HID questions for the pros

[NocturnL]

Hi everyone !

I am looking to purchase an HID handlight with some serious horsepower. The main use of this light will be for firefighting activities, but I want to ask the pros a couple of questions first.

The light that has peaked my interest is the XeRay 50 Watt. Expensive yes, but I figured why not buy the best ?

After all that I have read, I have two concerns about this light -
1. Is this light not the best choice due to the explosion hazard of the Li-ion battery ?

2. If the battery will survive without exploding, will the light and it's HID components be able to take the bumps and impacts of this activity ?

I know Streamlight makes an HID for firefighting, but the weight is excessive, and the output is not all that.

Anyone have another recommendation that I may not be aware of ? Much thanks !

 

[Patriot]

Hello NocturnL and welcome!


The Xeray50W and Polarion 40W, 45W & 50W HID's definitely have the "horsepower" over the most other factory offerings. The Xeray is one of the finer lights available but not necessarilly "the best." HID lights get even more expensive and come in full aluminum chassis such a the Polarion and Surefire products but they're about double or more the price of the Xeray. The Xeray is a nice light if you don't need to have a "water proof" light and any "water proof" HID light which would serve your purposes starts about about $1000.

You really have to decide what's the most important quality whether it be sheer output, high level of water resistance, price, etc. The batteries really aren't a critical factor with the question regarding explosion. Li-ion batteries can have problems if they're over discharged upon recharging but good protection circuits pretty much eliminate any real world issues in this regard. Some Li-ion lights are UL783 & IP68 certified making them safe for explosive environments so li-ion lights in themselves are not dangerous. Instead, the typical concern to most people when choosing a li-ion light is the price since this technology is more expensive. Often li-on or li-po is about twice the capacity for about half of the weight of otheir types of energy storage.

Since price isn't really a factor for you, I'd go for any li-ion that that has the other qualifications that you find necessary. If you need a factory light that's over 35W you choices are pretty limited to Xeray and Polarion. If you can settle for a 35W light it opens the doors to many quality choices for less money. Lights like the L35 from Battery Junction and ACRO RL-11 from Magnalight are both quality li-ion based lights which cost well under $400. The N30 also from Battery Junction, uses a NiMh battery but costs less than $200. All three of these lights are far smaller and lighter than the Streamlight HID that you mentioned, called the LiteBox and all use better battery technology. A man could easily attach a one of these lights to his personal harness without it being unwieldy.

Again if you can do with a 35W light but run-time and water proofing is important the RL-12 from Magnalight is a nice 35W light which offers 3 hours of run-time and designed for diving so you know it's going to be robust. Rob at Magnalight speaks very highly of it.

There are four different lights to consider as well as the Xe50 and all have their strong points. For example, if having more than one unit was important you could outfit the department with 4 N30's for the price of one Xe-50. If quantity isn't important and you just want one great light regardless of price the Xe-50 is a powerhouse. If you need a waterproof powerhouse in a metal chassis the Polarion lights are a great way to go.

I hope this helps.

Paul

 

[bullettproof]

Being a Former Medic I think you should get a AE Xenide it will be probably the best served light for you in regards to Firefighting.Its built like a TANK not to heavy and puts out plenty of power with excellent run time.

 

[Patriot]

Being a Former Medic I think you should get a AE Xenide it will be probably the best served light for you in regards to Firefighting.Its built like a TANK not to heavy and puts out plenty of power with excellent run time.

+1 to that, if you don't need the output of even a 35W HID.


I'm not sure what lights you are used to but 25W hid's are often typically brighter that most lights people have experienced.

 

[bullettproof]

+1 to that, if you don't need the output of even a 35W HID.


I'm not sure what lights you are used to but 25W hid's are often typically brighter that most lights people have experienced.

I have had my fair share of running around in Bunker gear and riding the Box.The AE Xenide is really designed for hard use. I belive it would take a beating better then a lot of others and its very well protected by design. If you havent had an HID before the power is unbelivable compared to LED's. The average is about 65 Lumens per 1 Watt.The Xenide also has a Smooth Reflector which really is made for throw. I would say it has an excellent working range of 700 Yards or less.However I can see the beam at 900 yards. I dont consider it a working beam at that distance.You can also get a diffuser lens for it so that it would give you lots of flood light.You have the best of both worlds with the Xenide and its best suited for rough use.

 

[BVH]

In my humble opinion, I don't believe any 24/25 Watt HID is actually useful beyond 250 Yards - if that. Look at the pics of Shootout 4 from Mtbkndad. None of the 24/25 Watt lights reached the bottom crossbar of the tower 250 Yards away - and that is with the cumulative light gathering ability of a camera which the eye cannot do. Sure, the hot spot does technically "hit" the target but the amount of light it hits it with is not enough to be useful. Even some of the 35 watt lights struggled to hit the crossbar. 50 watt lights, yes, no question. You can really use them at this distance.

Seeing targets lit up by our HID's a long distances in our beam shot photos is not the same as seeing and being able to use the light at these long distances.

 

[bullettproof]

This is an AE 24W I have the Xenide which is 25W it might be a little better then this photo.I think the AE is a good all around light deffinately not the brightest. I would say the build quality is on par for what you need.No offense to anyone unless you have run into a burning House/Building or worked Mulitple Trauma Accidents, its kind of hard to say what works best for this type of work.Considering AE has lots of different difuser lenses which would be very good for seeing through smoke and working in other inviroments is a big plus for the work hes doing.Now Im not saying there isnt better HID lights.Im saying for the price point and qaulity of the Xenide it will hold up to your abuse as a Firefighter.If you want to spend another 1800 over the AE and get a Polarion PH50 go ahead.I think its an awesome light and would be a great light if your on a SARS team or something of that nature.

319 Yards AE 24W Patriots pic.

 

[Patriot]

I really tend to agree with you bulletproof about how the AE lights have that durability factor thing going on. In a way they remind me of a really expensive version of that old 4D mag that sometimes bounced around behind the seat or even in the bed of my pick-up truck.


Regarding range and performance BVH is spot on for about 90% of the real work urban scenarios encountered. I consider the Xenide25 a 200-300 yard light in most circumstances around the area where I live. Effective beam ranges are always a really difficult thing to grasp, nail down, or put into perspective because there are so many variables. I recently started a new project spurred on the JetBeam's claim of a 500 yard LED light. I know that the claim is ridiculous by all practical means but just how does one convey that to another person who possibly hasn't quite the working performance knowledge of lights in the field? The other thing that triggered my investigative project is this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226131

Obviously a 25W HID is capable of projecting some photons to 500, 800, even over a 1000 yards or more. If a receiving instrument or retina can see the light shined at them over any distance then light photons are in fact traveling that far. The big question is what is an effective amount of light or what is useful, and by those figures can one reasonably give a fair estimate for the practical working distance of a particular light? I think it can be done and what I've found so far is that ambient light plays the largest role. I've personally experienced the Xenide25's beam at over 500 yards but it was during a very dark night in the northern AZ forest 70 miles from any major town or city. The humidity was less than 10% and air particulates were minimal. About three weeks ago at the park I was disappointed with the same light at 215 yards! At first I thought something was the matter with the light but after checking, everything was fine. The perceived poor performace was a result of city lights, floating dust in the air, and my own eyes which didn't have time to adapt to the darkness, since 8 or 10 minutes earlier I was in a well lit house. People in the forums usually give range estimate of their lights during the best case scenarios but it's often not representative of daily life with our lights. That's why I consider the Xenide25 a 200-300 yard light as a general, practical reference.

bulletproof
In the photo that you posted, that image is not only over exposed by 2-3 stops, but it's also telephoto to about 180-200mm (35mm equivalent). In other words, you're seeing it 2-3 time brighter and 3-4 time closer than what the human eye is capable off. I intended that picture to be a comparison to another light only and not an example to replicate what the eye actually sees. Hope that makes sense.

 

[bullettproof]

I really tend to agree with you bulletproof about how the AE lights have that durability factor thing going on. In a way they remind me of a really expensive version of that old 4D mag that sometimes bounced around behind the seat or even in the bed of my pick-up truck.


Regarding range and performance BVH is spot on for about 90% of the real work urban scenarios encountered. I consider the Xenide25 a 200-300 yard light in most circumstances around the area where I live. Effective beam ranges are always a really difficult thing to grasp, nail down, or put into perspective because there are so many variables. I recently started a new project spurred on the JetBeam's claim of a 500 yard LED light. I know that the claim is ridiculous by all practical means but just how does one convey that to another person who possibly hasn't quite the working performance knowledge of lights in the field? The other thing that triggered my investigative project is this thread:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226131

Obviously a 25W HID is capable of projecting some photons to 500, 800, even over a 1000 yards or more. If a receiving instrument or retina can see the light shined at them over any distance then light photons are in fact traveling that far. The big question is what is an effective amount of light or what is useful, and by those figures can one reasonably give a fair estimate for the practical working distance of a particular light? I think it can be done and what I've found so far is that ambient light plays the largest role. I've personally experienced the Xenide25's beam at over 500 yards but it was during a very dark night in the northern AZ forest 70 miles from any major town or city. The humidity was less than 10% and air particulates were minimal. About three weeks ago at the park I was disappointed with the same light at 215 yards! At first I thought something was the matter with the light but after checking, everything was fine. The perceived poor performace was a result of city lights, floating dust in the air, and my own eyes which didn't have time to adapt to the darkness, since 8 or 10 minutes earlier I was in a well lit house. People in the forums usually give range estimate of their lights during the best case scenarios but it's often not representative of daily life with our lights. That's why I consider the Xenide25 a 200-300 yard light as a general, practical reference.

bulletproof
In the photo that you posted, that image is not only over exposed by 2-3 stops, but it's also telephoto to about 180-200mm (35mm equivalent). In other words, you're seeing it 2-3 time brighter and 3-4 time closer than what the human eye is capable off. I intended that picture to be a comparison to another light only and not an example to replicate what the eye actually sees. Hope that makes sense.

Yes it makes since.I no that other lights around will drown out the projected beam and make it not seem as bright and I have noticed that when Ive played around at different places.Theres so many Variables that its would take me forever to type it. However I do think that HID's are best for long range Identification. What I mean by that is can I see a shape of a person at a longer distance then a DBS R2 or P7 950M I belive so.True ID distance is in the eye of the beholder so to say. Each one of us would give a different answer on what distance they perceive identifiable.

 

[Patriot]

No question about that. HID/short-arc has the trophy when it comes to throw.