930]

Good to hear. I am hoping for the best.

 

[mrartillery]

Seen them but never used them, I use Trijicon on my Glocks. 😎

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

Seen them but never used them, I use Trijicon on my Glocks. 😎

Ditto. However, I'm happy with my Trijicons.

 

[CDP930]

Took them out and I must admit, they are different. I like them however I can tell that they are not for everyone.

Another minus is the M&P series, or the "Express" series, only has the front sight with tritium. The rear is only a white line with no tritium insert.

Overall not a bad sight.

 

[Patriot]

I think it's a nice "hi vis" low light sight but makes a poor "target" sight. Additionally the tritium front only option on some models is a problem for me and many other industry people who have opinions about front only visible sights. Front only visible is fine for very close range but it becomes a handicap at intermediate distances, unless you have some ambient light to see the rear white line. Quality wise, they look fine.

 

[Per-Sev]

I had a S&W model 60 .357mag with a 3'' barrel and that was my carry gun I had a Big Dot mounted on the front sight and I found that for self defense where you need to find your sight fast it worked good but for shooting small paper targets not so good but OK for the bad guy targets. They are designed for fast front site acquisition and at close range you don't even need to use the rear sight just put the dot center mass and pull the trigger at least that is the theory of course if you don't practice shooting fast then nothing will help you.

 

[750.356]

I've had a 24/7 set (with front and rear tritium) riding on my EDC Glock 17 for 3 years now. All day, every day. I've logged just under 7,000 rounds of shooting with them installed.

XS Big Dots are perhaps the most polarizing piece of shooting/self defense gear ever devised. There's a very controversial instructor/ training outfit in particular that's been pushing them for years. Andy Stanford of OPS, author of 'Surgical Speed Shooting' (pretty much the BIBLE of practical shooting fundamentals, IMO) endorses and uses them. On the flip side, there are a lot highly respected trainers that think they completely hamstring your potential for accurate hits at speed (Todd Green comes to mind, an absolutely phenomenal shooter).

I love them. I don't forsee myself carrying paper-shooting sights ever again.

These are gunfighting sights. They are designed to quickly and accurately index your handgun on a moving threat that's trying to kill you. They are incredibly fast to pick up, especially when you have the decreased short-range visual acuity that you get under stress. They are more than accurate enough to place hits at long ranges.

To me, there's almost a zen-like quality to using them. There's no examining a front sight post, checking its position in a notch, lining up the top edge, ensuring an equal amount of light on both sides of the post, etc...

With Big Dots, my mental monologue is simply a very fast mantra of "DOT, press, reset, DOT, press, reset". It's an unthinking, caveman state of being. It's almost like going on autopilot. You cover the target with the dot, and you'll send a hole through it, period (provided you have solid marksmanship fundamentals). While you're quickly breaking cover from behind a barricade, shooting from an awkward position, or hauling *** on the move while shooting, there's typically no need to stress about the position of the rear sight. Just use the dot like you would an Aimpoint on a long gun (though your focus is still on the dot, not on the target like one uses an Aimpoint).

All that said, I've seen a couple people that have absolutely abysmal performance using them. In my opinion, both had less than stellar markmanship fundamentals to begin with. The point is, they're not for everybody. Comparing them with traditional notch and post sights by shooting drills with a shot timer is the best way to give them an honest asessment.

 

[Diesel_Bomber]

I think it's a nice "hi vis" low light sight but makes a poor "target" sight.

That's great, that means they were properly designed. They're combat sights, designed for fast acquisition of a moving target in low light, and are more than accurate enough for center mass hits at any reasonable handgun range. They are not target sights.

 

[Patriot]

That's great, that means they were properly designed. They're combat sights, designed for fast acquisition of a moving target in low light, and are more than accurate enough for center mass hits at any reasonable handgun range. They are not target sights.

Yeah, I always make the clarification because some people purchase them (speed sights of any type) then head to the range twice a week and wonder why they shoot more accurately with their (insert name of other handgun here). I see it a couple of times per week actually.

After reading this thread I borrowed a set of XS equipped guns (XDM and S&W 340) and gave them another try.

750.356 made an excellent post and he knows what he's talking about. That said, my personal opinion is that it's an advanced sight that will work best for people who have a speed shooting back ground. This assumes that you have some practical pistol experience and are capable of performing the consistent drills needed to determine what's best.

Everybody's eye/brain circuitry is slightly different so it's possible that an average decent shooter could pick up a 24/7 equipped pistol and excel with it but I would say this would be the exception and not the norm.

I think that my own personal problem in using the 24/7 is the distance between the central trit and the top of the round edge when firing at longer range...a 20 yard head shot on a standard IPSC target for example. There's something in my brain that tells me that I want to place the central dot where I want point of impact but doing this on a small target with nothing but air behind it, covers the target completely. If I transition to the rounded top edge of the front perimeter of the dot, my shot normally impact low. This brings into play another issue. How does one decide when he's going to "shoot the dot" or shoot off the top. Does that occur at 16 yards but not 17 yards? It seems to me that you don't really know until your sight is on the target, at which point you make a snap decision.

To put this effect into perspective, it would be like having an "aimpoint" with 4MOA dot combined a non-transparent 20MOA white ring surrounding the illuminated dot. Obviously this simplified illustration would be blazing fast on large or close range targets but will cause some problems on smaller or more distant targets. Shooting from the top of the 20MOA white ring in this case would cause your rounds to hit low. I was just thinking how difficult this system would be to explain to someone who is a relatively new shooter.

Could this ever be a liability in a defensive situation? I would say not usually, but some percentage level still exists. A hostage situation for example in which you had a very small target could present a problem. With a conventional "top of blade" point of impact, there isn't any guess work.

Your thoughts 750.356? .... or anyone else who as used this system some.

 

[750.356]

This brings into play another issue. How does one decide when he's going to "shoot the dot" or shoot off the top. Does that occur at 16 yards but not 17 yards?

I almost never shoot off the top. 99.9% of my handgun shooting is covering the intended POI with the dot/center tritium. XS recommends the "shoot off the top" sight picture for shooting at 25 yards and out. My experience however, with my handgun, is that it doesn't work. My rounds are still impacting in the center tritium at 25 yards. Like you, if my POA is the top edge of the dot, I'm hitting low. This is probably gun/ chambering/ammo dependent, but it's how it is with my G17. Getting out to really far ranges is where I use the top-edge POA.

At 15 yards, I'm comfortable taking head shots on a standard IDPA target with the normal sight picture, as there's still plenty of 'head' visible to center the dot.

At 20 yards, the dot is completely covering the head. Hits can be made by indexing the IDPA target's shoulders between the sides of the dot and rear sight... but shots have to be taken slowly and deliberately. Accuracy and speed are suffering at this point.

At 25 yards, forget about it. I'm guessing about the dot's relation to the target's head. If I use the 'top edge' POA. I'm hitting the neck or upper body.

Big dots are NOT optimal for precise hits on small targets at distances where the dot completely covers the target. Pistol-training.com's "dot torture" drill is another example of this. At 3-4 yards the big dots work great. Once you start getting to 5+ yards away, the front sight starts completely obscuring those tiny little circles.

This is a limitation of the sight system that must be understood. Can I make better hits on a 20-yard IDPA target's head, or a 'Dot torture' drill @ 6 yards using a set of Heinie Straight-Eights? Yes. Do I think that's more important than the Big Dot's usefulness for putting effective rounds in the middle of torsos as fast as I can press and reset the trigger? No. YMMV, though.

I've seen some incredible shooters using XS Big Dots. I've also seen incredible shooters using traditional notch and post sights. None of them are guys that you want to be on the receiving end of in a gunfight. All of them have the talent, skill and training to place very fast, accurate hits into your boiler room with a handgun. Would changing up their sighting system alter this significantly? Probably not.

The important thing is to get a system you're comfortable with, and TRAIN WITH IT.

 

[cy]

M&P 360 came stock with std XS not big dot.

did you upgrade to big dot and if so how does it compare to std size XS?

getting ready to order a set of XS sight for my 340PD.... torn between std or big dot. word is XS recommended big dot, but S&W chose std dot anyways.

from what feedback I can find, folks are saying std dot mimic stock front sights in width. so shots over 7 yds are better off with std dots. close in big dot is Superior.

leaning towards a standard dot like what S&W uses on M&P. was really impressed with how XS std dot looked like on M&P 340.

I have the XS Big Dot on my M&P 360 and no complaints.
Its very to see at night, even under moonlight.

My Kimber 1911 has the Meprolites Night Sights and are very bright and easy to see as well.

Overall, I am completely happy with them and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[DaFABRICATA]

cy,

My bad! DOH...I think you are right that they are the standard.
Didn't mean to be spreading misinformation..

M&P 360 came stock with std XS not big dot.

did you upgrade to big dot and if so how does it compare to std size XS?

getting ready to order a set of XS sight for my 340PD.... torn between std or big dot. word is XS recommended big dot, but S&W chose std dot anyways.

from what feedback I can find, folks are saying std dot mimic stock front sights in width. so shots over 7 yds are better off with std dots. close in big dot is Superior.

leaning towards a standard dot like what S&W uses on M&P. was really impressed with how XS std dot looked like on M&P 340.

 

[cy]

base only on holding a M&P 340 and pointing without firing.
really like how the standard XS sights pointed.

lots of folks raving about the big dot... especially XS factory folks who really pushes the big dot ... seems the std dot is only grudgingly there. evidently S&W came to the conclusion std dot is better for M&P 340 ...

unless some new information pops up. my plans are to order the std dot soon.

cy,

My bad! DOH...I think you are right that they are the standard.
Didn't mean to be spreading misinformation..